quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Amazingly brisk game. Thanks to pitch clock and good pitching.

Too fast for me

Clock is ok, maybe a touch longer.

Hurry up and be done in 2 1/2 hours is not going to draw more people to games.

Hate it!

Now that you have just two hours of entertainment at a game, they have raised the prices of food to make up for the loss of revenue because of shorter games.

More money out of your pocket for less entertainment. And somehow they think this is going to equate to better fan support? Good luck with that.

It's bad enough that they have thrown out 120+ years of history with ridiculous rule changes. As a fan the original game of baseball, I'm offended and turned off by the league leadership.

Starting with a guy at second base in extra innings? It's just silly.

Not being able to align your defense how you want to? Beyond silly.

Last season the average attendance in baseball was around 26,500 per-game. 10 years earlier it was 30,800.

Last weekend in Kansas City, the second game of the series was on a Saturday. It was the first Saturday game of the season in Kansas City. 16,633 in attendance. Sunday's game, played in 72-degree weather.....14,589 in attendance. Baseball purists are not going to watch this garbage.

Problems I see:
1) Tanking teams like "KC Royals" is the problem---you won't see that in a St. Louis game. The baseball purists in St. Louis don't mind 36,000 but attendance is always worse before school is out (also). Twins attendance sank last year after they couldn't win a game in September.
2) Cold weather teams should start on the road for the majority of their first 2 weeks.
3) Prices on beer and food were high before the changes.
4) Covid affected attendance also.
5) Everyone hates the runner at 2nd but it all but eliminates the 15-22 inning games.

another problem is the uneven field that is in play.

New York Yankees, Mets, Dodgers can spend spend spend. Pittsburgh, Cincinnati etc etc can't hope to keep up and still make a profit. When you start every year with the assumption that all or most of the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers are automatically in the playoffs...you have a problem.

You will inheriantly start losing fans int he smaller market as they start to feel like there is NO hope for their team to reach the promised land.

BING!

I look on this and have to disagree:
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

I see more big payrolls and TB, Cleveland, Milwaukee seem to get it done in the bottom 10 of payrolls.

I see Oakland as barely trying but they are supposed to get a new stadium.....there are just some horrible FO out there also.

Yes, small market teams can "catch lightning in a bottle", but how many of them are a factor year in and year out?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Amazingly brisk game. Thanks to pitch clock and good pitching.

Too fast for me

Clock is ok, maybe a touch longer.

Hurry up and be done in 2 1/2 hours is not going to draw more people to games.

Hate it!

Now that you have just two hours of entertainment at a game, they have raised the prices of food to make up for the loss of revenue because of shorter games.

More money out of your pocket for less entertainment. And somehow they think this is going to equate to better fan support? Good luck with that.

It's bad enough that they have thrown out 120+ years of history with ridiculous rule changes. As a fan the original game of baseball, I'm offended and turned off by the league leadership.

Starting with a guy at second base in extra innings? It's just silly.

Not being able to align your defense how you want to? Beyond silly.

Last season the average attendance in baseball was around 26,500 per-game. 10 years earlier it was 30,800.

Last weekend in Kansas City, the second game of the series was on a Saturday. It was the first Saturday game of the season in Kansas City. 16,633 in attendance. Sunday's game, played in 72-degree weather.....14,589 in attendance. Baseball purists are not going to watch this garbage.

Problems I see:
1) Tanking teams like "KC Royals" is the problem---you won't see that in a St. Louis game. The baseball purists in St. Louis don't mind 36,000 but attendance is always worse before school is out (also). Twins attendance sank last year after they couldn't win a game in September.
2) Cold weather teams should start on the road for the majority of their first 2 weeks.
3) Prices on beer and food were high before the changes.
4) Covid affected attendance also.
5) Everyone hates the runner at 2nd but it all but eliminates the 15-22 inning games.

another problem is the uneven field that is in play.

New York Yankees, Mets, Dodgers can spend spend spend. Pittsburgh, Cincinnati etc etc can't hope to keep up and still make a profit. When you start every year with the assumption that all or most of the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers are automatically in the playoffs...you have a problem.

You will inheriantly start losing fans int he smaller market as they start to feel like there is NO hope for their team to reach the promised land.

BING!

I look on this and have to disagree:
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

I see more big payrolls and TB, Cleveland, Milwaukee seem to get it done in the bottom 10 of payrolls.

I see Oakland as barely trying but they are supposed to get a new stadium.....there are just some horrible FO out there also.

Yes, small market teams can "catch lightning in a bottle", but how many of them are a factor year in and year out?

Tampa, Cleveland, and Milwaukee "seem" to catch it/compete every year. There are also more teams spending money than every before. There isn't just 3 big market teams---it is about 10-12 and 10 middle class.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Amazingly brisk game. Thanks to pitch clock and good pitching.

Too fast for me

Clock is ok, maybe a touch longer.

Hurry up and be done in 2 1/2 hours is not going to draw more people to games.

Hate it!

Now that you have just two hours of entertainment at a game, they have raised the prices of food to make up for the loss of revenue because of shorter games.

More money out of your pocket for less entertainment. And somehow they think this is going to equate to better fan support? Good luck with that.

It's bad enough that they have thrown out 120+ years of history with ridiculous rule changes. As a fan the original game of baseball, I'm offended and turned off by the league leadership.

Starting with a guy at second base in extra innings? It's just silly.

Not being able to align your defense how you want to? Beyond silly.

Last season the average attendance in baseball was around 26,500 per-game. 10 years earlier it was 30,800.

Last weekend in Kansas City, the second game of the series was on a Saturday. It was the first Saturday game of the season in Kansas City. 16,633 in attendance. Sunday's game, played in 72-degree weather.....14,589 in attendance. Baseball purists are not going to watch this garbage.

Problems I see:
1) Tanking teams like "KC Royals" is the problem---you won't see that in a St. Louis game. The baseball purists in St. Louis don't mind 36,000 but attendance is always worse before school is out (also). Twins attendance sank last year after they couldn't win a game in September.
2) Cold weather teams should start on the road for the majority of their first 2 weeks.
3) Prices on beer and food were high before the changes.
4) Covid affected attendance also.
5) Everyone hates the runner at 2nd but it all but eliminates the 15-22 inning games.

another problem is the uneven field that is in play.

New York Yankees, Mets, Dodgers can spend spend spend. Pittsburgh, Cincinnati etc etc can't hope to keep up and still make a profit. When you start every year with the assumption that all or most of the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers are automatically in the playoffs...you have a problem.

You will inheriantly start losing fans int he smaller market as they start to feel like there is NO hope for their team to reach the promised land.

BING!

I look on this and have to disagree:
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

I see more big payrolls and TB, Cleveland, Milwaukee seem to get it done in the bottom 10 of payrolls.

I see Oakland as barely trying but they are supposed to get a new stadium.....there are just some horrible FO out there also.

Yes, small market teams can "catch lightning in a bottle", but how many of them are a factor year in and year out?

Tampa, Cleveland, and Milwaukee "seem" to catch it/compete every year. There are also more teams spending money than every before. There isn't just 3 big market teams---it is about 10-12 and 10 middle class.

Tampa is the outlier. Cleveland is only good because they play in a shit division. Milwaukee can only keep competing as long as they can keep their studs...which they can't forever.. Eventually Burns will be a Dodger, Met, Yankee or new big spender Ranger.

And every year it is a virtual guarantee that one or all of the mets yankees and dodgers will make the playoffs. You can't have the in a professional sports league and hooe to succeed for long. The truly small markets have nearly Zero hope of competing so they hardly try.

Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Kansas City. to name a few only have big runs on a rare occasion and it quickly unravels after that.

This league has needed a salary cap, badly for decades.

and now you have an owner in New York that doesn't give a shit about the luxury tax and just keeps signing all the biggest names he can.

There isn't a level playing field. It's that simple. And that in the long run is REALLY BAD for your sport.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

That part I don't disagree with....but it isn't only 3 teams. SF, LAA, LAD, NYM, NYY, SD, Boston, CHC, Philly will pay whatever. And you have the 10 just below....it is the 7 out of 10 in the bottom 10 that can't compete. TB, Cleveland, and Milwaukee have smart GMs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

That part I don't disagree with....but it isn't only 3 teams. SF, LAA, LAD, NYM, NYY, SD, Boston, CHC, Philly will pay whatever. And you have the 10 just below....it is the 7 out of 10 in the bottom 10 that can't compete. TB, Cleveland, and Milwaukee have smart GMs.

And still have razor sharp margins for error.

They can't make the same expensive gambles that the loaded teams can. They have to hit on picks and development, they have to make shrewd trades. All 3 of those teams are 1-2 bad moves from missing the playoffs for years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

Like I said, the pitch clock is the least of my beefs with the new rules. Starting with a runner at second base in extra innings is completely ridiculous. The shift rule is completely ridiculous. It's baseball. You should be able to put all seven fielders on first base if you wish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

Like I said, the pitch clock is the least of my beefs with the new rules. Starting with a runner at second base in extra innings is completely ridiculous. The shift rule is completely ridiculous. It's baseball. You should be able to put all seven fielders on first base if you wish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

Like I said, the pitch clock is the least of my beefs with the new rules. Starting with a runner at second base in extra innings is completely ridiculous. The shift rule is completely ridiculous. It's baseball. You should be able to put all seven fielders on first base if you wish.

Agreed. All the no shift rules do is perpetuate the "lift and separate" approach to hitting development at every level of baseball. The game is becoming more and more an all or nothing approach to offense. Batters are living with lower averages and a lot more strikeouts in the pursuit of power. They were incapable of adjusting to shifts because their hitting approach leaves them incapable of going the other way with the hit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

Like I said, the pitch clock is the least of my beefs with the new rules. Starting with a runner at second base in extra innings is completely ridiculous. The shift rule is completely ridiculous. It's baseball. You should be able to put all seven fielders on first base if you wish.

Agreed. All the no shift rules do is perpetuate the "lift and separate" approach to hitting development at every level of baseball. The game is becoming more and more an all or nothing approach to offense. Batters are living with lower averages and a lot more strikeouts in the pursuit of power. They were incapable of adjusting to shifts because their hitting approach leaves them incapable of going the other way with the hit.

Actually the Bigger Bases and eliminating the exaggerated infield shift are supposed to fix it (less of a power game).....way more stolen bases this year already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

Like I said, the pitch clock is the least of my beefs with the new rules. Starting with a runner at second base in extra innings is completely ridiculous. The shift rule is completely ridiculous. It's baseball. You should be able to put all seven fielders on first base if you wish.

Agreed. All the no shift rules do is perpetuate the "lift and separate" approach to hitting development at every level of baseball. The game is becoming more and more an all or nothing approach to offense. Batters are living with lower averages and a lot more strikeouts in the pursuit of power. They were incapable of adjusting to shifts because their hitting approach leaves them incapable of going the other way with the hit.

Actually the Bigger Bases and eliminating the exaggerated infield shift are supposed to fix it (less of a power game).....way more stolen bases this year already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Well, we win. Woulda been a DP if they could shift. Really stupid way to win an otherwise good game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The games lasted 3:10 in 2021....and they only cut 7 minutes off with the 2022 changes they made. So it is 3:10 from 2021 to 2:38 now. The changes made going into 2022 didn't do much so they overhauled it.

Baseball will still have the between half/full inning commercials, pitching changes, and in game commercials. Their goal is to keep the majority of games under 3 hours so maybe they will change some of the clocks next year but it is here to stay.

Like I said, the pitch clock is the least of my beefs with the new rules. Starting with a runner at second base in extra innings is completely ridiculous. The shift rule is completely ridiculous. It's baseball. You should be able to put all seven fielders on first base if you wish.

Agreed. All the no shift rules do is perpetuate the "lift and separate" approach to hitting development at every level of baseball. The game is becoming more and more an all or nothing approach to offense. Batters are living with lower averages and a lot more strikeouts in the pursuit of power. They were incapable of adjusting to shifts because their hitting approach leaves them incapable of going the other way with the hit.

Actually the Bigger Bases and eliminating the exaggerated infield shift are supposed to fix it (less of a power game).....way more stolen bases this year already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

These extra inning rules are a travesty. Woulda been 1-2-3 inning. But played infield in after "productive out." The hit would have been routine grounder with infield playing normal depth. It's enough for me to think about boycotting baseball.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Well, we win. Woulda been a DP if they could shift. Really stupid way to win an otherwise good game.

Not being able to shift had nothing to do with it. The SS could have played right off 2B and would have easily turned it. They chose to play it straight up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Small sampling so far, but home runs are up from last season (1.19-to-1.07 per-game). Strikeouts are at a crazy high level (8.53). Previous to 2016, there had never been a season with more than eight strikeouts-per-game. Previous to 2010, there had never been a season more than 7.0.

Stolen bases are at 0.68 per-game. Last season it was 0.51. So, if you consider 0.17 stolen bases-per-game a big deal, than well, whatever. I see it as a very minimal change in the brand of the game.

Historically speaking, strikeouts started to soar in 2012 and have been rising consistently ever since. In 2011 they were at 7.10 per-game and rose to 7.50 in 2012. Now we are over 8.5 and still rising. When did the movie Money Ball come out? In 2011. Is there a correlation? I think there is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Well, we win. Woulda been a DP if they could shift. Really stupid way to win an otherwise good game.

Not being able to shift had nothing to do with it. The SS could have played right off 2B and would have easily turned it. They chose to play it straight up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Well, we win. Woulda been a DP if they could shift. Really stupid way to win an otherwise good game.

Not being able to shift had nothing to do with it. The SS could have played right off 2B and would have easily turned it. They chose to play it straight up.

Yep. Houston chose to draw in the infield to cut down the run at the plate. They could have just as easily positioned to play for the double play. It was not due to shift restrictions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

These extra inning rules are a travesty. Woulda been 1-2-3 inning. But played infield in after "productive out." The hit would have been routine grounder with infield playing normal depth. It's enough for me to think about boycotting baseball.

It's not baseball. They have thrown away the great history of the game in order to fill a time slot and make more money. Call it whatever you want, but the game has changed radically in the past decade and it is no longer baseball. Not the one I am familiar with, anyways.

Last Tuesday the A's drew 3,407 fans. They were at 6% capacity. On the same day, 11 of 13 Triple-A games that day drew more fans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Small sampling so far, but home runs are up from last season (1.19-to-1.07 per-game). Strikeouts are at a crazy high level (8.53). Previous to 2016, there had never been a season with more than eight strikeouts-per-game. Previous to 2010, there had never been a season more than 7.0.

Stolen bases are at 0.68 per-game. Last season it was 0.51. So, if you consider 0.17 stolen bases-per-game a big deal, than well, whatever. I see it as a very minimal change in the brand of the game.

Historically speaking, strikeouts started to soar in 2012 and have been rising consistently ever since. In 2011 they were at 7.10 per-game and rose to 7.50 in 2012. Now we are over 8.5 and still rising. When did the movie Money Ball come out? In 2011. Is there a correlation? I think there is.

I think the bigger issue is how the obsession with analytics is killing the game.

Analytics has fueled the transformation from the era when starting pitchers were men to the era where pitchers are developed from an early age to exert maximum effort on each pitch to add velocity. As a result, pitchers can't go as far as they used to, bullpens are overworked and Tommy John surgery has become an almost inevitable part of many pitchers' career paths.

Analytics has driven the change from hitters gearing mechanics that enabled them to adjust to what pitchers are doing to hitters developing mechanics to maximize launch angle and exit velocity. They sell out for power. They have become guess hitters who swing from their heels any time they expect a fastball. They will live with the K's. The result is lower batting averages, way more strikeouts. I apologize for channeling Dick Bremer, but the concept of a "productive out" is ancient history.