quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

i'm a bit surprised so many want to cut Z.

He pretty much was our pass rush the first half of the season while Hunter was still adjusting.

I keep him. You simply can't have enough good pass rushers. There are other position groups where cap savings can be milked out.

Where is Davenport playing? He is similar to Hunter in terms of height/weight, which would suggest OLB. In which case are you ok with a cap-strapped team playing big bucks to three OLBs when only two can be on the field? Or are you expecting them to get injured? Seems cheaper backups are usually called on to fill-in.

Davenport has been a 4-3 DE for NO since being drafted. Thus he will look like a fish out of water for 8-10 games like Hunter did.

This is why keeping Z on the roster makes perfect sense. We can cut corners salary cap elsewhere. IE: Hock/JJ ext will both lower the cap hit. Last year when Z got hurt our pass rush was ineffective. Having a 3rd guy with serious pass rush credentials could move the needle toward a more effective defense for an entire season and possible playoff run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Z had the same amount of sacks as Hunter did last season. Why is everyone wanting him to walk the gallows and not Hunter?

Short term memory? Z was amazing for 10 games until the knee contusion. He could have sat in the hot tub but he insisted on playing and all everyone wants to do is cut him.

Be careful what you wish for when stiffs like Mike White and Cooper Rush look like all pros against us. Putting heat on the qb is what todays NFL is geared around (unless your name is Brad Hoiseth). We need every abled body we can that has a swim move.

I simply don't care for players that don't want to be here. They're dead to me.

Edit: if the rumors about Zad wanting out are true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Well hell. Of the remaining big contracts, Harrison Smith's $19M, $19M, $22M through 2025 needs to be shredded then incinerated.

Maybe the problem is if he is cut, the dead cap is $11.7M and the cap savings is only $7.4M. Not sure, but that could put us in negative cap. Would rather the dead cap be in 2023, but it may not be allowed I don't know.

Whereas if he is designated a post-June 1 cut, those numbers are $4M and $15M. I think you can cut up to two players early and designate them as post-June 1 cuts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

i'm a bit surprised so many want to cut Z.

He pretty much was our pass rush the first half of the season while Hunter was still adjusting.

I keep him. You simply can't have enough good pass rushers. There are other position groups where cap savings can be milked out.

Where is Davenport playing? He is similar to Hunter in terms of height/weight, which would suggest OLB. In which case are you ok with a cap-strapped team playing big bucks to three OLBs when only two can be on the field? Or are you expecting them to get injured? Seems cheaper backups are usually called on to fill-in.

Davenport has been a 4-3 DE for NO since being drafted. Thus he will look like a fish out of water for 8-10 games like Hunter did.

This is why keeping Z on the roster makes perfect sense. We can cut corners salary cap elsewhere. IE: Hock/JJ ext will both lower the cap hit. Last year when Z got hurt our pass rush was ineffective. Having a 3rd guy with serious pass rush credentials could move the needle toward a more effective defense for an entire season and possible playoff run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Anyone going to be surprised if they keep Cook for one more year?

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ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Anyone going to be surprised if they keep Cook for one more year?

Yes. And I'll question the hell out of them for spending 20 million on the position. Why draft a RB (Chandler) with the relative high draft choice last year?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).

Yeah I still see CB as the biggest need, especially with needing three CBs. Murphy has one spot, but right now it appears Evans and Booth have the other two. CB sounds like the pick at 23, merging need with a premium position.

Hunter, Za, and Hicks will be gone next year, if not sooner. Fine with signing an under the radar type and using the 3rd rounder on LB. Or a 3-4 DE.

Would Tonga replace Tomlinson in your old-new player comparo above?

3WR seems a bridge too far, although there are always mid-to-low tier FAs we can pencil in to make it look good on paper. Maybe Nailor makes a leap.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).

Yeah I still see CB as the biggest need, especially with needing three CBs. Murphy has one spot, but right now it appears Evans and Booth have the other two. CB sounds like the pick at 23, merging need with a premium position.

Hunter, Za, and Hicks will be gone next year, if not sooner. Fine with signing an under the radar type and using the 3rd rounder on LB. Or a 3-4 DE.

Would Tonga replace Tomlinson in your old-new player comparo above?

3WR seems a bridge too far, although there are always mid-to-low tier FAs we can pencil in to make it look good on paper. Maybe Nailor makes a leap.

Yes, I agree that on paper Tonga will replace Tomlinson but only on the inside / in run situations. Tonga played a lot less overall (276 snaps to DT's 551) and I believe Dalvin moved around the line more because he's supposed to have more pass rushing oomph ... I guess it depends on if they view Tonga as rotational or ready for a 'full load' (Tomlinson only played 47.46% / Tonga 23.77% of all defensive snaps so when I say full load I only mean 'the starter in certain situations'). I'll be shocked if we don't sign another 3-technique at some point.

Cleveland gave Tomlinson a 4YR 57M 27.5M Guaranteed contract compared to Phillips getting a 3YR 19.5M 12.9M Guaranteed contract from us the year before ... Phillips played more snaps and had more tackles (45 solo / 31 Ast / 3 TFL / 1.5 S / 5 QB hits) to Tomlinson's 20 Solo / 22 Ast / 3 TFL / 2.5 sacks / 10 QB hits. So essentially Cleveland gave 'versatile' Tomlinson 14.5M more than run specialist Phillips for 1 extra sack and 5 more QB hits. So long Dalvin!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Why doesn't Cook do something like that. The market is not good and injured should look dicey to him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Why doesn't Cook do something like that. The market is not good and injured should look dicey to him.

Dalvin also never got the early money that Harry did as a 2nd round pick. I believe this is Harry's third contract and Cook is on his 2nd.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).

Yeah I still see CB as the biggest need, especially with needing three CBs. Murphy has one spot, but right now it appears Evans and Booth have the other two. CB sounds like the pick at 23, merging need with a premium position.

Hunter, Za, and Hicks will be gone next year, if not sooner. Fine with signing an under the radar type and using the 3rd rounder on LB. Or a 3-4 DE.

Would Tonga replace Tomlinson in your old-new player comparo above?

3WR seems a bridge too far, although there are always mid-to-low tier FAs we can pencil in to make it look good on paper. Maybe Nailor makes a leap.

Yes, I agree that on paper Tonga will replace Tomlinson but only on the inside / in run situations. Tonga played a lot less overall (276 snaps to DT's 551) and I believe Dalvin moved around the line more because he's supposed to have more pass rushing oomph ... I guess it depends on if they view Tonga as rotational or ready for a 'full load' (Tomlinson only played 47.46% / Tonga 23.77% of all defensive snaps so when I say full load I only mean 'the starter in certain situations'). I'll be shocked if we don't sign another 3-technique at some point.

Cleveland gave Tomlinson a 4YR 57M 27.5M Guaranteed contract compared to Phillips getting a 3YR 19.5M 12.9M Guaranteed contract from us the year before ... Phillips played more snaps and had more tackles (45 solo / 31 Ast / 3 TFL / 1.5 S / 5 QB hits) to Tomlinson's 20 Solo / 22 Ast / 3 TFL / 2.5 sacks / 10 QB hits. So essentially Cleveland gave 'versatile' Tomlinson 14.5M more than run specialist Phillips for 1 extra sack and 5 more QB hits. So long Dalvin!

Good stuff. Just want to point out Tonga was an in-season acquisition and suited up for 11 games. He played 36% of the available snaps. Overall I think we have the same questions about him playing a lot more. And he is less versatile.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).

Yeah I still see CB as the biggest need, especially with needing three CBs. Murphy has one spot, but right now it appears Evans and Booth have the other two. CB sounds like the pick at 23, merging need with a premium position.

Hunter, Za, and Hicks will be gone next year, if not sooner. Fine with signing an under the radar type and using the 3rd rounder on LB. Or a 3-4 DE.

Would Tonga replace Tomlinson in your old-new player comparo above?

3WR seems a bridge too far, although there are always mid-to-low tier FAs we can pencil in to make it look good on paper. Maybe Nailor makes a leap.

Yes, I agree that on paper Tonga will replace Tomlinson but only on the inside / in run situations. Tonga played a lot less overall (276 snaps to DT's 551) and I believe Dalvin moved around the line more because he's supposed to have more pass rushing oomph ... I guess it depends on if they view Tonga as rotational or ready for a 'full load' (Tomlinson only played 47.46% / Tonga 23.77% of all defensive snaps so when I say full load I only mean 'the starter in certain situations'). I'll be shocked if we don't sign another 3-technique at some point.

Cleveland gave Tomlinson a 4YR 57M 27.5M Guaranteed contract compared to Phillips getting a 3YR 19.5M 12.9M Guaranteed contract from us the year before ... Phillips played more snaps and had more tackles (45 solo / 31 Ast / 3 TFL / 1.5 S / 5 QB hits) to Tomlinson's 20 Solo / 22 Ast / 3 TFL / 2.5 sacks / 10 QB hits. So essentially Cleveland gave 'versatile' Tomlinson 14.5M more than run specialist Phillips for 1 extra sack and 5 more QB hits. So long Dalvin!

Good stuff. Just want to point out Tonga was an in-season acquisition and suited up for 11 games. He played 36% of the available snaps. Overall I think we have the same questions about him playing a lot more. And he is less versatile.

True although I think Tomlinson missed time / only played in 13 games ... which skews comparison for Phillips as well since he played in all 17 games ... so production by snap count gets bumped up for Tomlinson and Tonga, reduced for Phillips.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Current state: I suppose Tomlinson counts as a loss by not being resigned although Davenport may or may not fill some of that gap; Kendricks will be replaced by speedier younger but hasnt proven anything as a starter Asamoah; Thielen will be replaced by younger springier Osborn; Peterson will be replaced by less durable but better Murphy; all TEs not named Hock will be upgraded by Oliver.

It looks like Cook may be replaced by Mattison/Chandler; Harry may be replaced by hasnt proven a dam thing except he has nowhere else to go or hang out other than the practice facility Cine; Zad may be replaced by ??? (if Davenport then reopen the Tomlinson hole) …

At a bare minimum, we still need Shelley or one durable veteran cb to offset our walking wounded. And a third wr. (I have no idea how the defense will be configured, who of the young DL and LBs we actually value so I’ll leave that alone for now).

Yeah I still see CB as the biggest need, especially with needing three CBs. Murphy has one spot, but right now it appears Evans and Booth have the other two. CB sounds like the pick at 23, merging need with a premium position.

Hunter, Za, and Hicks will be gone next year, if not sooner. Fine with signing an under the radar type and using the 3rd rounder on LB. Or a 3-4 DE.

Would Tonga replace Tomlinson in your old-new player comparo above?

3WR seems a bridge too far, although there are always mid-to-low tier FAs we can pencil in to make it look good on paper. Maybe Nailor makes a leap.

Yes, I agree that on paper Tonga will replace Tomlinson but only on the inside / in run situations. Tonga played a lot less overall (276 snaps to DT's 551) and I believe Dalvin moved around the line more because he's supposed to have more pass rushing oomph ... I guess it depends on if they view Tonga as rotational or ready for a 'full load' (Tomlinson only played 47.46% / Tonga 23.77% of all defensive snaps so when I say full load I only mean 'the starter in certain situations'). I'll be shocked if we don't sign another 3-technique at some point.

Cleveland gave Tomlinson a 4YR 57M 27.5M Guaranteed contract compared to Phillips getting a 3YR 19.5M 12.9M Guaranteed contract from us the year before ... Phillips played more snaps and had more tackles (45 solo / 31 Ast / 3 TFL / 1.5 S / 5 QB hits) to Tomlinson's 20 Solo / 22 Ast / 3 TFL / 2.5 sacks / 10 QB hits. So essentially Cleveland gave 'versatile' Tomlinson 14.5M more than run specialist Phillips for 1 extra sack and 5 more QB hits. So long Dalvin!

Good stuff. Just want to point out Tonga was an in-season acquisition and suited up for 11 games. He played 36% of the available snaps. Overall I think we have the same questions about him playing a lot more. And he is less versatile.

True although I think Tomlinson missed time / only played in 13 games ... which skews comparison for Phillips as well since he played in all 17 games ... so production by snap count gets bumped up for Tomlinson and Tonga, reduced for Phillips.

EDIT: Oh and by the way ... Tonga's 36% snap count is for both def / ST snaps. Def snap % remains at 23.77. BOOM! that draws us even after your Osborn / Osborne reprimand from a few days ago.