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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 11:17:14 AM

marty

Posts: 12887
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

7 years before we plucked him out of retirement. He was a very different QB with us than with Philly.

The same Cunningham that threw beautiful bombs to Mike Quick and Harold Carmichael, was throwing bombs to Moss in '98, and Jake Reed in '97 playoffs. He just didn't run for 1st downs anymore, probably because if the injury he recieved while in Philly, I think at the hands of a Packer.

He is also the same Cunningham that came up short (like he did in Philly) in '97 playoffs against SF, and the following season against Atlanta, 1st the long wind up and fumble before halftime, and then not engineering a game winning drive in OT.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1651

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 11:21:32 AM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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I am not so sure BJ would have engineered the game winning drive in OT against Atlanta, but he might have. We'll just never know.

I believe the Vikes just needed to be more aggressive and blitzed Chris Chandler, like the Broncos did in the SB, turning him into Crystal Chandelier. He got too comfortable throwing against the Vikings' defense.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1652

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 12:13:08 PM

beo

Posts: 2287
Joined: 3/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am not so sure BJ would have engineered the game winning drive in OT against Atlanta, but he might have. We'll just never know.

I believe the Vikes just needed to be more aggressive and blitzed Chris Chandler, like the Broncos did in the SB, turning him into Crystal Chandelier. He got too comfortable throwing against the Vikings' defense.

John Randle was playing on one leg.

I think all of our starting linebackers were out/hurt.
(although, Robert Griffith did manage to drop an INT in the endzone that HIT HIM IN THE HANDS)

Our defense was decimated... we needed the most prolific NFL offense in history at that time to close that game out... *sigh*

Post #: 1653

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 12:21:25 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am not so sure BJ would have engineered the game winning drive in OT against Atlanta, but he might have. We'll just never know.

I believe the Vikes just needed to be more aggressive and blitzed Chris Chandler, like the Broncos did in the SB, turning him into Crystal Chandelier. He got too comfortable throwing against the Vikings' defense.

John Randle was playing on one leg.

I think all of our starting linebackers were out/hurt.
(although, Robert Griffith did manage to drop an INT in the endzone that HIT HIM IN THE HANDS)

Our defense was decimated... we needed the most prolific NFL offense in history at that time to close that game out... *sigh*

Right.

I'm not even sure we could've fielded a defense for the SB.

Post #: 1654

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 12:53:16 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28272
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

7 years before we plucked him out of retirement. He was a very different QB with us than with Philly.

The same Cunningham that threw beautiful bombs to Mike Quick and Harold Carmichael, was throwing bombs to Moss in '98, and Jake Reed in '97 playoffs. He just didn't run for 1st downs anymore, probably because if the injury he recieved while in Philly, I think at the hands of a Packer.

He is also the same Cunningham that came up short (like he did in Philly) in '97 playoffs against SF, and the following season against Atlanta, 1st the long wind up and fumble before halftime, and then not engineering a game winning drive in OT.

Underthrowing a wide open Moss by AT LEAST 10 yards allowing the DB back into the play in OT.

Post #: 1655

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 12:54:54 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28272
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't even want to see Cousins paired with a good HC, would rather see what Mond, or a 1st round pick next year do.

Let some other unsuspecting team take Cousins next year. Maybe Denver, LA Rams, Indy, or Carolina wants to see what he can do for them.

We need to draft 2 QBs and sign a mid level guy along with Mond. Time to take QB position as serious as Denny did.

What, high draft picks and/or huge FA contracts for Gannon, McMahon, Moon, late rounder Brad Johnson, Cunningham, George, and (the exception) Culpepper?

The OL, WRs, and post-injury Robert Smith defined Green.

In my book, having a 1st team All Pro guy(RC), then drafting a guy #11 overall(DC) and signing ultra talented Jeff George seems like taking the position seriously.

The only time we have taken it as seriously(since then) was with TJack, Rosenfals and Favre.

Signing Cousins wasn't "taking it seriously"? Sam Bradford was easily on the level of many of those Denny moves.

We brought Randall Cunningham out of retirement. No one ever questioned Jeff George's talent, but no one wanted him. He had 1 winning season (9-7) in his 9 year career before we signed him. And as good as he was for us, we didn't even attempt to resign him.

Even drafting Ponder was "taking it seriously". He was the 12th overall pick (TJack was 64th). Heck, if TJack was a serious attempt, what is Mond (pick 66)?

You can take things very seriously and still make really bad decisions. That's basically most of the history of the Vikings regarding the QB position.

And didn't we take two players before Rogers was picked?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/rbui9b/what_is_worst_single_draft_by_one_team

Yes. Superstars Troy Williamson and Erasmus James.

A tale of 2 franchises.

Post #: 1656

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 1:43:51 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
13h
Oops.
Quote Tweet
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 14h
The #Raiders are signing kicker Daniel Carlson to a four-year, $18.4 million extension that includes a $4M signing bonus and $10.2M guaranteed, per source. He’s now the NFL’s third-highest paid kicker. Money bagMoney bag
Mostly Snark
@BoutitDontwry
·
13h
If it makes Vikings fans feel better they would have had to let him leave because of the money anyway

I would rather have Carlson but his and Joseph's stats are pretty close.

Carlson has made 50 for 55 total kicks.

Joseph has made 48 for 55 total kicks.

Post #: 1657

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 1:45:26 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I am not so sure BJ would have engineered the game winning drive in OT against Atlanta, but he might have. We'll just never know.

I believe the Vikes just needed to be more aggressive and blitzed Chris Chandler, like the Broncos did in the SB, turning him into Crystal Chandelier. He got too comfortable throwing against the Vikings' defense.

John Randle was playing on one leg.

I think all of our starting linebackers were out/hurt.
(although, Robert Griffith did manage to drop an INT in the endzone that HIT HIM IN THE HANDS)

Our defense was decimated... we needed the most prolific NFL offense in history at that time to close that game out... *sigh*

Hurt on the very last play of a blowout win against AZ the week before.

Post #: 1658

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 1:50:16 PM

David F.

Posts: 10842
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
13h
Oops.
Quote Tweet
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 14h
The #Raiders are signing kicker Daniel Carlson to a four-year, $18.4 million extension that includes a $4M signing bonus and $10.2M guaranteed, per source. He’s now the NFL’s third-highest paid kicker. Money bagMoney bag
Mostly Snark
@BoutitDontwry
·
13h
If it makes Vikings fans feel better they would have had to let him leave because of the money anyway

I would rather have Carlson but his and Joseph's stats are pretty close.

Carlson has made 50 for 55 total kicks.

Joseph has made 48 for 55 total kicks.

When I look them up I see Joseph is 41 of 48 for his career and Carlson is 96 of 112. Both are about the same percentage still though. 85.7% for Carlson and 85.4% for Joseph. Carlson is 88% since leaving MN so there's that I guess.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1659

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 1:59:38 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
13h
Oops.
Quote Tweet
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 14h
The #Raiders are signing kicker Daniel Carlson to a four-year, $18.4 million extension that includes a $4M signing bonus and $10.2M guaranteed, per source. He’s now the NFL’s third-highest paid kicker. Money bagMoney bag
Mostly Snark
@BoutitDontwry
·
13h
If it makes Vikings fans feel better they would have had to let him leave because of the money anyway

I would rather have Carlson but his and Joseph's stats are pretty close.

Carlson has made 50 for 55 total kicks.

Joseph has made 48 for 55 total kicks.

When I look them up I see Joseph is 41 of 48 for his career and Carlson is 96 of 112. Both are about the same percentage still though. 85.7% for Carlson and 85.4% for Joseph. Carlson is 88% since leaving MN so there's that I guess.

I think Joseph can be the guy for the new regime.

Post #: 1660

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 3:04:49 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
13h
Oops.
Quote Tweet
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 14h
The #Raiders are signing kicker Daniel Carlson to a four-year, $18.4 million extension that includes a $4M signing bonus and $10.2M guaranteed, per source. He’s now the NFL’s third-highest paid kicker. Money bagMoney bag
Mostly Snark
@BoutitDontwry
·
13h
If it makes Vikings fans feel better they would have had to let him leave because of the money anyway

I would rather have Carlson but his and Joseph's stats are pretty close.

Carlson has made 50 for 55 total kicks.

Joseph has made 48 for 55 total kicks.

When I look them up I see Joseph is 41 of 48 for his career and Carlson is 96 of 112. Both are about the same percentage still though. 85.7% for Carlson and 85.4% for Joseph. Carlson is 88% since leaving MN so there's that I guess.

I think Joseph can be the guy for the new regime.

He needs to just clean up his PATs.

Joesph: 89%, Carlson: 96%.

You just can't miss over 10% of your extra points.

Post #: 1661

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 4:06:33 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
13h
Oops.
Quote Tweet
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
· 14h
The #Raiders are signing kicker Daniel Carlson to a four-year, $18.4 million extension that includes a $4M signing bonus and $10.2M guaranteed, per source. He’s now the NFL’s third-highest paid kicker. Money bagMoney bag
Mostly Snark
@BoutitDontwry
·
13h
If it makes Vikings fans feel better they would have had to let him leave because of the money anyway

I would rather have Carlson but his and Joseph's stats are pretty close.

Carlson has made 50 for 55 total kicks.

Joseph has made 48 for 55 total kicks.

When I look them up I see Joseph is 41 of 48 for his career and Carlson is 96 of 112. Both are about the same percentage still though. 85.7% for Carlson and 85.4% for Joseph. Carlson is 88% since leaving MN so there's that I guess.

I think Joseph can be the guy for the new regime.

He needs to just clean up his PATs.

Joesph: 89%, Carlson: 96%.

You just can't miss over 10% of your extra points.

Yep.

Post #: 1662

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 6:33:58 PM

marty

Posts: 12887
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Carlson probably would have continued to fail under Zimmer, and I certainly wouldn't have trusted him in a clutch situation, especially in a playoff game.

I think Joseph's numbers will probably stay the same, or even improve slightly with a new regime. He is worth keeping, just hope to have continuity around him.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1663

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 6:54:38 PM

odin

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Joined: 11/23/2008
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I hate to see Cook rushed back from injury (again). At best he'll likely be ineffective and at worst he's risking a career ending injury. RB is not a position where someone can successfully avoid contact and falling on the injured area. How many times does someone have to reaggravate an injury before Zimmer learns? So dumb and short-sighted.

Post #: 1664

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2021 7:59:54 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Joseph having a “hold my beer” game…

Post #: 1665

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 7:28:54 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Just wow. Only Zim can turn a criminal beat down into an embarrassing win.

Any joy I was feeling got swallowed up in that 4th qtr shit show.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1666

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 7:42:12 AM 1 votes

Brad H

Posts: 22848
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online

I ran the numbers last night after the game and posted them in the Game Day thread. The Vikings have been outscored 87-36 in the final two minutes of halves this season. Last night was just the second time all season they didn't give up a point, and the fifth time they haven't scored a point.

With all the tight games in the NFL, you have to be good in the last two minutes of halves. We may have the worst two-minute team in the league. The defense goes into a prevent shell and the offense has zero leadership. The coaching on both sides of the ball in tight situations is abysmal!

In last night's game, Cousins had a chance to completely put the game away in the final two minutes of the opening half. If the Vikings go down and score, I think there's a solid chance Mason Rudolph starts the second half for the Steelers.

Anybody think Bill Belichick would have started passing the ball averaging about 10 yards-per-carry? How about ZERO chance. Our offensive coordinator got cavalier and cocky, and 15 minutes later we had a game.

What we saw last night was a massive chasm between Mike Tomlin and Mike Zimmer. Tomlin is a gamer. Zimmer is a choking dog. The same could be said for Roethlisberger and Cousins. It's why one has multiple rings and the other has none. It was on stage for the entire world to see, which is why we wake up this morning embarrassed to be a Vikings fan. Meanwhile, Packer fans had a huge smile on their faces after that game.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/10/2021 8:00:33 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1667

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 8:24:41 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38924
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

I hate to see Cook rushed back from injury (again). At best he'll likely be ineffective and at worst he's risking a career ending injury. RB is not a position where someone can successfully avoid contact and falling on the injured area. How many times does someone have to reaggravate an injury before Zimmer learns? So dumb and short-sighted.

Guessing you got this all wrong.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa

Post #: 1668

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 8:39:51 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22848
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

I hate to see Cook rushed back from injury (again). At best he'll likely be ineffective and at worst he's risking a career ending injury. RB is not a position where someone can successfully avoid contact and falling on the injured area. How many times does someone have to reaggravate an injury before Zimmer learns? So dumb and short-sighted.

Guessing you got this all wrong.

I put the over/under at 17 more carries before he pulls a hamstring.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1669

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 9:05:21 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22848
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1670

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 9:07:10 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38924
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa

Post #: 1671

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 9:09:39 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22848
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1672

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 9:11:33 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38924
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

If you are patient with the young kicker you can draft one with a 6-7th round pick.

I wouldn't waste a 1st rounder on one. So why would i give one up in trade for one? and yes the Ravens would do it. A First round pick for a Kicker? They'd do it in a heartbeat.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa

Post #: 1673

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 9:12:58 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22848
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

If you are patient with the young kicker you can draft one with a 6-7th round pick.

I wouldn't waste a 1st rounder on one. So why would i give one up in trade for one? and yes the Ravens would do it. A First round pick for a Kicker? They'd do it in a heartbeat.

The guy is a cold-blooded assassin. We'd have three more wins right now with Tucker. Name me another guy in the league (not playing quarterback) that wins you three games.

Greg Joseph has missed extra points in each of the past three games. Justin Tucker has missed four in his entire 10-year career.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/10/2021 9:36:40 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1674

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2021 9:37:03 AM

David F.

Posts: 10842
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

Having been to the game in Baltimore this year I can say (not that it's a secret) that they LOVE LOVE LOVE Justin Tucker there. The crowd cheers when he runs ON TO the field. They wouldn't trade him for a first rounder unless it was top ten.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1675