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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 1:08:31 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36261
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

My $0.02:

Saw that loss coming a mile away. The Donashell couldn't get a turnover or stop them on third down.

The OL actually held up better than expected.

The 4th and 1 call was poor, as was the fumble play. Giving up the fake punt on 4th and 7! Ugh.

The going for 2 was a total head scratcher, too.

KFC played well. JJ is a beast!!!!!!!!

Head home and take care of the Colts to win the division. The rest is all about getting healthy and seeding.

Beyond this year....yes, Thielen, Smith, Cook? all need to go.

Kirk did make some terrific throws and nobody is better than Jefferson.
Our defense is hard to watch.

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Post #: 3476

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 1:24:44 PM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Why would he (Vic Fangio) leave when they are rolling?

He'd be part of a potential Superbowl winner.

I just don't get why he would leave them, to take over a defense that sucks donkey nuts

Because, Vic Fangio isn't the Eagles DC, not even sure he's on the payroll, he's acting as some sort of consultant.

With the Vikings, he can come in, have an actual label of DC, and be the last second hero as they win the Super Bowl. Kind of like a FA like OBJ coming in as a last second final piece in December.

The Vikings have some great players on defense, they would flourish with a more aggressive DC. And their job is made easy by having an offense that can score points.

< Message edited by marty -- 12/12/2022 1:35:30 PM >

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Post #: 3477

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 1:33:41 PM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
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The Vikings should have put me in charge. I would have fired Donatell right after the Eagles game, and immediately hired Vic Fangio.

Fangio would have an aggressive defense, and they would have had his system down by now. The Vikes could have locked down the number 2 spot, but now, mostly because Donatell sucks, are in a battle with SF for the number 2 spot.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3478

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 5:22:32 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36261
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

Quarterback Kirk Cousins became the first NFL player in five seasons to complete at least 75 percent of his pass attempts, throw for 400 yards, have no interceptions and not come out victorious, according to ESPN.

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Post #: 3479

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 6:31:11 PM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
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Maybe some of you aren't aware of the reason the non-aggressive Ed Donatell was fired from Green Bay after a playoff game loss in 2004:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1710276

4th and 26 given up to McNabb, only rushing 3.

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Post #: 3480

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 6:37:33 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78809
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Why would he (Vic Fangio) leave when they are rolling?

He'd be part of a potential Superbowl winner.

I just don't get why he would leave them, to take over a defense that sucks donkey nuts

Because, Vic Fangio isn't the Eagles DC, not even sure he's on the payroll, he's acting as some sort of consultant.

With the Vikings, he can come in, have an actual label of DC, and be the last second hero as they win the Super Bowl. Kind of like a FA like OBJ coming in as a last second final piece in December.

The Vikings have some great players on defense, they would flourish with a more aggressive DC. And their job is made easy by having an offense that can score points.

He turned down multiple DC jobs this year. He wants to take the year off from having a major position and just consult. Next year he's likely to field offers.

I doubt we were even on his radar to start the year and I'm pretty sure the Eagles disaster would not have changed his mind. By the time we showed we were actually pretty good, it was far too late to wholesale change systems.

He's good, but not some magic worker. His career is full of great defenses, horrible defenses and everything in-between.

I'd happily take him over Donatel, but it wasn't going to happen this year.

Post #: 3481

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 9:27:33 PM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
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I would take on the DC job myself, you almost couldn't make it worse.

You have some great players on defense with Hunter, Z, Kendricks, PP and Smith. You have an offense that can put on points, and a Head coach that knows how to win.

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Post #: 3482

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 9:48:15 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Quarterback Kirk Cousins became the first NFL player in five seasons to complete at least 75 percent of his pass attempts, throw for 400 yards, have no interceptions and not come out victorious, according to ESPN.

That will happen when your DC plays prevent defense the entire game

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3483

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2022 9:52:33 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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Funny how Donnashell was mouthing off after the Jets game about his defense giving up yards but not points against a 3rd string qb. Now he could be losing his job.

His system sux. Fire his ass and let Pettine take over.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3484

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 12:22:03 AM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I just went to CBS sports NFL, and don't see anything about Donatell being fired. Are the Vikings just keeping this secret, or are some news places just behind in the coverage ?

Or are we going to see the defense angrily rise up and be aggressive for a few weeks, and then go right back to sucking?

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Post #: 3485

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 1:19:09 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I would take on the DC job myself, you almost couldn't make it worse.

You have some great players on defense with Hunter, Z, Kendricks, PP and Smith. You have an offense that can put on points, and a Head coach that knows how to win.

No thank you and yes you could.

It would start with you trying to convince Kwesi to trade Jefferson for Fangio as your assistant … and then begging Kwesi to sign OBJ at CB instead of WR. Not enough ‘facetime’ for you two with him way over on offense.

Post #: 3486

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 2:13:56 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9723
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
truth is, even with our horrific defense this is a game we would have won in our normal crazy style - if we didn't make so many other bad decisions/errors....

hockenson dropped pass for a 1st down....
4th down conversion fail...gave detroit short field....
cook fumble on detroit three yard line....
two-point conversion fail....
jefferson touchdown that was called stepped out...would have saved vikes 50 seconds....
onside kick...gave Detroit short field....

.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 12/13/2022 3:11:08 AM >

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Post #: 3487

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 7:35:15 AM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 13666
Joined: 7/28/2007
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Everyone here talking about defensive coaching, like tweaking defensive schemes is the answer.

In what universe?

There are about 4 talented defensive players, the rest would have trouble cracking a starting lineup anywhere. I got news. Nobody is going to coach them up into being pro bowlers.

The defensive woes are primarily personnel driven. Regardless of scheme, you just need guys who can make plays.

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Post #: 3488

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 8:24:30 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18405
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Quarterback Kirk Cousins became the first NFL player in five seasons to complete at least 75 percent of his pass attempts, throw for 400 yards, have no interceptions and not come out victorious, according to ESPN.

KOC: It'll get lost in the shuffle but Kirk Cousins was dealing today.

- of course it will

Post #: 3489

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 8:44:45 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20357
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Everyone here talking about defensive coaching, like tweaking defensive schemes is the answer.

In what universe?

There are about 4 talented defensive players, the rest would have trouble cracking a starting lineup anywhere. I got news. Nobody is going to coach them up into being pro bowlers.

The defensive woes are primarily personnel driven. Regardless of scheme, you just need guys who can make plays.

This last draft did nothing to improve our personnel unfortunately.

Post #: 3490

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 9:21:09 AM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

There are about 4 talented defensive players, the rest would have trouble cracking a starting lineup anywhere. I got news. Nobody is going to coach them up into being pro bowlers.

The Rams had 3 good players on defense last year: Donald, Miller and Ramsey. Had Donatell been their defensive coordinator, they would have been one and done, and people likely would have been saying that it looks like Donald has lost a step.

The Vikings have more good players, they have 5: Hunter, Z, Kendricks, Peterson and Smith.

A good scheme will hide the weaknesses.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3491

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 9:36:54 AM 1 votes

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30031
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
truth is, even with our horrific defense this is a game we would have won in our normal crazy style - if we didn't make so many other bad decisions/errors....

hockenson dropped pass for a 1st down....
4th down conversion fail...gave detroit short field....
cook fumble on detroit three yard line....
two-point conversion fail....
jefferson touchdown that was called stepped out...would have saved vikes 50 seconds....
onside kick...gave Detroit short field....
.

Normal crazy is the outlier. A dropped pass, a fumble, a blown call by the ref, a couple of 'aggressive' plays that didn't work, a failed two-point conversion are all part of a normal game.

Let's hope the law of averages from 12 games don't totally equalize over the next month.

Post #: 3492

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 11:14:54 AM

bongbong

Posts: 333
Joined: 10/27/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Everyone here talking about defensive coaching, like tweaking defensive schemes is the answer.

In what universe?

There are about 4 talented defensive players, the rest would have trouble cracking a starting lineup anywhere. I got news. Nobody is going to coach them up into being pro bowlers.

The defensive woes are primarily personnel driven. Regardless of scheme, you just need guys who can make plays.

You could be right, but every game we see some head scratchers. How does Cam Bynum, a safety, end up one-on-one with a WR on the goaline, having to cover the entire middle EZ with no help?!

RIP, Slim

Post #: 3493

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 11:16:39 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6036
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
truth is, even with our horrific defense this is a game we would have won in our normal crazy style - if we didn't make so many other bad decisions/errors....

hockenson dropped pass for a 1st down....
4th down conversion fail...gave detroit short field....
cook fumble on detroit three yard line....
two-point conversion fail....
jefferson touchdown that was called stepped out...would have saved vikes 50 seconds....
onside kick...gave Detroit short field....
.

Normal crazy is the outlier. A dropped pass, a fumble, a blown call by the ref, a couple of 'aggressive' plays that didn't work, a failed two-point conversion are all part of a normal game.

Let's hope the law of averages from 12 games don't totally equalize over the next month.

We have had an amazing season ... so far ... not by improving on either side of the ball ... not by looking better / more consistent than the other teams we have played ... not by getting on a roll or elevating into playoff form ...

We simply don't play better than any other team for more than a quarter or two. We have done it with the smoke and mirrors of not looking that good but making a few less mistakes, getting fewer bad breaks, and making a timely play or two in each game (that we didn't get blown out). Even our timely plays required help from the other team – like Jefferson's miracle catch, which required a miracle endzone fumble recovery. A lot of our timely plays were against another team's mediocre defense or offense + a mediocre starting / 2nd / 3rd string QB that still almost took the game from us.

Not all of it but a lot of it has been catching teams at the right moment.

10-3 ... its incredible how consistently we've risen to the top of a very diluted, watered-down, regular-season jar of cornichon pickles. But its playoff season now ... the law of averages does not favor our little pickle for success.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 12/13/2022 11:20:22 AM >

Post #: 3494

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 12:07:13 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36261
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Everyone here talking about defensive coaching, like tweaking defensive schemes is the answer.

In what universe?

There are about 4 talented defensive players, the rest would have trouble cracking a starting lineup anywhere. I got news. Nobody is going to coach them up into being pro bowlers.

The defensive woes are primarily personnel driven. Regardless of scheme, you just need guys who can make plays.

This last draft did nothing to improve our personnel unfortunately.

I agree it appears that way. Our top secondary picks have been injured so it's possible that they will help our defense next year. They couldn't make it worse. Evans with 3 concussions is certainly a huge concern though he was showing signs of improvement. We still know little about what Cine or Booth can do.

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" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 3495

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 3:50:49 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
truth is, even with our horrific defense this is a game we would have won in our normal crazy style - if we didn't make so many other bad decisions/errors....

hockenson dropped pass for a 1st down....
4th down conversion fail...gave detroit short field....
cook fumble on detroit three yard line....
two-point conversion fail....
jefferson touchdown that was called stepped out...would have saved vikes 50 seconds....
onside kick...gave Detroit short field....
.

Normal crazy is the outlier. A dropped pass, a fumble, a blown call by the ref, a couple of 'aggressive' plays that didn't work, a failed two-point conversion are all part of a normal game.

Let's hope the law of averages from 12 games don't totally equalize over the next month.

We have had an amazing season ... so far ... not by improving on either side of the ball ... not by looking better / more consistent than the other teams we have played ... not by getting on a roll or elevating into playoff form ...

We simply don't play better than any other team for more than a quarter or two. We have done it with the smoke and mirrors of not looking that good but making a few less mistakes, getting fewer bad breaks, and making a timely play or two in each game (that we didn't get blown out). Even our timely plays required help from the other team – like Jefferson's miracle catch, which required a miracle endzone fumble recovery. A lot of our timely plays were against another team's mediocre defense or offense + a mediocre starting / 2nd / 3rd string QB that still almost took the game from us.

Not all of it but a lot of it has been catching teams at the right moment.

10-3 ... its incredible how consistently we've risen to the top of a very diluted, watered-down, regular-season jar of cornichon pickles. But its playoff season now ... the law of averages does not favor our little pickle for success.

Flipping a penny, still got a 50-50 chance

Post #: 3496

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 6:02:17 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18405
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
truth is, even with our horrific defense this is a game we would have won in our normal crazy style - if we didn't make so many other bad decisions/errors....

hockenson dropped pass for a 1st down....
4th down conversion fail...gave detroit short field....
cook fumble on detroit three yard line....
two-point conversion fail....
jefferson touchdown that was called stepped out...would have saved vikes 50 seconds....
onside kick...gave Detroit short field....
.

Normal crazy is the outlier. A dropped pass, a fumble, a blown call by the ref, a couple of 'aggressive' plays that didn't work, a failed two-point conversion are all part of a normal game.

Let's hope the law of averages from 12 games don't totally equalize over the next month.

We have had an amazing season ... so far ... not by improving on either side of the ball ... not by looking better / more consistent than the other teams we have played ... not by getting on a roll or elevating into playoff form ...

We simply don't play better than any other team for more than a quarter or two. We have done it with the smoke and mirrors of not looking that good but making a few less mistakes, getting fewer bad breaks, and making a timely play or two in each game (that we didn't get blown out). Even our timely plays required help from the other team – like Jefferson's miracle catch, which required a miracle endzone fumble recovery. A lot of our timely plays were against another team's mediocre defense or offense + a mediocre starting / 2nd / 3rd string QB that still almost took the game from us.

Not all of it but a lot of it has been catching teams at the right moment.

10-3 ... its incredible how consistently we've risen to the top of a very diluted, watered-down, regular-season jar of cornichon pickles. But its playoff season now ... the law of averages does not favor our little pickle for success.

Flipping a penny, still got a 50-50 chance

Especially in the first two games. And speaking of law of averages, one of these NFCCGs has to go our way ... soon!

Hang in there people - what else have we got?

Post #: 3497

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 6:39:24 PM

marty

Posts: 13301
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Change DCs so the team has a shot.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3498

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 6:59:53 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

It wouldn’t surprise me if the DC gets canned it the defense sucks again this week.

Post #: 3499

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2022 7:29:09 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18405
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Not a chance our DC gets "canned" during the season.

Better off just getting used to the idea that he'll be here next year, too.

Post #: 3500

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