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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:46:06 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:49:39 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.


Kittle?

THAT would be impressive...
Post #: 2127
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:50:22 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

One thing to consider is the team that knows Hockenson best is the team that was willing to let him go.

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hockenson has had knee, ankle, foot issues - was pulled from the injury report to play against Miami last week....

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Post #: 2128
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:50:48 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

One thing to consider is the team that knows Hockenson best is the team that was willing to let him go.


???
Money is right, he is young, and one of the most explosive TE in the league.
Detroit isn't done trading.

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Post #: 2129
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:52:12 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Status: offline 		I guess Dave Sinykin has to cover for Barrerio today....

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Post #: 2130
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:52:34 PM   
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

One thing to consider is the team that knows Hockenson best is the team that was willing to let him go.


The super successful Detroit Lions..
Post #: 2131
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:54:22 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
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this season hockenson is averaging 15yds per reception - #1 for te's....


I think I had heard that...


I hope that number doesn't fall off a cliff when he's paired with Cousins. Cousins is currently tied for 30th in the league in yards-per-attempt at 6.6.

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Post #: 2132
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:56:35 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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brandin cooks is a no-show at the texans' walk-through practice right now....

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Post #: 2133
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:57:51 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

One thing to consider is the team that knows Hockenson best is the team that was willing to let him go.


The super successful Detroit Lions..


Eagles are hating they acquired Clay I bet.

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Post #: 2134
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 1:59:37 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Status: offline 		Miami going all in:

Traded for Jeff Wilson and Bradley Chubb.

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Post #: 2135
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 2:26:15 PM   
David Levine


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Status: offline 		Not a huge Claypool fan, but very happy he's in Chicago and not Green Bay:

JosinaAnderson@JosinaAnderson
As of 8am this morning I'm told "it was looking like Green Bay was potentially going to offer the best deal for Chase (Claypool)," per league source. Obviously the #Bears have swooped in and nabbed the #Steelers WR.
Post #: 2136
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 2:28:08 PM   
David Levine


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Status: offline 		Steelers trade WR Claypool to Bears
Chicago Bears get: WR Chase Claypool
Pittsburgh Steelers get: Bears' 2023 second-round pick
Trade date: Nov. 1

Grade for the Bears: D+

All the reasons the Bears were better off dealing Roquan Smith than keeping him make this decision puzzling. It's not the exact same scenario -- Claypool has another cheap year on his rookie deal after this -- but part of his value was what he could offer in the second half of 2022, which doesn't matter to a rebuilding Chicago. Or it shouldn't.

Claypool is an OK receiver. He ranks 76th out of 102 wide receivers with at least 100 routes in yards per route run this season, but he's done that with poor quarterback play. In our Receiver Tracking Metrics Claypool has an Overall Score of 63, which ranks 24th among wide receivers and tight ends. That's a massive upgrade from last season, when he recorded just a 39 Overall Score, 89th out of 109 qualifiers.

So why did Chicago make this trade? My guess is their rationale is twofold:

They are trying to evaluate Justin Fields before making a critical decision at quarterback this offseason, and adding another receiver alongside Darnell Mooney could help that process.

The upcoming free agent class is weak at WR.

Claypool has another cheap year on his contract in 2023.

But none of those are particularly compelling reasons to trade for a non-exceptional wide receiver now.

Perhaps Chicago having two second-round picks after dealing Smith yesterday was a consideration, but that absolutely should not have been a major factor. Just because a team has an extra asset doesn't make that asset any more expendable. Simply making a selection or using that pick to acquire a quarterback are much more efficient uses than dealing it midseason in a non-contending year.

That this was the Bears' own second-rounder, and not the Ravens', makes this deal even worse. ESPN's Football Power Index forecasts the Bears to have, on average, the eighth pick in the draft and a 33% chance at a top-5 pick in the first round. The Ravens' second-rounder projects to be lower.

Grade for the Steelers: A-

More than anything, this is just strong compensation. An early second-round pick for Claypool in a year when the Steelers aren't contending is too good a price to pass up.

With another cheap year left on his contract, the Steelers did not have to deal him. It does reduce their receiver depth, though they still have a legitimate No. 1 in Diontae Johnson and big-time upside in rookie George Pickens -- not bad at all.

Pittsburgh does seem to have a knack for finding good receivers in the draft, though I wonder if that's just luck and not something that should be banked on.

But again, the downside here is easily worth the payoff: An early second-round pick for a team in the midst of its own retooling is a much more valuable commodity than a year-and-a-half of Claypool.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/34810737/nfl-trade-grades-report-cards-rankings-biggest-2022-deadline-deals-how-team-did
Post #: 2137
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 2:28:53 PM   
David Levine


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Status: offline 		Lions trade TE Hockenson to Vikings
Minnesota Vikings get: TE T.J. Hockenson, 2023 fourth-round pick, 2024 conditional fourth-round pick
Detroit Lions get: 2023 second-round pick, 2024 third-round pick
Trade date: Nov. 1

Grade for the Vikings: B+

Evidently, the Vikings believe that they are contenders. At 6-1, there's still some question about the legitimacy about how strong they are, but it also might not matter. Given their record and the relative weakness of the NFC, the Vikings had the seventh-best chance (2.4%) to win the Super Bowl before this trade, according to ESPN's Football Power Index (FPI), even with the model considering them only the 14th-best team.

Hockenson is a solid tight end who has flashed something more -- though he hasn't reached the heights one might have imagined after catching 67 passes for 723 yards in 2020. He hauled in 583 receiving yards in 12 games last season and has 395 in 2022.

Our Receiver Tracking Metrics actually liked Hockenson's 2021 a decent bit: His 65 Overall Score was tied for fifth among tight ends and buoyed by a 73 Catch Score -- tied for best among tight ends. In 2022 that Overall Score has dropped to 58, though he remains fifth among tight ends. He certainly could still ascend, as tight ends tend to develop slowly.

In acquiring Hockenson, the Vikings land a solid third receiving option behind Justin Jefferson and Adam Thielen, which is particularly useful with Irv Smith Jr. suffering a high ankle sprain in Sunday's win over the Cardinals -- an injury expected to sideline him 8-10 weeks, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter. The Vikings rank 15th in EPA/dropback, so focusing on the passing game is ideal from a team-building standpoint.

Hockenson will be cheap this year for Minnesota then will cost a guaranteed $9.4 million against the cap next season on the fifth-year option.

Grade for the Lions: B

The Lions know they aren't contenders, and while Hockenson is a young player who could help them in the future, they also were about to start paying him. It wasn't a deal they had to make, but gaining draft capital for a rebuilding team is never a bad thing, especially since the Lions will likely be the in QB market but also because cost-controlled young players are often the key to building a championship roster.

Some will scoff at trading a player within the division, but that criticism is be unfounded. Detroit is dealing Hockenson at a time when how good the Vikings are is irrelevant to the Lions' future championship chance. In exchange, they will draft players who will play against the Vikings for years.

In the long term, the Lions still have a solid pass-catching foundation with Amon-Ra St. Brown and Jameson Williams, who was selected after a draft-day trade with the Vikings in April.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/34810737/nfl-trade-grades-report-cards-rankings-biggest-2022-deadline-deals-how-team-did
Post #: 2138
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:00:24 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Kyle Dvorchak
@kyletweetshere
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45m
One lucky bettor under the user name NotRidley18 will cash out $5,000 after placing a +10000 bet on Calvin Ridley's next team to be the Jaguars seemingly less than 2 hours ago.

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Post #: 2139
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:02:40 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.


Kittle?

THAT would be impressive...


But it would make no sense at all.

Why would the 49ers trade Kittle when they clearly went all in getting Christian McCaffrey?

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Post #: 2140
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:06:25 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.


Kittle?

THAT would be impressive...


But it would make no sense at all.

Why would the 49ers trade Kittle when they clearly went all in getting Christian McCaffrey?


It was clearly a mistake.
Post #: 2141
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:08:27 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.


Kittle?

THAT would be impressive...


But it would make no sense at all.

Why would the 49ers trade Kittle when they clearly went all in getting Christian McCaffrey?


It was clearly a mistake.


i understood the reference to be 'kittle-like'....

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Post #: 2142
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:11:32 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.


Kittle?

THAT would be impressive...


But it would make no sense at all.

Why would the 49ers trade Kittle when they clearly went all in getting Christian McCaffrey?


It was clearly a mistake.


i understood the reference to be 'kittle-like'....


It wasn't that clever. It was literally a mistake.

Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
*Hockenson not Kittle obviously
Post #: 2143
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:13:27 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Tej Seth@tejfbanalytics
hock showed up average in typical metrics (YPRR, PFF grade) because goff didn't have a good connection with him but when using ESPN's tracking data metrics he has shown up very highly these past two years

kwesi adofo-mensah is probably using these when making these decisions

Post #: 2144
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:15:40 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NickOlsonNFL
#Vikings get Kittle for a minimum salary for the rest of 2022. I imagine they make this trade with the intention of extending him this offseason, but letting him play out 2023 for $9.4M then either tagging him or letting him walk for a high comp pick isn't a bad backup plan.


Kittle?

THAT would be impressive...


But it would make no sense at all.

Why would the 49ers trade Kittle when they clearly went all in getting Christian McCaffrey?



Yeah, John Lynch doesn't know what he is doing
Post #: 2145
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:17:49 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		The Best NFL Receivers, According to ESPN Analytics
These ratings, updated weekly, use player-tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats to evaluate every route a pass catcher runs and scores his performance in three phases of the game, from 0 to 99

They have Jefferson as the #7 WR so far this year. Thielen at 28 and KJ at 38.

Hock is the #5 TE.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nfl-receiver-rankings/
Post #: 2146
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:18:24 PM   
Rob Viking

 

Posts: 2069
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline 		I like the trade. Hockenson's value as a blocker is the biggest need. The Lions have a strong run game and many times it's behind Hock's blocks.

Plus he's an Iowa kid, perhaps he's always dreamt of donning purple.
Post #: 2147
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:20:39 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Tej Seth@tejfbanalytics
hock showed up average in typical metrics (YPRR, PFF grade) because goff didn't have a good connection with him but when using ESPN's tracking data metrics he has shown up very highly these past two years

kwesi adofo-mensah is probably using these when making these decisions





they say he's a very good blocker, too....

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Post #: 2148
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:36:26 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This is the kind of move by Kwesi that impresses me.

Targeting a young, very good player on a team that is unlikely going to be able to keep him.

Lions are the worst team in the NFL. What are they going to do with a 9M TE that they probably were unable to extend to a more friendly deal?

And by trading for him now, we get to kick the tires before deciding on what kind of extension we want to offer.

Worst case, we have him for 1.5 years.

I find it very sinister.

Building an offseason plan with Mundt and Irv ...

ending up with Hockensen a few hours short of the deadline.

There are obviously animal sacrifices going on here.
Post #: 2149
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2022 3:48:16 PM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

This is the kind of move by Kwesi that impresses me.

Targeting a young, very good player on a team that is unlikely going to be able to keep him.

Lions are the worst team in the NFL. What are they going to do with a 9M TE that they probably were unable to extend to a more friendly deal?

And by trading for him now, we get to kick the tires before deciding on what kind of extension we want to offer.

Worst case, we have him for 1.5 years.

I find it very sinister.

Building an offseason plan with Mundt and Irv ...

ending up with Hockensen a few hours short of the deadline.

There are obviously animal sacrifices going on here.


The reset year is 2024 for Vikings; they must think the window is this year and next.

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Post #: 2150
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