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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/17/2022 8:31:54 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77870
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Yup.

I remember Ponder’s first season too.

Post #: 3876

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/17/2022 9:25:41 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Yup.

I remember Ponder’s first season too.

I was at the game where T-Jack threw his first pass ...

Post #: 3877

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 2:39:16 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9524
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Not happening

You could read it off of them.

He gone.

coaches have a much more difficult time lying about their players...they know that the players have to be able to trust them, and what they say....with the gm it's understood that he's the salesman, the dealmaker - he's not nearly as close to the players as the coaches are....

o'connell looked like a coach who knew they were moving on from cousins, so he held back on his commitment...he didn't say anything that would make him look bad to the players when cousins is traded....

You guys should qualify it as, "IMO," cause your perception doesn't match a large percentage of others who believe the opposite. I just watched it and I really didn't see a liar up there - and I'd consider myself as at least as perceptive as you guys.

More than anything our bias probably matches our take away.

Now Kwesi, huh ...

i didn't mean that o'connell had lied, i was trying to imply that 'imo' he worded his statements in a way so that he wouldn't lie....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3878

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 3:20:03 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9524
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
O’Connell did say that he will call offensive plays.

Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
O’Connell said they’re going to build a system similar to the offensive system they had in Los Angeles.

Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
Vikings co-owner Mark Wilf has been adamant that Minnesota is not in a rebuild. He doubled down on that today and when I asked him whether that mindset would lead ownership in the direction of keeping Kirk Cousins, this was his answer,

"I certainly do believe and even more so now that we’ve got our leadership here in place that we are built to be successful right away. We feel very confident about that and like you heard before, we’re going to work with Kirk as our quarterback and we’ll move forward from there,

Mark Wilf continued: "But for 2022, for sure, we’re going to be super competitive. Sustained success is the goal and I think we have it with this leadership." (3/3)

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3879

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 4:12:53 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9524
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
if we keep cousins we're going to have to redesign his contract by adding a couple of void years, or extend him to lower his cap hit in 2022, and with a dead cap out in 2023...i don't think our new regime wants any large sums guaranteed beyond 2022....

phil mackey made an interesting comment on Purple Daily, paraphrasing; 'it's interesting how after 10 years in the NFL, kirk cousins best quarterback play is still just a theory.'

I'm cool with keeping cousins on a workable deal in 2022, and I'm also cool with starting kellen mond in 2022....

i would still start to set the table for a bigger quarterback splash in 2023, i.e. trade our '22 1st for a '22 2nd and '23 1st....

between reworking a cousins' deal and converting hunter's roster bonus to a signing bonus we should be able to create about $25m in cap space - while keeping both of them...then we can waive a couple of players and redo a couple of other existing contracts and create another $15m...remember, we're presently $15m in the red....

free agent center $7m, free agent guard $4m, peterson $5m, others....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3880

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 5:06:38 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Not happening

You could read it off of them.

He gone.

coaches have a much more difficult time lying about their players...they know that the players have to be able to trust them, and what they say....with the gm it's understood that he's the salesman, the dealmaker - he's not nearly as close to the players as the coaches are....

o'connell looked like a coach who knew they were moving on from cousins, so he held back on his commitment...he didn't say anything that would make him look bad to the players when cousins is traded....

You guys should qualify it as, "IMO," cause your perception doesn't match a large percentage of others who believe the opposite. I just watched it and I really didn't see a liar up there - and I'd consider myself as at least as perceptive as you guys.

More than anything our bias probably matches our take away.

Now Kwesi, huh ...

i didn't mean that o'connell had lied, i was trying to imply that 'imo' he worded his statements in a way so that he wouldn't lie....

I get it.

Creative truth

Post #: 3881

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 7:37:10 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27378
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Maybe the Vikes should go a similar route to SF, Garapollo/Lance, and go with Cousins/Pickett for one season ?

i think that the new regime is going to like what we've got in mond....

What makes you think that? Your Viking fandom or do you have any real knowledge on the guy?

As far as I know he could be alright or he could be Christian Ponder bad. I have no idea.

it's not my fandom, trust me, mond has most of the characteristics needed to make it - great pocket presence, quick delivery, field vision, anticipation, can hit moving targets....

he just needs a little development and refinement...he already has the ability to play at NFL speed....

I'd love if you were right, but this organization hasn't hit on a drafted QB since Culpepper. So consider me very skeptical that Spielman and Co hit on one on their way out.

Do you remember Culpeppers first year? You could see his athleticism, but he looked like he had never taken a snap from center.

Do you mean his 2nd year? He sat his first year.

I did get to see one of his first games (Live) when he had 3 rushing TDs to beat the bears.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/18/2022 7:44:50 AM >

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3882

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 10:01:53 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28526
Status: offline

WRT Cousins, KOC seemed to be pretty straightforward. If anything KAM kind of muddled through things.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/18/2022 10:08:01 AM >

Post #: 3883

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 11:01:04 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40539
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

So it's pretty much guaranteed we'll be in one of the next 3 SB's.

Some of us will finally get to experience that.

Post #: 3884

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 11:02:57 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40539
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Kevin O'Connell is the chosen one.

I love him like a new puppy and he can do no wrong.

Post #: 3885

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 11:11:21 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9524
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
Kevin O'Connell named Harrison Smith, Eric Kendricks and Anthony Barr by name yesterday when asked about the defense and players that get him excited. Obviously Barr is a pending free agent, but if the Vikings are going to switch their defensive philosophy to more 3-man fronts, Barr thrived in a 3-4 at UCLA, albeit in a different role than what he's played the entirety of his NFL career, and IMO, it'd be difficult for the Vikings to run that sort of scheme w/out a LB like him.

Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
Against the Rams on Dec. 26, Barr had 2 interceptions and six tackles - his best game of the 2021 season. Barr's comments in Week 18 made it seem like he was headed towards UFA, but the way O'Connell talked about him yesterday sounds like the team could want to keep him around.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3886

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 11:19:42 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40539
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Fine. Barr reclamation project it is

Post #: 3887

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 11:40:18 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77870
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Yeah, I'm fine trying Barr in the way that he probably always should've been used.

Post #: 3888

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 12:15:04 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

don't get the Barr hype.

DL and CB is what defense should be based on.

If he wants to sign a low ball offer I guess that works.

Post #: 3889

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 12:21:16 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

don't get the Barr hype.

DL and CB is what defense should be based on.

If he wants to sign a low ball offer I guess that works.

Contract Projection: Two years, $14.5 million ($7.25M per year), $8.5 million total guaranteed

It would need to be lower than this.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 3890

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 12:43:08 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77870
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

don't get the Barr hype.

DL and CB is what defense should be based on.

If he wants to sign a low ball offer I guess that works.

In a 3-4, OLBs are essentially DEs.

Post #: 3891

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 1:14:54 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9524
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

don't get the Barr hype.

DL and CB is what defense should be based on.

If he wants to sign a low ball offer I guess that works.

yes, but in the above scenario, barr becomes micah parsons in the 3-4....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3892

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 1:26:36 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

don't get the Barr hype.

DL and CB is what defense should be based on.

If he wants to sign a low ball offer I guess that works.

yes, but in the above scenario, barr becomes micah parsons in the 3-4....

or still be Barr; overpaid, overhyped, and constantly injured.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 2/18/2022 1:27:59 PM >

Post #: 3893

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 1:57:56 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 12998
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Not happening

You could read it off of them.

He gone.

coaches have a much more difficult time lying about their players...they know that the players have to be able to trust them, and what they say....with the gm it's understood that he's the salesman, the dealmaker - he's not nearly as close to the players as the coaches are....

o'connell looked like a coach who knew they were moving on from cousins, so he held back on his commitment...he didn't say anything that would make him look bad to the players when cousins is traded....

You guys should qualify it as, "IMO," cause your perception doesn't match a large percentage of others who believe the opposite. I just watched it and I really didn't see a liar up there - and I'd consider myself as at least as perceptive as you guys.

More than anything our bias probably matches our take away.

Now Kwesi, huh ...

i didn't mean that o'connell had lied, i was trying to imply that 'imo' he worded his statements in a way so that he wouldn't lie....

O'Connell addressed it the only way a coach could. A coach's place is to deal with the present. Cousins is the starting QB under contract today. That's the hand O'Connell has to play until he's given another hand.

As for questions about commitment to the future, that's a question for a GM, not a coach.

Post #: 3894

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 2:11:25 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9524
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

don't get the Barr hype.

DL and CB is what defense should be based on.

If he wants to sign a low ball offer I guess that works.

yes, but in the above scenario, barr becomes micah parsons in the 3-4....

or still be Barr; overpaid, overhyped, and constantly injured.

it's kind of like cousins' dilemma...we all want to see if the dude can thrive under much better circumstances...barr was created on this earth to play olb in a 3-4 defense for the Minnesota Vikings....

.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 2/18/2022 2:13:21 PM >

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3895

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 2:53:13 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15381
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Yeah, I'm fine trying Barr in the way that he probably always should've been used.

Me, too. He was a perfect 3-4 rush lb who could play the strong side of the line. I’m not a huge fan of the 3-4 alignment, but it should work if we mix it up with 4-3, nickel, and dime packages. It could be fun to watch.

Post #: 3896

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 4:11:50 PM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39208
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Yeah, I'm fine trying Barr in the way that he probably always should've been used.

He hasn't played in that scheme for over 8 years.

Let him go.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 3897

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 6:14:15 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28298
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Maybe the Vikes should go a similar route to SF, Garapollo/Lance, and go with Cousins/Pickett for one season ?

i think that the new regime is going to like what we've got in mond....

What makes you think that? Your Viking fandom or do you have any real knowledge on the guy?

As far as I know he could be alright or he could be Christian Ponder bad. I have no idea.

it's not my fandom, trust me, mond has most of the characteristics needed to make it - great pocket presence, quick delivery, field vision, anticipation, can hit moving targets....

he just needs a little development and refinement...he already has the ability to play at NFL speed....

I'd love if you were right, but this organization hasn't hit on a drafted QB since Culpepper. So consider me very skeptical that Spielman and Co hit on one on their way out.

Do you remember Culpeppers first year? You could see his athleticism, but he looked like he had never taken a snap from center.

Do you mean his 2nd year? He sat his first year.

I did get to see one of his first games (Live) when he had 3 rushing TDs to beat the bears.

No, his second year was a good season. His first year (1999 when Jeff George took over for Cunningham) when he was on the field in preseason is what I'm talking about. Looked like a one-man production of the Keystone Cops.

Post #: 3898

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 7:16:51 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40539
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

With the things KO intends to carry over from LA I wonder if one of them is using top draft stock for vet players. I also wonder what the analytics are in doing so.

Post #: 3899

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/18/2022 8:36:18 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28526
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Not happening

You could read it off of them.

He gone.

coaches have a much more difficult time lying about their players...they know that the players have to be able to trust them, and what they say....with the gm it's understood that he's the salesman, the dealmaker - he's not nearly as close to the players as the coaches are....

o'connell looked like a coach who knew they were moving on from cousins, so he held back on his commitment...he didn't say anything that would make him look bad to the players when cousins is traded....

You guys should qualify it as, "IMO," cause your perception doesn't match a large percentage of others who believe the opposite. I just watched it and I really didn't see a liar up there - and I'd consider myself as at least as perceptive as you guys.

More than anything our bias probably matches our take away.

Now Kwesi, huh ...

i didn't mean that o'connell had lied, i was trying to imply that 'imo' he worded his statements in a way so that he wouldn't lie....

O'Connell addressed it the only way a coach could. A coach's place is to deal with the present. Cousins is the starting QB under contract today. That's the hand O'Connell has to play until he's given another hand.

As for questions about commitment to the future, that's a question for a GM, not a coach.

The follow-up question, trying to drill for specifics, was directed to both of them. KOC answered as you said while KAM mumbled a bit and said ~ "What he said."

Post #: 3900