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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Every year that the Vikings hovered just either side of .500, there seemed to be those who would say that the Vikings were just handful of plays away from being a playoff team. This year the Vikings won 13 games and you could make the argument that the Vikings were several key plays away from being a 3 win team. I was at the Patriots game and in that one alone, the Vikings had great fortune. The referees missed a huge hold on Nwangwu's kick return for a TD. Ham had his arms around the man he was blocking and both hands were full of jersey. Nwangwu ran right past him as he was doing it. How the refs missed that one, I will never know. After that the Pats helped the Vikes game winning drive with two personal foul penalties.

Why bring this up? You can't look to next year and say if they just make just an incremental improvement in certain areas, they will x amount of games and make the playoffs again. The Vikings could have an incrementally better team on paper next year and come away with half as many wins. They have to look at this in terms of what are the components of a real contender and how do we put that together. This defense is old, slow as molasses in January and has the wrong players for the scheme. The offense featured guys like Cook and Thielen who are visibly losing steps. The line continues to be held together with two good blockers, bailing wire and chewing gum.

The long and short of it is that there are too many holes to fill in one off season. They need to start the process of a full rebuild now. Cut Thielen, Smith, Cook, Kendricks, Hicks, Ham

+1 (I am more on the full rebuild on the def side as many of the cuts are on that side of the ball)

May have to include not resigning Dalvin Tomlinson plus cutting/trading Hunter and ZED.....

So who is left on defense?

Who is any good on defense now?

Asamoah, Evans, Cine, Booth, Bynum, Phillips, Jones, Lynch, Tonga, Metullus, Blacklock, Boyd, Bullard, Dye, Otomewo, Vilain, Wonnum, and Dantzler (may be gone too).

That's my point. How far does all this money go when you need 6 or 8 starters on defense?

S Cine and Bynum Metullus backup
CB Evans and Booth (Dantzler, Boyd, Shelley)
LB Dye LB Asamoah
DL Phillips Tonga Bullard and Lynch Otomewo
OLB Vilain/Wonnum Jones

It isn't as bare as you are suggesting and it isn't much worse than the starters of 2022 before the draft, FA, and UDFA periods

They have added CB and LB to future contracts already.

That's even uglier than what I was picturing...

Just because you like guys or know their names makes them starters?

How many of those guys have an actual history of playing well as starters?

On paper its significantly worse than 2022...

I don't agree. I think the LB are better, faster for one.
Jones and Wonnum can rush. Again that is before the draft, FA, and UDFA and trades.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Every year that the Vikings hovered just either side of .500, there seemed to be those who would say that the Vikings were just handful of plays away from being a playoff team. This year the Vikings won 13 games and you could make the argument that the Vikings were several key plays away from being a 3 win team. I was at the Patriots game and in that one alone, the Vikings had great fortune. The referees missed a huge hold on Nwangwu's kick return for a TD. Ham had his arms around the man he was blocking and both hands were full of jersey. Nwangwu ran right past him as he was doing it. How the refs missed that one, I will never know. After that the Pats helped the Vikes game winning drive with two personal foul penalties.

Why bring this up? You can't look to next year and say if they just make just an incremental improvement in certain areas, they will x amount of games and make the playoffs again. The Vikings could have an incrementally better team on paper next year and come away with half as many wins. They have to look at this in terms of what are the components of a real contender and how do we put that together. This defense is old, slow as molasses in January and has the wrong players for the scheme. The offense featured guys like Cook and Thielen who are visibly losing steps. The line continues to be held together with two good blockers, bailing wire and chewing gum.

The long and short of it is that there are too many holes to fill in one off season. They need to start the process of a full rebuild now. Cut Thielen, Smith, Cook, Kendricks, Hicks, Ham

+1 (I am more on the full rebuild on the def side as many of the cuts are on that side of the ball)

May have to include not resigning Dalvin Tomlinson plus cutting/trading Hunter and ZED.....

So who is left on defense?

Who is any good on defense now?

Asamoah, Evans, Cine, Booth, Bynum, Phillips, Jones, Lynch, Tonga, Metullus, Blacklock, Boyd, Bullard, Dye, Otomewo, Vilain, Wonnum, and Dantzler (may be gone too).

That's my point. How far does all this money go when you need 6 or 8 starters on defense?

S Cine and Bynum Metullus backup
CB Evans and Booth (Dantzler, Boyd, Shelley)
LB Dye LB Asamoah
DL Phillips Tonga Bullard and Lynch Otomewo
OLB Vilain/Wonnum Jones

It isn't as bare as you are suggesting and it isn't much worse than the starters of 2022 before the draft, FA, and UDFA periods

They have added CB and LB to future contracts already.

That's even uglier than what I was picturing...

Just because you like guys or know their names makes them starters?

How many of those guys have an actual history of playing well as starters?

On paper its significantly worse than 2022...

I don't agree. I think the LB are better, faster for one.
Jones and Wonnum can rush. Again that is before the draft, FA, and UDFA and trades.

You can't be serious.

Asamoah Dye an improvement over Kendricks Hunt?

Last offseason, people in here (including you) were calling Kendricks near-elite and Hunt a solid FA value.

Asamoah and Dye are not automatically better because the other guys looked bad this year.

Booth, Cine?

You have consistently over time made these kind of pronouncements ...

We are a long way from knowing what the defense is going to look like going into camp but the line-up in your post would not only be 10 time worse than this year, it would be the first known suicide by defensive ineptitude.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: marty

I think we sabotaging by keeping Kirk.

Other than an accurate passer, and durability, what other strengths does he have as a QB ?

Do you realize he was pressured on 47% of his throws on Sunday (Jones was on 16%). What else is there (accuracy and durability are pretty much top of the list)--he has one of the strongest arms also?

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ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk has a strong arm. I am debating between him and Jones, not certain whom I would choose.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: marty

I think we sabotaging by keeping Kirk.

Other than an accurate passer, and durability, what other strengths does he have as a QB ?

Do you realize he was pressured on 47% of his throws on Sunday (Jones was on 16%). What else is there (accuracy and durability are pretty much top of the list)--he has one of the strongest arms also?

Jones was too busy avoiding pressure by gouging us with runs ...

Yes the IOL was terrible but Cousins pressure numbers are always going to be inflated by holding onto the ball to long / lack of pocket presence / etc.

Easier to compare a mastodon with a waterbug.

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ORIGINAL: marty

Yes the defense is hurting with regards to personnel, and someone raised the question of how it could be bad with both Zimmer and Donatell, that it has to be personnel.

Not true.

I would agree, if either of those DCs had won a Super Bowl as a DC. Neither has shown they are effective as playoff defensive coordinators, both also had some embarrassingly bad playoff losses. And I think Donatell is WORSE than Zimmer.

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ORIGINAL: marty

You have a point Brad, you're probably right, but let's see how Jones does next week, when he isn't facing an historically bad defense.

Cousins did play well in the 3rd quarter, unusual, he started early. Then ran out of gas for the last 2 drives.

The last play checkdown makes me believe Kirk either doesn't see things quickly (enough), or he just doesn't care all that much, doesn't have the strong desire to make it happen.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Every year that the Vikings hovered just either side of .500, there seemed to be those who would say that the Vikings were just handful of plays away from being a playoff team. This year the Vikings won 13 games and you could make the argument that the Vikings were several key plays away from being a 3 win team. I was at the Patriots game and in that one alone, the Vikings had great fortune. The referees missed a huge hold on Nwangwu's kick return for a TD. Ham had his arms around the man he was blocking and both hands were full of jersey. Nwangwu ran right past him as he was doing it. How the refs missed that one, I will never know. After that the Pats helped the Vikes game winning drive with two personal foul penalties.

Why bring this up? You can't look to next year and say if they just make just an incremental improvement in certain areas, they will x amount of games and make the playoffs again. The Vikings could have an incrementally better team on paper next year and come away with half as many wins. They have to look at this in terms of what are the components of a real contender and how do we put that together. This defense is old, slow as molasses in January and has the wrong players for the scheme. The offense featured guys like Cook and Thielen who are visibly losing steps. The line continues to be held together with two good blockers, bailing wire and chewing gum.

The long and short of it is that there are too many holes to fill in one off season. They need to start the process of a full rebuild now. Cut Thielen, Smith, Cook, Kendricks, Hicks, Ham

+1 (I am more on the full rebuild on the def side as many of the cuts are on that side of the ball)

May have to include not resigning Dalvin Tomlinson plus cutting/trading Hunter and ZED.....

So who is left on defense?

Who is any good on defense now?

Asamoah, Evans, Cine, Booth, Bynum, Phillips, Jones, Lynch, Tonga, Metullus, Blacklock, Boyd, Bullard, Dye, Otomewo, Vilain, Wonnum, and Dantzler (may be gone too).

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ORIGINAL: marty

Def. Coordinator available next year: Vic Fangio.

There are probably others, many that can be better for a playoff run than Zimmer or Donatell.

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ORIGINAL: marty

Def. Coordinator available next year: Vic Fangio.

There are probably others, many that can be better for a playoff run than Zimmer or Donatell.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Talk about resigning Bradbury...I would say hell no to that.

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ORIGINAL: bstinger

A competitive rebuild might squeak into a playoff seed again, but won't contend for a SB.

At some point we have to bottom out and make a real run at it.

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: bstinger

A competitive rebuild might squeak into a playoff seed again, but won't contend for a SB.

At some point we have to bottom out and make a real run at it.

This is how Kwesi pulls off the "competitive rebuild". He'll keep the offense in tact and jettison the aging, overpriced vets on defense. Ideally replacing them with younger, more athletic players. The defense could be worse, and drop from 31st in the league to 32nd, and still be competitive if the offense carries the team. Hopefully, some of the young guys turn out to be pretty good players. Then in 2024 we have an excellent offense, a defense that isn't burdened by overpriced vets, and $120 million in cap space to work with. Superbowl window wide open.

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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Talk about resigning Bradbury...I would say hell no to that.

Maybe for about 4M per and he has to compete for the job with someone besides camp fodder.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I inadvertently posted a ways back before I typed in the numbers. Here is the missing part.

Cut Thielen, Smith, Cook, Kendricks, Hicks, Ham and save about $57M. Find a trade for Cousins after June 1 and save another $30M. If we are going to stick with a 3/4, they might as well trade Hunter and trade of cut Phillips. If they go back to 4/3 then move Zeke.

These moves would clear $87 million in payroll. They also restructure O'Neal and save another $10 million on top of that. Target defensive youth and speed when they go shopping. There are under the radar players every year that step up for new teams. I would assume they would get some draft picks by moving Cousins along with either Hunter or Zeke. As I said before, it will mean a year of ugly. I don't think there is a viable alternative to living with a year of ugly. My fear with the competitive rebuild process is that it will just be a means to prolong mediocrity.

There are some guys I hate to see go. I'm a long time Kendricks fan, but the guy I watched last Sunday was trying in vain to keep up with the play. Harry plays a position that allows compensate for lost speed due to his football IQ. Sadly its time to move on. They can't continue to competitively rebuild around guys like this.