quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

The whole series was a cluster ****…

That’s on KOC.

“KC had no time…”

That’s different from the entire season, how?

Stop excusing a mediocre QB..

Just stop.

I'm no Cousins bobo. He's OK but If they decided to go another direction at QB that'd be fine with me. But don't say he made a bad 'decision' on the last play. Because it's just wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

No ... you are right. He goes into some detail about the route.

I had watched Warner's description of the play earlier, watched another web version several times and got confused.

My bad.

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

I still think Warner seems to interpret the play as a Jefferson / Hockensen read option only. There were other options.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

No ... you are right. He goes into some detail about the route.

I had watched Warner's description of the play earlier, watched another web version several times and got confused.

My bad.

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

I still think Warner seems to interpret the play as a Jefferson / Hockensen read option only. There were other options.

No. Within 2:20 in the video he says Hock was a no-go due to chipping and called a pass to JJ (I presume once he was in fact going to be doubled) "horrible".

Yes there were other options. Well, basically Osborn because he wouldn't throw to Theilen (implying the route design sucked). After re-watching, he never mentioned Cook. The 2023 Cook, ugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

No ... you are right. He goes into some detail about the route.

I had watched Warner's description of the play earlier, watched another web version several times and got confused.

My bad.

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

I still think Warner seems to interpret the play as a Jefferson / Hockensen read option only. There were other options.

No. Within 2:20 in the video he says Hock was a no-go due to chipping and called a pass to JJ (I presume once he was in fact going to be doubled) "horrible".

Yes there were other options. Well, basically Osborn because he wouldn't throw to Theilen (implying the route design sucked). After re-watching, he never mentioned Cook. The 2023 Cook, ugh.

You're splitting hairs.

It may not have been the right read or option, the designed option, but Cousins saw the double team on Jefferson and dumped the ball to Hock. That's what happened. I am not saying it was the intended outcome from the get go or that Warner thought those were the two primary routes in the playcall ... in fact, he goes on and on about what he would have done differently / what should have happened ...

Warner says he 'completely understands why Kirk did what he did' and 'there were no other good options' (right after describing Osborne breaking inside off of Thielen's route).

Jefferson got bracketed - the pocket collapsed - Cousins went to his next read Hock. A very narrow perception of what was available on the field.

quote:

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

Them not moving on from Donnashell yet has me thinking these guys haven't a clue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Okay I have to edit myself. I just rewatched the 4th down play, Cook had a defender 8 yds away not '10-15' like I stated above.

Still ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Kirk DID sabotage the 2022 season, by not getting a TD in either of his last 2 drives, and especially not really trying to convert the last 4th down pass.

The Vikings defensive coordinator made Kirk's job tough, and Kirk didn't rise to the occasion.

I don't want 'stability' at QB anymore, I want chance for greatness. And they should keep trying to draft that.

As shitty as that decision was (and it was very).....would it have mattered if he did? If they had 20 seconds on the clock and we kicked it out of the back of the endzone, how confident would you have been with us keeping them out of FG range?

Cousins literally did not have time to make a 'decision'.

Watch the play carefully. The pocket seemed normal for a split second, but quickly collapsed. There was a defender immediately up into Cousins on his left and another behind bearing down. He had less than 3 seconds. About 2.5. There are no 'check downs', no surveying the field, no weighing options in 2.5 seconds. He threw the ball as quickly as he could to the receiver in his line of sight. Because any completion (and hoping for some YAC) is better than getting sacked.

Now maybe you could argue a more agile QB could have avoided the pressure and bought a little more time. That's fair. But it would have taken an amazing play. A Minneapolis Miracle II.

Go back and watch kurt Warner's breakdown and if you don't take his word for it then so be it. 2.5 seconds is exactly the point where ESPN's Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) threshold is. If the line holds for 2.5 seconds or more its a win. Less than 2.5 seconds its a loss. In other words, 2.5 seconds is what should be expected.

In regards to a more mobile QB - it would not have taken a miracle to avoid that pressure. A couple of steps and a pump fake would have done it.

Go back and watch Kurt the QB apologist Warner's breakdown and tell us where Cook and Osborne were on the play ...

Since Warner didn't cover that.

I know, 'why should I take some dumbass fan's opinion over Kurt Warner's' ... I get it.

But take a look. And be honest.

Alright I'm being serious here - what does this even mean? Warner DID cover where Osborne was on the play. He also said that was the correct read and throw. He also said Hockenson should never have even been in consideration once he chipped.

Am I missing something here?

No ... you are right. He goes into some detail about the route.

I had watched Warner's description of the play earlier, watched another web version several times and got confused.

My bad.

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

I still think Warner seems to interpret the play as a Jefferson / Hockensen read option only. There were other options.

No. Within 2:20 in the video he says Hock was a no-go due to chipping and called a pass to JJ (I presume once he was in fact going to be doubled) "horrible".

Yes there were other options. Well, basically Osborn because he wouldn't throw to Theilen (implying the route design sucked). After re-watching, he never mentioned Cook. The 2023 Cook, ugh.

You're splitting hairs.

It may not have been the right read or option, the designed option, but Cousins saw the double team on Jefferson and dumped the ball to Hock. That's what happened. I am not saying it was the intended outcome from the get go or that Warner thought those were the two primary routes in the playcall ... in fact, he goes on and on about what he would have done differently / what should have happened ...

Warner says he 'completely understands why Kirk did what he did' and 'there were no other good options' (right after describing Osborne breaking inside off of Thielen's route).

Jefferson got bracketed - the pocket collapsed - Cousins went to his next read Hock. A very narrow perception of what was available on the field.

quote:

https://twitter.com/kurt13warner/status/1615019673908842498

From Warner's analysis (and I have a lot of respect for a QB who took 2 different teams to superbowls)
1) What a shitty play for 4th and 8 and your SEASON.
2) Kirk made a bad decision.

Right off the bat Kurt eliminates Thielen as the route has such a low chance of success.
Jefferson is put on the outside where the Giants have the best opportunity to take him out of the play.
Hock chips which takes him out of the play.
JESUS... talk about setting Kirk up for failure.

Warner very clearly states you should be peeking at JJ and if you don't like what you see you should be reading left to middle route of KJ.
Clearly he thinks Kirk threw the wrong option.

KOC and Kirk can hold hands in the blame taking... a terrible last play to a pretty amazing season.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Okay I have to edit myself. I just rewatched the 4th down play, Cook had a defender 8 yds away not '10-15' like I stated above.

Still ...

While not ideal, dumping it off to Cook would have given us a better chance at getting the first down than a well covered Hock.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
Tom: It was a semantics interpretation thing with your post, as I interpreted 'only' as the only place KC should be going.

Beo: Spot on regarding the bolded part of your post. And even with Osborn being the only viable option, Warner wasn't sure what kind of route he was running.

Was that KOC's "season on the line play"? Ugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Startribune article that fox sports radio picked up on

Drafted 35 defensive players in 2016-2022 drafts. One starter.

Maybe the Vikings and TWolves share a scouting department.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

They need to acquire a RB with some wiggle and who catches the ball fluidly.

Cook has lost whatever he had, love FA Mattison but he's not that guy, and Chandler seems more of a smooth DJ Dozier type where he looks good but isn't really impactful and doesn't do anything real well.