quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

If you are patient with the young kicker you can draft one with a 6-7th round pick.

I wouldn't waste a 1st rounder on one. So why would i give one up in trade for one? and yes the Ravens would do it. A First round pick for a Kicker? They'd do it in a heartbeat.

The guy is a cold-blooded assassin. We'd have three more wins right now with Tucker. Name me another guy in the league (not playing quarterback) that wins you three games.

Greg Joseph has missed extra points in each of the past three games. Justin Tucker has missed four in his entire 10-year career.

It's as simple as this.

HE IS A KICKER.

HE IS NOT WORTH A FIRST ROUND PICK.

Again, I pose the question. Name me a few guys (not playing quarterback) that win you three games a year?

With better coaching we have five more wins.

Counting kickoffs the kicker is involved in how many plays a game on average? 8 to 10 ?. I don't care how good he is. if you can't get into FG range he's useless. if your defense can't keep the game within 3 points the kicker isn't going to win you the game. Kickers are not worth a first round pick. Ever.

I was pissed we lost a fifth rounder for that Kaare Vedvik or whatever waste of oxygen.

I think we need a better kicker, but giving up a first round pick for one would be a massive overreaction. A better kicker can be had for far less. and the first round pick can be used on a much more talented player that might see say 40-60 plays a game. Would you trade Justin Jefferson for Justin Tucker?

So you are using Justin Jefferson as your example? Is that a guy you think wins you three games a year? Honest question. A simple yes or no will do.

You clearly think this can be answered with a yes or no question?

NO.

I would not ever trade a first rounder for Justin Tucker. I have already made this pretty clear.

I don't care how many more wins you would theorize we could have. It would be a waste of resources to blow a first round pick on a kicker. The only time I've ever seen a team do this that team won exactly 0 championships. and do you think they actually made it to any of their success solely on the leg of a kicker? No they didn't and you know it.

Enough of the ridiculous proposition. It is never going to happen.

For what it's worth, I would agree that Justin Jefferson wins a team three games a year. Where was Justin Jefferson drafted?

CASE CLOSED!

For what it's worth. Justin Jefferson is exponentially more valuable than Justin Tucker.

It still comes down to would you give up a first round pick for a kicker? Any kicker? I wouldn't.

Can't we have Justin Jefferson AND Justin Tucker? Do we have to have just one?

Offer a first round pick and see what they say. I'm gonna tell you right now, the answer could be no from the Ravens.

It doesn't matter to me what you think their answer might be. I would never offer a first round pick.

THEY JUST MIGHT TAKE IT. and then you would be out a first round pick....for a kicker.

This isn't a typical year. He wouldn't win you three extra games during the typical Vikings year. Let's take a different example. How many extra games would Tucker have won the Vikings in 2017?

If you compare Tucker's stats to a replacement-level kicker like Joseph, Tucker is worth around 10 more points per year, 2 field goals and 4 extra points. But you can't just take those 10 points and put them on the exact games the Vikings fall a bit short. That is, some of those 10 points wouldn't make any difference to a game's outcome. If football had a WAR stat, it would be far less than 3 for Tucker.

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves without even being on the field.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast. For $5-million a year, hell yea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

If you are patient with the young kicker you can draft one with a 6-7th round pick.

I wouldn't waste a 1st rounder on one. So why would i give one up in trade for one? and yes the Ravens would do it. A First round pick for a Kicker? They'd do it in a heartbeat.

The guy is a cold-blooded assassin. We'd have three more wins right now with Tucker. Name me another guy in the league (not playing quarterback) that wins you three games.

Greg Joseph has missed extra points in each of the past three games. Justin Tucker has missed four in his entire 10-year career.

It's as simple as this.

HE IS A KICKER.

HE IS NOT WORTH A FIRST ROUND PICK.

Again, I pose the question. Name me a few guys (not playing quarterback) that win you three games a year?

With better coaching we have five more wins.

Counting kickoffs the kicker is involved in how many plays a game on average? 8 to 10 ?. I don't care how good he is. if you can't get into FG range he's useless. if your defense can't keep the game within 3 points the kicker isn't going to win you the game. Kickers are not worth a first round pick. Ever.

I was pissed we lost a fifth rounder for that Kaare Vedvik or whatever waste of oxygen.

I think we need a better kicker, but giving up a first round pick for one would be a massive overreaction. A better kicker can be had for far less. and the first round pick can be used on a much more talented player that might see say 40-60 plays a game. Would you trade Justin Jefferson for Justin Tucker?

So you are using Justin Jefferson as your example? Is that a guy you think wins you three games a year? Honest question. A simple yes or no will do.

You clearly think this can be answered with a yes or no question?

NO.

I would not ever trade a first rounder for Justin Tucker. I have already made this pretty clear.

I don't care how many more wins you would theorize we could have. It would be a waste of resources to blow a first round pick on a kicker. The only time I've ever seen a team do this that team won exactly 0 championships. and do you think they actually made it to any of their success solely on the leg of a kicker? No they didn't and you know it.

Enough of the ridiculous proposition. It is never going to happen.

For what it's worth, I would agree that Justin Jefferson wins a team three games a year. Where was Justin Jefferson drafted?

CASE CLOSED!

For what it's worth. Justin Jefferson is exponentially more valuable than Justin Tucker.

It still comes down to would you give up a first round pick for a kicker? Any kicker? I wouldn't.

Can't we have Justin Jefferson AND Justin Tucker? Do we have to have just one?

Offer a first round pick and see what they say. I'm gonna tell you right now, the answer could be no from the Ravens.

It doesn't matter to me what you think their answer might be. I would never offer a first round pick.

THEY JUST MIGHT TAKE IT. and then you would be out a first round pick....for a kicker.

This isn't a typical year. He wouldn't win you three extra games during the typical Vikings year. Let's take a different example. How many extra games would Tucker have won the Vikings in 2017?

If you compare Tucker's stats to a replacement-level kicker like Joseph, Tucker is worth around 10 more points per year, 2 field goals and 4 extra points. But you can't just take those 10 points and put them on the exact games the Vikings fall a bit short. That is, some of those 10 points wouldn't make any difference to a game's outcome. If football had a WAR stat, it would be far less than 3 for Tucker.

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves without even being on the field.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast. For $5-million a year, hell yea.

Babe Ruth's best WAR was 14.2 in a season where he played 152 games. For a 17-game season, that works out to 1.6 wins above replacement. You're saying that Justin Tucker would be almost twice as valuable to the Vikings (you say 3 extra wins per year) as Babe Ruth was to the 1923 Yankees?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

Why continue this? Your first response to this dumb argument was spot on:

Tucker? For a first? ***No. (or something like that)

We'd be better off investing in jetpacks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

Why continue this? Your first response to this dumb argument was spot on:

Tucker? For a first? ***No. (or something like that)

We'd be better off investing in jetpacks.

If the jetpacks could win you three more games I would give up a first round pick for them. It's all about wins and losses, fellas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

Why continue this? Your first response to this dumb argument was spot on:

Tucker? For a first? ***No. (or something like that)

We'd be better off investing in jetpacks.

If the jetpacks could win you three more games I would give up a first round pick for them. It's all about wins and losses, fellas.

Yes. and I have outlined a great many things that are causing our losses and putting us in situations where a kicker could have given us three more wins. Of course he couldn't if they can't get him into range. and they wouldn't have to if they wouldn't keep coughing up leads...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Deion Sanders once said on a radio show I was listening to that often times the difference between a good team and a great team is the small things, or intangibles. He made it a point to say that the Vikings were terrible at the little things. One thing he directly pointed to was our special teams. I agree entirely with him. This organization has been horrific at the little things for quite some time. And when you add up all those little things, it amounts to a big thing. As in wins and losses, playoff spots or home field advantage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Ok. so It's clear

Brad H would blow a first round pick for a Kicker.

Trekgeekscott would NOT.

Anyone else want to chime in?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Ok. so It's clear

Brad H would blow a first round pick for a Kicker.

Trekgeekscott would NOT.

Anyone else want to chime in?

I'll only chime in with this: Did you ever read your tagline?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Ok. so It's clear

Brad H would blow a first round pick for a Kicker.

Trekgeekscott would NOT.

Anyone else want to chime in?

I'll only chime in with this: Did you ever read your tagline?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Deion Sanders once said on a radio show I was listening to that often times the difference between a good team and a great team is the small things, or intangibles. He made it a point to say that the Vikings were terrible at the little things. One thing he directly pointed to was our special teams. I agree entirely with him. This organization has been horrific at the little things for quite some time. And when you add up all those little things, it amounts to a big thing. As in wins and losses, playoff spots or home field advantage.

And why do you think they are bad at the little things?

I agree with him as well.

I think it's more coaching than kicking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Ok. so It's clear

Brad H would blow a first round pick for a Kicker.

Trekgeekscott would NOT.

Anyone else want to chime in?

I'll only chime in with this: Did you ever read your tagline?

It's a good conversation. If you don't like it, start one that is more compelling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

Why continue this? Your first response to this dumb argument was spot on:

Tucker? For a first? ***No. (or something like that)

We'd be better off investing in jetpacks.

If the jetpacks could win you three more games I would give up a first round pick for them. It's all about wins and losses, fellas.

Yes. and I have outlined a great many things that are causing our losses and putting us in situations where a kicker could have given us three more wins. Of course he couldn't if they can't get him into range. and they wouldn't have to if they wouldn't keep coughing up leads...

And for the most part, I would agree with you on some of those other things. But every team in the league also has some of those other things. Only one team in the league has Justin Tucker.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

Why continue this? Your first response to this dumb argument was spot on:

Tucker? For a first? ***No. (or something like that)

We'd be better off investing in jetpacks.

If the jetpacks could win you three more games I would give up a first round pick for them. It's all about wins and losses, fellas.

Yes. and I have outlined a great many things that are causing our losses and putting us in situations where a kicker could have given us three more wins. Of course he couldn't if they can't get him into range. and they wouldn't have to if they wouldn't keep coughing up leads...

And for the most part, I would agree with you on some of those other things. But every team in the league also has some of those other things. Only one team in the league has Justin Tucker.

And there are several teams that are doing very well in this same league this year without Justin Tucker.

Baltimore is not all that great this year, Despite having Justin Tucker. They are seriously flawed in pass defense and their "MVP" is doing as much to curtail their success as he is to contribute to it. They do have one win because of Justin Tucker's leg...but they should have lost to the Lions, a really bad team. When it takes a record setting prayer of a kick to win against a really bad team, you're not doing well.

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Deion Sanders once said on a radio show I was listening to that often times the difference between a good team and a great team is the small things, or intangibles. He made it a point to say that the Vikings were terrible at the little things. One thing he directly pointed to was our special teams. I agree entirely with him. This organization has been horrific at the little things for quite some time. And when you add up all those little things, it amounts to a big thing. As in wins and losses, playoff spots or home field advantage.

And why do you think they are bad at the little things?

I agree with him as well.

I think it's more coaching than kicking.

Could be. Hard to say. You'll get no argument from me on whether or not Zimmer needs to go. But to say that all kickers are equal, and it comes down to coaching, is fairly naive. Some guys are just special.

I'll use your example as an example. Why is Justin Jefferson so good? By your logic, it is because of Mike Zimmer.

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

The Ravens are a half game out of home field advantage in the AFC. They are on their fifth running back and their quarterback has missed multiple games, with Hollywood Brown as his top receiver.

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Deion Sanders once said on a radio show I was listening to that often times the difference between a good team and a great team is the small things, or intangibles. He made it a point to say that the Vikings were terrible at the little things. One thing he directly pointed to was our special teams. I agree entirely with him. This organization has been horrific at the little things for quite some time. And when you add up all those little things, it amounts to a big thing. As in wins and losses, playoff spots or home field advantage.

And why do you think they are bad at the little things?

I agree with him as well.

I think it's more coaching than kicking.

Could be. Hard to say. You'll get no argument from me on whether or not Zimmer needs to go. But to say that all kickers are equal, and it comes down to coaching, is fairly naive. Some guys are just special.

I'll use your example as an example. Why is Justin Jefferson so good? By your logic, it is because of Mike Zimmer.

I never said all kickers are equal.

Jefferson is a very talented man, It isn't Zimmer that is making him great. It's his own will to work hard, run good routes and catch the ball when it is thrown to him that makes him good. If coaching has anything to do with it it is not Zimmer's coaching, it'd be more Keenan McCardell or his previous position coach, plus having an Adam Theilen to mentor him. He's just special.

I didn't say it just comes down to coaching. I said our problem with all the little things is probably more to do with coaching than it is with kicking.

You extrapolated way too much out of what I said.

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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Oh, I disagree entirely. Tucker is a legit weapon. He completely changes schemes in the final two minutes of halves.

If you factor in contract money, Justin Tucker is an absolute beast.

Yes Tucker is very good.

and yes this year we've lost a couple games due to a kicker ****ing it up. Yes he would have helped in that regard. but in the end this team would still have the same problems regardless of record. an unbelievably overpaid QB that statistically is very good but doesn't audible, read a defense or ever run a play contrary to what is called. is risk averse to a fault. We'd still have an overpaid underachieving defense. We'd still be giving up points in the last two minutes of halves at a record setting pace. We'd still be getting badly outcoached each game. We'd still have a terrible Oline etc etc etc etc.

And trading away a first round pick for a kicker is not going to help with any of this. If we drafted well that first round pick could help in other areas.

Justin Tucker is a great kicker. I'd love to have him. but Baltimore, as you indicated, would probably not give him up. He's a pipedream.

A couple of games? It's been an ongoing problem since 2016.

So Tucker cures us of all our woes? Everything else I mentioned here means nothing?

You don't like Cousins, but Tucker solves all.
Don't like our corners (apparently that's where defense starts) but Tucker solves all.
Our Oline couldn't block peewee players, but Tucker solves all.
Our team can't seem to hold a lead this year but Tucker solves all.
Half of our players are way overpaid but Tucker solves all.

Need I go on?


We get it Brad. You like Tucker. He'd be a nice get.

But until we solve other bigger problems on this team, Tucker isn't going to help as much as you think. We need to start with new GM and Coaching staff. Find a way to unload Cousins and get another QB in there that can see from the formation that a play wont work. We need to get some big contracts and overpaid underacheiving players off the roster and use the cap savings to get more overacheivers. We need to get a coaching staff that can take another kicker, perhaps Tucker, perhaps someone else and nurture/coach/develop them to be far better than what we've got since 2016.

I could go on.

Tucker is the Ravens Kicker until they don't want him to be. and the Vikings are not going to offer a first round pick for him.

Though they need better production out of the position, the team overall isn't going to get better by trading away a first round pick for a kicker.

I've answered your question.

I wouldn't give up a first round pick for Tucker. You clearly would. I am curious how you think we can fix the bigger problems on this team by trading for and paying a lot for a Justin Tucker?

Oh. Btw. He's not perfect either. He does miss kicks sometimes.

Why continue this? Your first response to this dumb argument was spot on:

Tucker? For a first? ***No. (or something like that)

We'd be better off investing in jetpacks.

If the jetpacks could win you three more games I would give up a first round pick for them. It's all about wins and losses, fellas.

Yes. and I have outlined a great many things that are causing our losses and putting us in situations where a kicker could have given us three more wins. Of course he couldn't if they can't get him into range. and they wouldn't have to if they wouldn't keep coughing up leads...

And for the most part, I would agree with you on some of those other things. But every team in the league also has some of those other things. Only one team in the league has Justin Tucker.

And there are several teams that are doing very well in this same league this year without Justin Tucker.

Baltimore is not all that great this year, Despite having Justin Tucker. They are seriously flawed in pass defense and their "MVP" is doing as much to curtail their success as he is to contribute to it. They do have one win because of Justin Tucker's leg...but they should have lost to the Lions, a really bad team. When it takes a record setting prayer of a kick to win against a really bad team, you're not doing well.

The Ravens are a half game out of home field advantage in the AFC. They are on their fifth running back and their quarterback has missed multiple games, with Hollywood Brown as his top receiver.

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

I posed the question last night and I pose it again. Should/could we trade our #1 pick for Justin Tucker?

the KICKER?

**** NO

Honestly, I'm not sure Baltimore would do it.

If you are patient with the young kicker you can draft one with a 6-7th round pick.

I wouldn't waste a 1st rounder on one. So why would i give one up in trade for one? and yes the Ravens would do it. A First round pick for a Kicker? They'd do it in a heartbeat.

The guy is a cold-blooded assassin. We'd have three more wins right now with Tucker. Name me another guy in the league (not playing quarterback) that wins you three games.

Greg Joseph has missed extra points in each of the past three games. Justin Tucker has missed four in his entire 10-year career.

It's as simple as this.

HE IS A KICKER.

HE IS NOT WORTH A FIRST ROUND PICK.

Again, I pose the question. Name me a few guys (not playing quarterback) that win you three games a year?

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Deion Sanders once said on a radio show I was listening to that often times the difference between a good team and a great team is the small things, or intangibles. He made it a point to say that the Vikings were terrible at the little things. One thing he directly pointed to was our special teams. I agree entirely with him. This organization has been horrific at the little things for quite some time. And when you add up all those little things, it amounts to a big thing. As in wins and losses, playoff spots or home field advantage.

And why do you think they are bad at the little things?

I agree with him as well.

I think it's more coaching than kicking.

Could be. Hard to say. You'll get no argument from me on whether or not Zimmer needs to go. But to say that all kickers are equal, and it comes down to coaching, is fairly naive. Some guys are just special.

I'll use your example as an example. Why is Justin Jefferson so good? By your logic, it is because of Mike Zimmer.

I never said all kickers are equal.

Jefferson is a very talented man, It isn't Zimmer that is making him great. It's his own will to work hard, run good routes and catch the ball when it is thrown to him that makes him good. If coaching has anything to do with it it is not Zimmer's coaching, it'd be more Keenan McCardell or his previous position coach, plus having an Adam Theilen to mentor him. He's just special.

I didn't say it just comes down to coaching. I said our problem with all the little things is probably more to do with coaching than it is with kicking.

You extrapolated way too much out of what I said.

"I think it's more coaching than kicking." (Trek)

How else was I supposed to read into that?

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And why do you think they are bad at the little things?