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RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 8:53:37 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
last season, over the first three quarters, the bills and eagles led the league with a +150 point differential... he vikings were 3rd worst at -87....

How did vikes do in the fourth quarter?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_single_season.htm

Interesting that 3 of the top 4 performers/teams (vikes, raiders, lions) lost in their first playoff game that year.

Again … playoffs are a different season. Digging yourself out of holes for a living has good entertainment value but won’t get you very far when it really counts.

Post #: 401

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 9:15:03 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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nfl.com is reporting that Cook is being let go Friday.

Post #: 402

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 9:36:58 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28598
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Kwesi has done ok this year with finally getting rid of bloated contracts, although right now Cousins' $28.5 million dead cap and Harrison Smith's $19 million cap hit stand out in 2024. Also not a fan of how over half of Davenport's salary is stashed in void year. All in all, he got rid of most of the likely suspects.

Post #: 403

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 9:49:17 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
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Shocked anybody would even consider a trade for Cook.

It’s a disposable position. I give the position zero value. Find me a guy willing to run through a brick wall because his career depends on it. Run him into ground and move on.

Never ever pay a runningback big money. Never.

It’s fools gold.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 6/8/2023 10:15:03 AM >

Post #: 404

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 9:53:28 AM

Trekgeekscott

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

nfl.com is reporting that Cook is being let go Friday.

Why wait until Friday?

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“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 405

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 10:17:54 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

nfl.com is reporting that Cook is being let go Friday.

Why wait until Friday?

Its like the cheese with licorice meat sticks hanging by the cash register … one last chance to suck in impulse shoppers.

Post #: 406

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 11:01:20 AM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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I think Cook will be missed more than some think. He was a home run threat that could catch the ball.

I hope the young guys are ready.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 407

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 11:11:34 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Cook will be missed more than some think. He was a home run threat that could catch the ball.

I hope the young guys are ready.

Some said the same about AP and we didn't miss a beat with Cook....rather be on the right side of it than over-paying a RB.

It is more of a passing offense; changing trend since 2007.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 408

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 11:13:34 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28598
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Cook's $14M cap hit will not be missed.

Post #: 409

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 11:13:58 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Cook will be missed more than some think. He was a home run threat that could catch the ball.

I hope the young guys are ready.

Please don't chew while you're posting. It's not polite.

Post #: 410

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 12:24:21 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19590
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Cook will be missed more than some think. He was a home run threat that could catch the ball.

I hope the young guys are ready.

What are you going to miss? His diminishing ypc? His high pay? Face it he's on the wrong side of his career.

Running back is a brutal position that you should never overpay for. Time to find some young guys.

Post #: 411

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 1:16:48 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9554
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Cook will be missed more than some think. He was a home run threat that could catch the ball.

I hope the young guys are ready.

I've watched the last quarter+ of the bill's game several times recently, and cook looked great in that comeback...but it's time to let him go....

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Post #: 412

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 1:51:05 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
last season, over the first three quarters, the bills and eagles led the league with a +150 point differential... he vikings were 3rd worst at -87....

How did vikes do in the fourth quarter?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_single_season.htm

Interesting that 3 of the top 4 performers/teams (vikes, raiders, lions) lost in their first playoff game that year.

Again … playoffs are a different season. Digging yourself out of holes for a living has good entertainment value but won’t get you very far when it really counts.

Credit where credit is due: our defense ranked #10 in points allowed in the fourth quarter.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 413

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 2:24:05 PM

Bill Jandro

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Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 414

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 2:51:13 PM

beo

Posts: 2365
Joined: 3/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Cook will be missed more than some think. He was a home run threat that could catch the ball.

I hope the young guys are ready.

What are you going to miss? His diminishing ypc? His high pay? Face it he's on the wrong side of his career.

Running back is a brutal position that you should never overpay for. Time to find some young guys.

I absolutely think it's the right move to let him go.
I hate investing in RB second contracts.

But his big runs made a huge impact in Buffalo/Miami/Indy games last year... pretty sure we don't win those with Mattison.

We'll see...

Post #: 415

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 2:52:48 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28598
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

- DE is a premium position, but he doesn't play DE.
- He is playing out of position (through no fault of his own).
- People may look at his salary by year, but it won't show an additional $11+ million buried in void years in 2024 & 2025 that he has collected.
- He was paid while he was injured.

As long as he is playing OLB in the 3-4, he is not worth premium dollars. I'd rather see him traded for a proven player or picks.

And the year before we signed Allen we were 8th in sacks.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 6/8/2023 3:01:50 PM >

Post #: 416

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 3:36:06 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17927
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

- DE is a premium position, but he doesn't play DE.
- He is playing out of position (through no fault of his own).
- People may look at his salary by year, but it won't show an additional $11+ million buried in void years in 2024 & 2025 that he has collected.
- He was paid while he was injured.

As long as he is playing OLB in the 3-4, he is not worth premium dollars. I'd rather see him traded for a proven player or picks.

And the year before we signed Allen we were 8th in sacks.

=I think in todays NFL DE/Edge are valued equally.
-The 11ml buried was the team kicking it down the road no fault of Hunter's.
-All players get paid if they get injured.
-He was a top ten player at his position last season at OLB.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 417

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 3:50:40 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro
Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

Our new DC is big on pressure by moving guys around, blitzing, and zone blitzing. Zimmer 4-3 was built for Hunter.....a trade wouldn't surprise me.

_____________________________

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Post #: 418

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 4:01:56 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro
Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

Our new DC is big on pressure by moving guys around, blitzing, and zone blitzing. Zimmer 4-3 was built for Hunter.....a trade wouldn't surprise me.

I'm just going on the record saying it's a bad idea.

Losing both Z and Hunter will cripple our pass rush. I don't care what Flores does you still need guys that can get home.

If Hunter is traded we will have lost our 3 best players on our front 7 and add in the loss of EK too. On a 31st ranked defense. Flores is going to need to be able to walk on water to make this talentless bunch of rag tags look even serviceable.

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 6/8/2023 4:03:08 PM >

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 419

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 4:03:46 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro
Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

Our new DC is big on pressure by moving guys around, blitzing, and zone blitzing. Zimmer 4-3 was built for Hunter.....a trade wouldn't surprise me.

I'm just going on the record saying it's a bad idea.

Losing both Z and Hunter will cripple our pass rush. I don't care what Flores does you still need guys that can get home.

If Hunter is traded we will have lost our 3 best players on our front 7 and add in the loss of EK too. Flores is going to need to be able to walk on water to make this talentless bunch of rag tags look even serviceable.

When they are the top 3 of a 30th ranked defense and Dalvin (Thomlinson) was out over half the year, Hunter wasn't the same in a 3-4 defense, and the ZED wasn't the same the second half....

Flores runs a 3-4 mostly and as mentioned by others it isn't Hunter's strong suit.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 6/8/2023 4:24:11 PM >

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Post #: 420

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 4:04:17 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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Same age as Dalvin; Zeke Elliot and Kareem Hunt.

Both available.

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Post #: 421

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 4:55:58 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28598
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Vikes need to pay Hunter. Edge is a premium position and our defense simply can't be w/o at least one good one. People forget the lean years before we traded for Jared Allen. We couldn't even get a wiff of a qb prior to that for years.

- DE is a premium position, but he doesn't play DE.
- He is playing out of position (through no fault of his own).
- People may look at his salary by year, but it won't show an additional $11+ million buried in void years in 2024 & 2025 that he has collected.
- He was paid while he was injured.

As long as he is playing OLB in the 3-4, he is not worth premium dollars. I'd rather see him traded for a proven player or picks.

And the year before we signed Allen we were 8th in sacks.

=I think in todays NFL DE/Edge are valued equally. Guess my point is Hunter at DE > Hunter at Edge and in coverage.
-The 11ml buried was the team kicking it down the road no fault of Hunter's. Never said it was. Just saying his salary may look lower than it is.
-All players get paid if they get injured.
-He was a top ten player at his position last season at OLB. Based on what? Edge players cover, he sucks at it (again, not his fault).

Pay the 2018 pre-prime Hunter big bucks? Absolutely. While he signed the extension, a case can be made the Vikings took advantage of that although he suffered two major injuries, and with the neck they may have been/are cautious.

Pay the 2023 in/post-prime Hunter the same big bucks? Nope. I'd rather have a proven player or pick(s) than sign a soon to be 29 year old former pure DE playing out of position with a fused neck.

We need assets to rebuild, not to give a good % to a player who will be playing out the string while we rebuild.

Post #: 422

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 5:00:25 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28598
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Same age as Dalvin; Zeke Elliot and Kareem Hunt.

Both available.

Mattison will be our starting RB.

Post #: 423

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 5:04:22 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Same age as Dalvin; Zeke Elliot and Kareem Hunt.

Both available.

Mattison will be our starting RB.

True; Neither are starters any more---pay as a backup a little over minimum. Mattison and Ty have injury history.

Zeke had 12 Red Zone TDs last year and was very good in short yardage---just another way to show other teams choose to release a soon to be 28 year old.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 6/8/2023 5:06:07 PM >

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Post #: 424

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/8/2023 5:18:00 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Part of any argument for keeping good players is whether we can really compete (ignoring 44% of the league makes the playoffs). I surmise we are rebuilding, regardless of the idiotic 'competitive rebuild' mantra, mostly on defense.

There are hopes in the secondary. But I see trash and journeymen in the front seven. It will take a couple of years for an influx of productive bodies - assuming they pan out which a large sample of NFL history suggests will not happen. By then Hunter will be a drag on the cap... unless he signs another questionable, team friendly contract.

Post #: 425