quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

I am a little bummed about Harbaugh, but I am good with O'Connell. now let's see who he brings in on his staff.

KAM/KOC need to hit a HR on the Coordinators. Get some experience in the building. McVay and Taylor both went with experienced DCs.

I agree. Someone posted Jerry Gray; he was DB coach with Zimmer and since he left the defense has suffered. Went to GB and theirs improved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I tried to tell you folks that the Harbaugh thing was a big mirage. Harbaugh was looking to get paid, plain and simple. I'm willing to bet they are working on a new deal at Michigan as we speak.

Congrats to our new GM on reading between the lines.

they said that the vikings never made harbaugh an offer, but i bet he made them one...i read somewhere that he wanted $100m/10yrs....when the wilfs balked at that number, it was over...also, his agent was probably already on the phone with Michigan while he was at the meeting....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I highly doubt “ they turned down Harbaugh at a reasonable rate”..

I think Harbaugh was using the Vikings as leverage for his contract quibble with UofM…

It was an all day type interview.. I’m pretty sure that many things were discussed, and I’m equally as sure that there were issues that raised red flags, what those issues were, we will never know..

Never seen so much butthurt over not getting a particular coach..not so much here, but..

There’s a whole sub on Reddit of butthurt whiners gnashing their teeth and cursing the ownership and wanting KAM fired, already..

Unbelievable, how single minded and petty those people can be.

It’s not the end of the world…

If we can survive Tice, Childress, and Frazier, and the Zimmerball era, we will be ok without Harbaugh.
People are already calling the off season a “bust”..

Yeesh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I highly doubt “ they turned down Harbaugh at a reasonable rate”..

I think Harbaugh was using the Vikings as leverage for his contract quibble with UofM…

It was an all day type interview.. I’m pretty sure that many things were discussed, and I’m equally as sure that there were issues that raised red flags, what those issues were, we will never know..

Never seen so much butthurt over not getting a particular coach..not so much here, but..

There’s a whole sub on Reddit of butthurt whiners gnashing their teeth and cursing the ownership and wanting KAM fired, already..

Unbelievable, how single minded and petty those people can be.

It’s not the end of the world…

If we can survive Tice, Childress, and Frazier, and the Zimmerball era, we will be ok without Harbaugh.
People are already calling the off season a “bust”..

Yeesh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bongbong

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I highly doubt “ they turned down Harbaugh at a reasonable rate”..

I think Harbaugh was using the Vikings as leverage for his contract quibble with UofM…

It was an all day type interview.. I’m pretty sure that many things were discussed, and I’m equally as sure that there were issues that raised red flags, what those issues were, we will never know..

Never seen so much butthurt over not getting a particular coach..not so much here, but..

There’s a whole sub on Reddit of butthurt whiners gnashing their teeth and cursing the ownership and wanting KAM fired, already..

Unbelievable, how single minded and petty those people can be.

It’s not the end of the world…

If we can survive Tice, Childress, and Frazier, and the Zimmerball era, we will be ok without Harbaugh.
People are already calling the off season a “bust”..

Yeesh.

HI Dano. You're right we'll never know what went on. I'm not butthurt, but if the two candidates were affordable, then JH was a no-brainer (and I'm never right about anything). Yes, we "survived" all those all those medicore hires, but we want the best available.
I find it hard to believe JH chose LOI day to make a salary bluff. Who knows?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bongbong

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I highly doubt “ they turned down Harbaugh at a reasonable rate”..

I think Harbaugh was using the Vikings as leverage for his contract quibble with UofM…

It was an all day type interview.. I’m pretty sure that many things were discussed, and I’m equally as sure that there were issues that raised red flags, what those issues were, we will never know..

Never seen so much butthurt over not getting a particular coach..not so much here, but..

There’s a whole sub on Reddit of butthurt whiners gnashing their teeth and cursing the ownership and wanting KAM fired, already..

Unbelievable, how single minded and petty those people can be.

It’s not the end of the world…

If we can survive Tice, Childress, and Frazier, and the Zimmerball era, we will be ok without Harbaugh.
People are already calling the off season a “bust”..

Yeesh.

HI Dano. You're right we'll never know what went on. I'm not butthurt, but if the two candidates were affordable, then JH was a no-brainer (and I'm never right about anything). Yes, we "survived" all those all those medicore hires, but we want the best available.
I find it hard to believe JH chose LOI day to make a salary bluff. Who knows?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

The kind of analytics that take into account all aspects of a coaches responsibilites, personality traits, organizational habits, etc etc etc. Not just past performance 8-12 years ago in a different organization. No matter how highly you think of Harbaugh, he is a very polarizing figure for a reason, he is a mixed bag. He’s not for everybody … or everybody would be knocking down his door. They’re not.

Past success is a great indicator of future success, maybe the best, but that alone doesn’t ensure future success. Harbaugh will have to find the right situation to be successful in the nfl, so will we. They broke bread face to face for eight hours and then went their own directions. It obviously wasn’t the right fit for one or the other - it takes both to make it work, both moved on, end of story.

Analytics survey the current variables as well as past ones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

The kind of analytics that take into account all aspects of a coaches responsibilites, personality traits, organizational habits, etc etc etc. Not just past performance 8-12 years ago in a different organization. No matter how highly you think of Harbaugh, he is a very polarizing figure for a reason, he is a mixed bag. He’s not for everybody … or everybody would be knocking down his door. They’re not.

Past success is a great indicator of future success, maybe the best, but that alone doesn’t ensure future success. Harbaugh will have to find the right situation to be successful in the nfl, so will we. They broke bread face to face for eight hours and then went their own directions. It obviously wasn’t the right fit for one or the other - it takes both to make it work, both moved on, end of story.

Analytics survey the current variables as well as past ones.

A win and loss record by itself is not analytics. Analytics helps quantify what went into that record. As you said, there are so many variables to explore. I agree. I think both sides decided it wasn't a fit.

FWIW, Doogie's sources told him O'Connell was the favorite heading into the second round of interviews.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

My impression is that's not true at all ... and it's what I figured when we hired him: something goes wrong, someone doesn't like a decision and it's Kwesi and his analytics F this up

I got sucked in and my initial reaction was "damn" when Harbaugh didn't get the job. But that didn't last long. This could be some good stuff going forward. A 37 year-old bright guy. Won't that be cool when it works out to great teams going forward?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

The kind of analytics that take into account all aspects of a coaches responsibilites, personality traits, organizational habits, etc etc etc. Not just past performance 8-12 years ago in a different organization. No matter how highly you think of Harbaugh, he is a very polarizing figure for a reason, he is a mixed bag. He’s not for everybody … or everybody would be knocking down his door. They’re not.

Past success is a great indicator of future success, maybe the best, but that alone doesn’t ensure future success. Harbaugh will have to find the right situation to be successful in the nfl, so will we. They broke bread face to face for eight hours and then went their own directions. It obviously wasn’t the right fit for one or the other - it takes both to make it work, both moved on, end of story.

Analytics survey the current variables as well as past ones.

A win and loss record by itself is not analytics. Analytics helps quantify what went into that record. As you said, there are so many variables to explore. I agree. I think both sides decided it wasn't a fit.

FWIW, Doogie's sources told him O'Connell was the favorite heading into the second round of interviews.

My purely speculative, non-objective self thinks that ... the hands-off Wilfs and the newbie Adofo-Mensah put a lot more weight on the HC candidates 'this is my vision of your franchise' versus the usual 'this is what I plan to give you based on what I've done in the past'.

Its risky ... the typical path (when you lack experience) is to clump onto somebody with a wealth of experience. These guys really seem determined to forge a new path.

I really do think Harbaugh was a late attempt to cover all their search bases of the 'usual suspects'. I also think they were obviously most impressed by O'Connell out of a group of very impressive people, including Harbaugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

I think this is more confusion about analytics.

Analytics is not looking at boxscores, overall record, number of TDs thrown, etc. That's shit everyone knows and all you need is a newspaper or profootballreference.com to get your "data".

Analytics is trying to explain things that aren't so quantifiable. It's not "what happened?" it's "why did it happen?" and "how can I make this happen more regularly?".

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

I think this is more confusion about analytics.

Analytics is not looking at boxscores, overall record, number of TDs thrown, etc. That's shit everyone knows and all you need is a newspaper or profootballreference.com to get your "data".

Analytics is trying to explain things that aren't so quantifiable. It's not "what happened?" it's "why did it happen?" and "how can I make this happen more regularly?".

Make no mistake, I'm not confused about analytics. Analytics doesn't ignore important quantifiable relationships, such as the relationship between past and future head coaching success, even if it is "shit everyone knows".

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

I think this is more confusion about analytics.

Analytics is not looking at boxscores, overall record, number of TDs thrown, etc. That's shit everyone knows and all you need is a newspaper or profootballreference.com to get your "data".

Analytics is trying to explain things that aren't so quantifiable. It's not "what happened?" it's "why did it happen?" and "how can I make this happen more regularly?".

Make no mistake, I'm not confused about analytics. Analytics doesn't ignore important quantifiable relationships, such as the relationship between past and future head coaching success, even if it is "shit everyone knows".

And I'm pretty sure KAM is fully aware of Harbaugh's past record.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

I think this is more confusion about analytics.

Analytics is not looking at boxscores, overall record, number of TDs thrown, etc. That's shit everyone knows and all you need is a newspaper or profootballreference.com to get your "data".

Analytics is trying to explain things that aren't so quantifiable. It's not "what happened?" it's "why did it happen?" and "how can I make this happen more regularly?".

Make no mistake, I'm not confused about analytics. Analytics doesn't ignore important quantifiable relationships, such as the relationship between past and future head coaching success, even if it is "shit everyone knows".

And I'm pretty sure KAM is fully aware of Harbaugh's past record.

As such, pretty easy to see that the Vikings did not use analytics to choose O'Connell over Harbaugh based on expected future wins and losses. Going with culture, personality, etc., i.e., hard to measure criteria that would be difficult to correlate with NFL wins, is pretty much anti-analytics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think the angst and teeth gnashing over the Vikings not hiring Harbaugh is getting as over the top as Brad's objections to him.

You guys are really engaging in an incredible amount of speculation. How much he was asking for...did he even bring up money...how well would he have coached a completely different roster with a different organization...he would have assembled a staff of assistants who should all be head coaches themselves...

Come on people, you don't know any of this.

Kwesi's supposed to be all about analytics. What kind of analytics model favors O'Connell over Harbaugh? Past success is an excellent predictor of future success for NFL coaches. New head coaches are a mixed bag.

I think this is more confusion about analytics.

Analytics is not looking at boxscores, overall record, number of TDs thrown, etc. That's shit everyone knows and all you need is a newspaper or profootballreference.com to get your "data".

Analytics is trying to explain things that aren't so quantifiable. It's not "what happened?" it's "why did it happen?" and "how can I make this happen more regularly?".

Make no mistake, I'm not confused about analytics. Analytics doesn't ignore important quantifiable relationships, such as the relationship between past and future head coaching success, even if it is "shit everyone knows".