quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

Interestingly, they did all that without Dan Chisena sprinting and then sprawling and tumbling past the return men. Of course, Chisena was only able to achieve his stellar play because he wasn't unduly burdened by any other contribution to the team. His nine tackles in two years, which clearly no one else on the roster could possibly have made, cost slightly less than $150K per tackle in salary and earned him bonuses of $135K, likely for the several times per year he was able to stay on his feet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kirk has had 4 OCs in 4 years....do you think that is on Kirk or the HC? I think he has performed well even though the changes in coaching and the way the coach treats him were in question his whole time with the Vikings.

I would not restructure and see what he can do in 2022...

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

This team is currently 16 million dollars over the cap for 2022 season.

8 million dollars in dead money to players no longer on the roster, but still getting paid for Spielman contracts.

Currently their are 57 players under contract.

20 player are either outright Free Agents, or in kicker Greg Joseph’s case, he is a RFA.

Both the punter and kicker need contracts or replacements.

KAM AND KOC have a lot of work to do just to field a team, let alone contend for the playoffs.

Spielman and Zimmer used smoke and mirrors, to come up short in wins, playoff appearances and a sustainable roster.

The New Management team has a holy clustermuck of handcuffs, leg irons, ball gags and blindfolds on, with no cap hell reprieve in site.

Some are saying we just need a few things here and there to be in the picture for a run at a Super Bowl..

I see at least 1-2 years of struggling to be competitive under the weight of idiotic contracts.

assuming we keep cousins - we should see these things happen over the next several weeks....

extend cousins to lower his cap, or add ghost years to his existing deal and lower his cap hit in 2022 by about $20m....

extend hunter or change his roster bonus to a signing bonus and lower his cap hit in 2022 by about $15m....

redesign other existing contracts, and/or cut players that will lower our cap hit in 2022 by about $15m....

$20 + $15m + $15m = $50m - $14m = $36m under the 2022 cap


free agents:

center - $8m
guard - $5m
2 - cb's - $12m
thumper linebacker/2down - $2.5m
Anthony Barr - i watched 'locked on vikings' yesterday and the dude explained that if we keep barr we can save 2022 cap space....

leaves us with about $9m for the draft and other things....


kick ass and win Super Bowl

Word is that Cousin's agents have told the Vikings that he won't take a pay cut, and any extension needs to average $40 mil a year. That's a non-starter, so its either a trade or one more year of Kirk at $45 mil. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Vikings are able to move Cousins. If Cousins stays, we're looking at the same o-line issues as last year as there's no way to upgrade. But if we move him, suddenly we can fix the line once and for all, get a bridge QB to stay competitive, and really compete in 2023.

For 2022, one could argue that a lineup that includes Jameis Winston + Brandon Sherff (G) + Brian Allen (C) could be as competitive as Cousins + existing o-line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Well it’s no surprise that cousins is not interested in doing a deal.

He has a winning lottery ticket, all he needs to do is cash it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kirk has had 4 OCs in 4 years....do you think that is on Kirk or the HC? I think he has performed well even though the changes in coaching and the way the coach treats him were in question his whole time with the Vikings.

I would not restructure and see what he can do in 2022...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

Am I understanding this right?

They were 30th in returning punts - not good
They were 4th in yards given up to the opp returning punts - good
Isn't there only a .1 yard difference in this two?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

Am I understanding this right?

They were 30th in returning punts - not good
They were 4th in yards given up to the opp returning punts - good
Isn't there only a .1 yard difference in this two?

Hey, that might be only .1 yard difference, but it is 3 inches plus.

Good eye!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Well it’s no surprise that cousins is not interested in doing a deal.

He has a winning lottery ticket, all he needs to do is cash it.

That's your response to, "Word is that Cousin's agents have told the Vikings ...?"

What happen to your standards?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Well it’s no surprise that cousins is not interested in doing a deal.

He has a winning lottery ticket, all he needs to do is cash it.

That's your response to, "Word is that Cousin's agents have told the Vikings ...?"

What happen to your standards?

What do you want me to do?

Thank him for refusing to try and work a deal?

I’m fine with paying him his contract, then letting him walk.

We need to move on from the shit contracts Spielman handed out..

Player turnover is a normal thing.

Good organizations find younger talent and build on that.

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

We could live and move on from all of them.
Save 26 million in cap.

I think 26 million could do some work in FA.

I don’t hold these players as worthless, well Irv jr. and Stanley,, but the are vastly overpaid for no other reason than ex- coach/ Stan- fan favorites.

Why are we paying Hunter so much money?

He has talent, yes, but how many defensive snaps, versus the amount of money he has been paid, over the past 2 seasons?

C’mon.

125 million dollars of cap tied up in the top six players on over the cap.com
You don’t build a competitive, balanced team, with that kind of overcommitted cap space to six players.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

Am I understanding this right?

They were 30th in returning punts - not good
They were 4th in yards given up to the opp returning punts - good
Isn't there only a .1 yard difference in this two?

Hey, that might be only .1 yard difference, but it is 3 inches plus.

Good eye!

I don’t think you all are making the point you think you’re making.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Cowboys had the 6th ranked ST last year:

5th in avg KR at 24.8
30th in avg PR at 6.6
1st in net punt avg at 45.8
4th in PR allowed avg at 6.5

Am I understanding this right?

They were 30th in returning punts - not good
They were 4th in yards given up to the opp returning punts - good
Isn't there only a .1 yard difference in this two?

Hey, that might be only .1 yard difference, but it is 3 inches plus.

Good eye!

I don’t think you all are making the point you think you’re making.

Then this is where you help us out ... i did ask if I was understanding this correctly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Well it’s no surprise that cousins is not interested in doing a deal.

He has a winning lottery ticket, all he needs to do is cash it.

That's your response to, "Word is that Cousin's agents have told the Vikings ...?"

What happen to your standards?

What do you want me to do?

Thank him for refusing to try and work a deal?

I’m fine with paying him his contract, then letting him walk.

We need to move on from the shit contracts Spielman handed out..

Player turnover is a normal thing.

Good organizations find younger talent and build on that.

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

We could live and move on from all of them.
Save 26 million in cap.

I think 26 million could do some work in FA.

I don’t hold these players as worthless, well Irv jr. and Stanley,, but the are vastly overpaid for no other reason than ex- coach/ Stan- fan favorites.

Why are we paying Hunter so much money?

He has talent, yes, but how many defensive snaps, versus the amount of money he has been paid, over the past 2 seasons?

C’mon.

125 million dollars of cap tied up in the top six players on over the cap.com
You don’t build a competitive, balanced team, with that kind of overcommitted cap space to six players.

I stopped at the bold ... what I was referencing is you ranted about any info regarding our "new" coaching and Twitter being so unreliable yet you take "word is ..." (why, bc it gives you an opportunity to take a shot at Cousins?)

Come on now, big guy - you can own it ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

-----

Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract.

Doesn't belong on your list.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

-----

Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract.

Doesn't belong on your list.

I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

-----

Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract.

Doesn't belong on your list.

I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road.

Interesting thought.

Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

-----

Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract.

Doesn't belong on your list.

I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road.

Interesting thought.

Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense.

the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild....

i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now....

next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

-----

Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract.

Doesn't belong on your list.

I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road.

Interesting thought.

Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense.

the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild....

i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now....

next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown.

Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley?

-----

Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract.

Doesn't belong on your list.