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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 1:49:52 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline 		With the H Smith signing it looks like the team still needs the following via FA and the draft:

(2)CB
WR2
DT
ILB
OG
QBOTF - (Hendon Hooker)

Seems doable.

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If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 6926
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 2:18:20 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 33146
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

With the H Smith signing it looks like the team still needs the following via FA and the draft:

(2)CB
WR2
DT
ILB
OG
QBOTF - (Hendon Hooker)

Seems doable.


It is highly unlikely we can fill those needs this year with even upper tier talent. Another way to say it is the odds of hitting on all seven in terms of championship level talent with little cap, little left in the FA market, and no 2nd rounder are like 1000:1.
Post #: 6927
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 2:48:53 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
·
45m
#Vikings re-signing OL Austin Schlottman, per source. Schlottman started four games for Minnesota last season.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6928
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 3:58:36 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

With the H Smith signing it looks like the team still needs the following via FA and the draft:

(2)CB
WR2
DT
ILB
OG
QBOTF - (Hendon Hooker)

Seems doable.


It is highly unlikely we can fill those needs this year with even upper tier talent. Another way to say it is the odds of hitting on all seven in terms of championship level talent with little cap, little left in the FA market, and no 2nd rounder are like 1000:1.


Unlikely, but not impossible. I think the Vikings can/will still sign someone like Duke Shelley and DJ Chark via FA. That would leave CB, DT, LB, OG for the draft. Probably won't hit on all of them but it is supposed to be a deep draft at CB so those odds help the cause.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 6929
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 3:58:41 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 40711
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

With the H Smith signing it looks like the team still needs the following via FA and the draft:

(2)CB
WR2
DT
ILB
OG
QBOTF - (Hendon Hooker)

Seems doable.


It is highly unlikely we can fill those needs this year with even upper tier talent. Another way to say it is the odds of hitting on all seven in terms of championship level talent with little cap, little left in the FA market, and no 2nd rounder are like 1000:1.



We don't NEED to hit on all of them. KJ Osborn will move seamlessly into the WR2 position...Reagar and Nailor can fight it out for WR3. We do have Akayleb Evans and Andrew Booth. Booth is very talented, the knock on him is can he stay even remotely healthy. Evans showed some moxy out there last year but had multiple concussions....

The hope is probably that Ingram will continue to develope and get better than the shitstorm he was last year. Asamoah is going to step into the ILB role so we more need depth there.

QBOTF should be a top priority in the draft. Cousins will not likely be back after this coming season....so we need his replacement NOW.

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Post #: 6930
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 4:07:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 33146
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

With the H Smith signing it looks like the team still needs the following via FA and the draft:

(2)CB
WR2
DT
ILB
OG
QBOTF - (Hendon Hooker)

Seems doable.


It is highly unlikely we can fill those needs this year with even upper tier talent. Another way to say it is the odds of hitting on all seven in terms of championship level talent with little cap, little left in the FA market, and no 2nd rounder are like 1000:1.


Unlikely, but not impossible. I think the Vikings can/will still sign someone like Duke Shelley and DJ Chark via FA. That would leave CB, DT, LB, OG for the draft. Probably won't hit on all of them but it is supposed to be a deep draft at CB so those odds help the cause.


I hope we can sign Shelley.

With several positions going to draftees and the cost/talent issues with free agency, I don't see a lot happening in terms of roster turnover until the draft. Again, Shelley or a nickel CB. Maybe an OL depth signing and/or a middling 4WR.

CB in the draft then DL/LB as you said.
Post #: 6931
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 4:19:04 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 33146
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

With the H Smith signing it looks like the team still needs the following via FA and the draft:

(2)CB
WR2
DT
ILB
OG
QBOTF - (Hendon Hooker)

Seems doable.


It is highly unlikely we can fill those needs this year with even upper tier talent. Another way to say it is the odds of hitting on all seven in terms of championship level talent with little cap, little left in the FA market, and no 2nd rounder are like 1000:1.



We don't NEED to hit on all of them. KJ Osborn will move seamlessly into the WR2 position...Reagar and Nailor can fight it out for WR3. We do have Akayleb Evans and Andrew Booth. Booth is very talented, the knock on him is can he stay even remotely healthy. Evans showed some moxy out there last year but had multiple concussions....

The hope is probably that Ingram will continue to develope and get better than the shitstorm he was last year. Asamoah is going to step into the ILB role so we more need depth there.

QBOTF should be a top priority in the draft. Cousins will not likely be back after this coming season....so we need his replacement NOW.


Reagar is trash but Nailor has some promise. Booth had no clue out there. Evans as you said did show moxy, and I would put him ahead of Booth but yes the concussions are worrisome. Agree, hoping Ingram develops and LB.

Booth, Cine, the others... another evaluation year. I think it's more likely we'll have a fighting chance - with the incumbents and next year's acquisitions - to hit on those positions after the 2024 offseason. IOW, year 3 of a 3-year rebuild.

Yep... QB remains...
Post #: 6932
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 8:13:47 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Sean Murphy Bunting or Shelley?

Rumors are we are talking to Bunting.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6933
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/16/2023 11:40:22 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 6229
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).


Yeah I still see CB as the biggest need, especially with needing three CBs. Murphy has one spot, but right now it appears Evans and Booth have the other two. CB sounds like the pick at 23, merging need with a premium position.

Hunter, Za, and Hicks will be gone next year, if not sooner. Fine with signing an under the radar type and using the 3rd rounder on LB. Or a 3-4 DE.

Would Tonga replace Tomlinson in your old-new player comparo above?

3WR seems a bridge too far, although there are always mid-to-low tier FAs we can pencil in to make it look good on paper. Maybe Nailor makes a leap.

Yes, I agree that on paper Tonga will replace Tomlinson but only on the inside / in run situations. Tonga played a lot less overall (276 snaps to DT's 551) and I believe Dalvin moved around the line more because he's supposed to have more pass rushing oomph ... I guess it depends on if they view Tonga as rotational or ready for a 'full load' (Tomlinson only played 47.46% / Tonga 23.77% of all defensive snaps so when I say full load I only mean 'the starter in certain situations'). I'll be shocked if we don't sign another 3-technique at some point.

Cleveland gave Tomlinson a 4YR 57M 27.5M Guaranteed contract compared to Phillips getting a 3YR 19.5M 12.9M Guaranteed contract from us the year before ... Phillips played more snaps and had more tackles (45 solo / 31 Ast / 3 TFL / 1.5 S / 5 QB hits) to Tomlinson's 20 Solo / 22 Ast / 3 TFL / 2.5 sacks / 10 QB hits. So essentially Cleveland gave 'versatile' Tomlinson 14.5M more than run specialist Phillips for 1 extra sack and 5 more QB hits. So long Dalvin!


Good stuff. Just want to point out Tonga was an in-season acquisition and suited up for 11 games. He played 36% of the available snaps. Overall I think we have the same questions about him playing a lot more. And he is less versatile.

True although I think Tomlinson missed time / only played in 13 games ... which skews comparison for Phillips as well since he played in all 17 games ... so production by snap count gets bumped up for Tomlinson and Tonga, reduced for Phillips.

EDIT: Oh and by the way ... Tonga's 36% snap count is for both def / ST snaps. Def snap % remains at 23.77. BOOM! that draws us even after your Osborn / Osborne reprimand from a few days ago.


276 D snaps (36%), 58 ST snaps (17%)... HA!

You must be using 'Norton Flimsy's Totally Legit Pro Football Stat Emporium' as a reference.
Post #: 6934
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 6:42:41 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41760
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		NFL Next Gen Stats
Minnesota Vikings: D+
Key additions: CB Byron Murphy (Cardinals), TE Josh Oliver (Ravens), DE Marcus Davenport (Saints); Key re-signings: QB Nick Mullens, C Garrett Bradbury, K Greg Joseph

The Vikings currently have the least amount of cap space in the entire NFL, so there's not a whole lot they can do. However, giving former New Orleans Saint Marcus Davenport $13 million on a one-year deal even though he's coming off what may be the worst season of his career at 26 years old in 2022 is a whiff. Signing former Arizona Cardinals cornerback Byron Murphy to a two-year, $22 million contract is upgrade to what was the NFL's second-worst total defense a year ago (388.7 total yards per game allowed) behind only the Lions.

The signing of former Baltimore Ravens tight end Josh Oliver to a three-year, $21 million contract with a career stat line of 26 catches for 230 receiving yards and two touchdowns at 25 years old is insanity. Unless Minnesota plans to make an out-of-nowhere run at Lamar Jackson, this signing makes even less sense than the Davenport money.


++++

The Lamar talk is out of left field but the rating accurate.

2 D free agencies and a D draft.

Kwesi D.
Post #: 6935
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 7:14:38 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41760
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Has this FA seem subdued to anyone else or is it me still stuck with a season hangover?

Few big splashes and what looks like a concerted effort to bring contracts down. Esp @ backup/fringe starter QB.
Post #: 6936
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 7:45:57 AM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 16459
Status: offline 		Untill we off load the deadwood.. free up cap and future cap, there is not a lot to do or say about this FA season..

I want more cuts..

Cook, ZS, other marginals, like Hicks, reagor, There are players we do Not need..

I want a purge

I won’t get one..

Playing kick the cap down the road to remain “ competitive “..
is full blown folly.

JMO..

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 3/17/2023 7:47:47 AM >

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Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who
Post #: 6937
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 7:49:44 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41760
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		I didn't mean just us. FA in general.
Post #: 6938
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 7:53:05 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Untill we off load the deadwood.. free up cap and future cap, there is not a lot to do or say about this FA season..

I want more cuts..

Cook, ZS, other marginals, like Hicks, reagor, There are players we do Not need..

I want a purge

I won’t get one..

Playing kick the cap down the road to remain “ competitive “..
is full blown folly.

JMO..


Dan I think that is what they are doing with Smith and tried to do with Thielen. Those extensions were just so bad; that the only fix for Smith was basically keep him at a million or two above his dead cap. Thielen will learn that is what his market is also.....

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/17/2023 7:55:11 AM >

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6939
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 7:56:36 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		UUGHH>


Joe Spinosa
@realjoespinosa
·
2m
Should’ve just cut him & saved the full $5m while signing a stud young LB for cheap
Quote Tweet
Ben Goessling
@BenGoessling
·
22m
Details for Jordan Hicks' contract restructure with the #Vikings are finally in.

He gets a $3.25M base salary this year, up to $200K in per-game roster bonuses and a $50K workout bonus.

His base dropped by $1.2M, and per-game bonuses dropped by $300K. Total savings of $1.5M.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6940
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 7:57:44 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Rumor is that the physical on Davenport is the hold up.

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SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6941
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:02:14 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41760
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Rumor is that the physical on Davenport is the hold up.


What you get when you shop scratch and dent sales so much.
Post #: 6942
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:04:04 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Rumor is that the physical on Davenport is the hold up.


What you get when you shop scratch and dent sales so much.


The problem is all the players have scratch and dents....they say that applies to baseball pitchers also.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6943
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:04:37 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18444
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		I personally feel that guys is full of shit up to his ears but that's just me.

I don't have a clue what it would of taken to have had an A in the illegal tampering period and FA. Does anyone?

I do believe signing this TE has more to do with what KOC wanted than Kwesi.

We had a mess and this one approach. Was it a fail or do we not know yet? "We'll see" is my guess.

One sentence out of Seifert's analysis of signing Bradberry: The Vikings made a calculated analysis that upgrading beyond his skill level wouldn't be the best use of their limited assets, and it's something they'll have to accommodate over the next few seasons.
Post #: 6944
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:08:36 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J
I personally feel that guys is full of shit up to his ears but that's just me.
I don't have a clue what it would of taken to have had an A in the illegal tampering period and FA. Does anyone?
I do believe signing this TE has more to do with what KOC wanted than Kwesi.
We had a mess and this one approach. Was it a fail or do we not know yet? "We'll see" is my guess.
One sentence out of Seifert's analysis of signing Bradberry: The Vikings made a calculated analysis that upgrading beyond his skill level wouldn't be the best use of their limited assets, and it's something they'll have to accommodate over the next few seasons.


It is part of KOC scheme....those little free pass plays that gained 3-5 yards with Mundt will go 10-15 with athletic blocking TEs (Ellefson and Oliver). (LA had Higbee, Everett) The Rams did that constantly.

Bradberry did improve quite a bit last year to at least around average & maybe another year in the scheme. This is also something LA did as they had our washed C and LG but had 2 very good OT.

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SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6945
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:15:28 AM   
beo

 

Posts: 2573
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I didn't mean just us. FA in general.


I don't think there are really any "big names" that moved.

Javon Hargrave? Nice but don't know that he is a superstar
Deron Payne? Resigned or tagged by Commanders
Jamel Dean? Resigned with Bucs
Tremaine Edmunds I like a bunch but I don't anyone was outbidding Chicago
Dalvin Tomlinson... just a guy

Pretty ho hum
Post #: 6946
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:15:35 AM   
stfrank

 

Posts: 12564
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Untill we off load the deadwood.. free up cap and future cap, there is not a lot to do or say about this FA season..

I want more cuts..

Cook, ZS, other marginals, like Hicks, reagor, There are players we do Not need..

I want a purge

I won’t get one..

Playing kick the cap down the road to remain “ competitive “..
is full blown folly.

JMO..

On the bright side..... we can see the end of the Kirk Cousins era on the horizon.
Once that horrendous contract is off our books, along with many others, a so-called competitive rebuild may begin.
Post #: 6947
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:22:54 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		With Cousins gone after next season and likely playing a rookie QB in 2024 the dead cap type stuff likely won't matter match with the Cousin's savings.

Kwesi can make a lot of splashy moves and salary cap slide rule stuff but his job is tied to getting the next QB correct. I doubt he gets two chances at it.
Post #: 6948
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:27:32 AM  1 votes
Phil Riewer


Posts: 32136
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall
With Cousins gone after next season and likely playing a rookie QB in 2024 the dead cap type stuff likely won't matter match with the Cousin's savings.
Kwesi can make a lot of splashy moves and salary cap slide rule stuff but his job is tied to getting the next QB correct. I doubt he gets two chances at it.


I wouldn't be so sure (about Cousins). Again it wasn't Cousins contract that put us in hell but the extensions of older players, poor contracts, and especially the 27 million of dead cap (it will be worse) on this years cap and the 28 million of dead cap on last years.

56 Million can buy a lot of starters in FA.

That has 0.0% to do with Kirk, KOC, or Kwesi and the exact reason Spielman was fired. Brez works the cap after he is told what is needed.

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6949
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2023 8:27:43 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 6229
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Untill we off load the deadwood.. free up cap and future cap, there is not a lot to do or say about this FA season..

I want more cuts..

Cook, ZS, other marginals, like Hicks, reagor, There are players we do Not need..

I want a purge

I won’t get one..

Playing kick the cap down the road to remain “ competitive “..
is full blown folly.

JMO..

On the bright side..... we can see the end of the Kirk Cousins era on the horizon.
Once that horrendous contract is off our books, along with many others, a so-called competitive rebuild may begin.

I’ve read commentary that the reworking of the contract does both, ensures that KC only has one year left and also guarantees that there will be an extension to incorporate all the dead money rolled over.

I’ will believe its only one year left when I see it. And playing one year or not, KCs contract will strangle this team for 3 more years min.
Post #: 6950
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