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RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 4:54:47 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online 		I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.
Post #: 7526
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 5:00:04 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5708
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Hooker should only be taken in the 3rd round, or later.

I can't get past the name. Hendon Hooker is a name like Christian Ponder, it sounds like a name I can't imagine winning a Super Bowl.

I have cancelled many names off the list for just how they sounded, and it's been pretty close to 100%.

Say no to Hooker, say no to fantasy, get a real life franchise QB.

That's right and say no to prescriptive analytics ... descriptive, diagnostic and predictive analytics ...

but say hello to hootin' and tootin' analytics.


He's definitely said no to prescriptions.

Go ahead and scoff but I wouldn't mind Kwesi beatboxing and sounding out prospect names in the war room.

At least Marty has a system.
Post #: 7527
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 5:17:55 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5708
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

There's only one or two QBs each draft that don't quantify as poop.

Even your Youngs and Strouds are risky projections ...

That shouldn't discourage the regime from yodeling QB names whenever they're on the clock.
Post #: 7528
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 5:20:18 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5708
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		OK beat that one to death. Moving on.
Post #: 7529
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 6:01:52 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		On Moving the Chains today they did their mock draft where Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller take turns picking for each of the teams. The five QBs didn't make it out of the first 10 picks. Hooker WILL NOT be available at 23. Our best bet is to try and find a way to get a shot at Caleb Williams in 2024. If he still looks as good in 2024 as he does now then trade everything to be able to pick him in the 2024 draft.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 7530
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 9:28:17 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12840
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

I doubt we even get a shot at Hooker..

But like I said.. we have to keep taking shots at QBOTF..

until we find one..

I don’t even care if it’s a UDFA…

We have to put bodies through the process because KFC is pyrite.

I can almost guarantee that it is going to be a face plant season in 2023..

I see us easily having a pick in the top 16 and finishing third in our own division..

Detroit and Chicago will be in the hunt, while the roger-less puke could completely tank..

I have no faith that we will win more than a few one score games, our defense will need to improve exponentially, just to be average.

Since 2000 this franchise has finished above .500, in consecutive seasons only in 2008 and 2009.

22 years and just 2 consecutive winning seasons.

I’m sick of this ride..

Just call me Danny Downer..

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 7531
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/7/2023 11:20:52 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28251
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

You just described Lamar Jackson
Post #: 7532
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/8/2023 12:55:33 PM   
marty


Posts: 12690
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Even with Kirk Cousins at QB, I think the Vikings will challenge Detroit for the division (but I wouldn't count the Puke out). I have a feeling Fields will get hurt, and Chicago will finish last in the division again.

The defense will be slightly better, the addition Flores is an upgrade over Donatell, but there will be veteran leadership lacking, and there may be some lack of cohesion on it.

The offense should be similar, Cousin's 2nd year in a fine system with KOC.

I see no reason why the Vikings won't again win a fair amount of one score games. Losing Cook could hurt, as he was sort of a catalyst for comebacks.

I think the Vikings will either win the division, or get a wildcard. I think they will then win one playoff game, and then get smoked the next week.

< Message edited by marty -- 4/8/2023 12:57:18 PM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7533
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/8/2023 4:31:59 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
I wouldn't count the Puke out


Goes wo saying. You haven't...ever.
Post #: 7534
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/8/2023 7:42:06 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16436
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kevin Seifert
@SeifertESPN
·
4m
Replying to
@SeifertESPN
Hendon Hooker's age (25) is unusual, but consider Vikings history: Fran Tarkenton and Tommy Kramer are the only QBs to last more than 5 years as their primary starter. (Cousins will be 3rd.) Hooker could start between ages 26-33 and still be one of their longest-tenured QBs!


Agreed.

So his 2nd contract would basically be for the prime years of his career?

What's the downside to that?

Is the worry that he only gives you 8-10 productive years instead of 10-12?


I think the "downside" by evaluators is that at 25 you have likely reached close to your peak.
I.e. not much upside.

I can't remember any successful QBs being drafted at age 25... but who knows.

The big knock on Hooker from my perspective is the offense he ran in college.
All his throws were predetermined at the snap.
There is no going through progressions.
That's just the type of offense that was run.

So you don't really know if he can translate to the NFL.

Agree with both points.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 7535
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 9:33:40 AM   
marty


Posts: 12690
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Not true Todd.

I counted the Packers out every year from about 1978-1996.

I would like to start counting them out again, hopefully Love sucks badly.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7536
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 11:47:32 AM   
Nate

 

Posts: 2290
Joined: 9/10/2009
From: A Galaxy Far Far Away...
Status: offline 		Just like in antiques, you can be told what something is worth, but it's only worth that if someone's willing to pay it. Maybe there is some collusion with Lamar, who knows, but the facts as of now are that no one wants to pay what he's asking (at least the guaranteed part). If I were in his ear, I'd say he needs an agent and should figure out a compromise as to how uber-rich he wants to be and go where he could win a championship.

On to the draft, I still have no idea what the plan is for our defense. We have almost no CBs, and counting on Booth and Cine to be starters and last all year seems preposterous. We're thin at LB and Safety and have marginal talent on the DLine outside of our 2 DE/OLBs who are the best trade bait we have, and if we keep them, one wants out and the other a payday soon. The OLine is the same as always (ick) and we're down a WR. There is no future QB on the roster, outside of extending KFC (also ick). We have few draft picks. We're still up against the cap and have some players to move or restructure yet, or keep despite my dismay. Maybe we're sucking for Caleb, maybe KAM has a master plan of turning our summer league roster of 6ft point guards into a championship powerhouse, but as of now I'd say the cloud of mystery and confusion is thick and I don't see a clear path out of this debacle. At a minimum we still need to move some big contracts for picks and/or cap room and better hope there are some cheap Duke Shelley's out there in the scrap pile. Hell, Duke was a cheap Duke and we passed on him. The cloud of mystery and confusion is thick.
Post #: 7537
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 12:35:34 PM   
marty


Posts: 12690
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		IF the Vikes have a master plan of sucking for Caleb, I believe they're sucking at THAT.

IF you wanted to suck for Caleb, then you should have kept Donatell.

And also kept Irv Smith and Jalen Reagor, and gotten rid of impact players like PP, Cook, Harrison Smith, Za'Darius Smith and Danielle Hunter.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7538
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 2:04:45 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18198
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		I can't imagine keeping my season tickets if it was clear the plan was to "Suck for Caleb" or anyone else for that matter
Post #: 7539
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 2:13:53 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online 		Good post Nate. I liked that line on Duke.

I think it's going to be a bit before we see the defense put together. If I were a defense UDFA I wouldn't hesitate to choose the Vikings. We're going to need to hit it on the head with our draft choices, unearth diamonds in the rough with UDFA's and pick off the best of the cut casualties.

Give em credit they did do good with the scrap heap last year.
Post #: 7540
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 2:25:07 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

I can't imagine keeping my season tickets if it was clear the plan was to "Suck for Caleb" or anyone else for that matter


I don't think there's a way to execute and esp sell a plan to suck for a certain player.

I think you can sit on your hands if you find yourself 1-7 or 2-10 or something.

Some of the biggest misses at the top should be enough to stop any sensible group from trying to plan sucking.
Post #: 7541
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 2:48:28 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online 		Tanking is like necrophilia. You don't want to actively chase down dead bodies but if a fresh one falls into your lap ..
Post #: 7542
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/9/2023 3:43:54 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12840
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline 		Historically, a winning record and making the playoffs next year is a fairly long shot.

Team history exposes the franchise tendency to be pretty awful in modern football after a playoff game season.

Maybe KOC/ Flores can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

I will not be holding my breath.

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 7543
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/10/2023 11:24:37 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18198
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		KW at #2 makes me smile


Dustin Baker @DustBaker
·
1h
Vikings 10 Best Draft Picks,
per
@Stathead
Approx Value,
Last 25 Years:

1. Randy Moss
2. Kevin Williams
3. Adrian Peterson
4. Daunte Culpepper
5. Matt Birk
6. Stefon Diggs
7. Chad Greenway
8. Everson Griffen
9. Harrison Smith
10. Bryant McKinnie
Post #: 7544
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/11/2023 1:06:05 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1011
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

I'm sorry, this is simply not true. First, he played in a read offense when he was in Virginia Tech. Second, he is incredibly accurate which is one reason he doesn't go to later progressions. Third, outstanding character. If he did not have the serious injury he would easily be a top ten pick. There is quite a lot on Hendon Hookers skills online--no one saying he is a one read QB by the way. Here is a thoughtful analysis below by Mark Martz who might know something about pro offenses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvLyzDHU9TM
Post #: 7545
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/11/2023 1:18:46 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27588
Status: offline 		2024, Drake Maye.

38 TDs, 7 Int, 4321 yards. Don't know about his intangibles. Leadership, pressure situations, etc... does he have 'it'?
Post #: 7546
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/11/2023 1:25:49 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76840
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

I'm sorry, this is simply not true. First, he played in a read offense when he was in Virginia Tech. Second, he is incredibly accurate which is one reason he doesn't go to later progressions. Third, outstanding character. If he did not have the serious injury he would easily be a top ten pick. There is quite a lot on Hendon Hookers skills online--no one saying he is a one read QB by the way. Here is a thoughtful analysis below by Mark Martz who might know something about pro offenses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvLyzDHU9TM


He's a gamble, but I'd be thrilled to draft him.
Post #: 7547
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/11/2023 1:26:14 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76840
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2024, Drake Maye.

38 TDs, 7 Int, 4321 yards. Don't know about his intangibles. Leadership, pressure situations, etc... does he have 'it'?


Sounds like he could be in the mix for the #1 pick next year.
Post #: 7548
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/11/2023 1:30:05 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2210
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

I'm sorry, this is simply not true. First, he played in a read offense when he was in Virginia Tech. Second, he is incredibly accurate which is one reason he doesn't go to later progressions. Third, outstanding character. If he did not have the serious injury he would easily be a top ten pick. There is quite a lot on Hendon Hookers skills online--no one saying he is a one read QB by the way. Here is a thoughtful analysis below by Mark Martz who might know something about pro offenses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvLyzDHU9TM


It's not fair to say that Hendon CAN'T read through progressions...
But you can say he has NOT been asked to do that for the last 2 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s75Zg19RCQE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmaCb7QGnGQ

In most of the plays in this analysis... the WRs on one side of the field don't even run real routes!

So that makes it extremely difficult to project if he can do that at an NFL level.

Yes he did it 3 years ago at Virginia Tech... but how successful was he there?
He transferred out... which is another red flag to me.

I love his TD/INT ratio... but watching his Tennessee film... I think he'd need a lot of work.
Ok 3rd rounder.
Would not draft in the 1st.
Post #: 7549
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/11/2023 2:49:45 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38456
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I was ok with Hooker for 5 minutes but it just seems like settling. An ok-ish discounted old broken one read QB.

I want better.

I'm sorry, this is simply not true. First, he played in a read offense when he was in Virginia Tech. Second, he is incredibly accurate which is one reason he doesn't go to later progressions. Third, outstanding character. If he did not have the serious injury he would easily be a top ten pick. There is quite a lot on Hendon Hookers skills online--no one saying he is a one read QB by the way. Here is a thoughtful analysis below by Mark Martz who might know something about pro offenses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvLyzDHU9TM


It's not fair to say that Hendon CAN'T read through progressions...
But you can say he has NOT been asked to do that for the last 2 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s75Zg19RCQE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmaCb7QGnGQ

In most of the plays in this analysis... the WRs on one side of the field don't even run real routes!

So that makes it extremely difficult to project if he can do that at an NFL level.

Yes he did it 3 years ago at Virginia Tech... but how successful was he there?
He transferred out... which is another red flag to me.

I love his TD/INT ratio... but watching his Tennessee film... I think he'd need a lot of work.
Ok 3rd rounder.
Would not draft in the 1st.


He will not make it out of the first round.

It's that simple.

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.
Post #: 7550
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