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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:04:26 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer
Congrats Kirk haters. You got your wish

This is Phil's first post after the news of Cousins' injury. Many replied that literally nobody wanted that outcome, and most posts expressing he be traded were based on when we were 0-3 and 1-4, not 4-4.
Some do not even consider context, especially so when they are grieving.
So, it's easy to see why he's irrationally snippy when someone says Cousins is done here.

Nah most know you are Sans Kirk....we all know who is irrational.

I don't want Cousins and I separately believe Cousins will never play for Minnesota again.

Enjoy your grieving.

Everyone knows Attorney Tank and we don't care.

You care, you know you care. This offseason I'll be laughing at your incessant posts that we need to sign Cousins while speculating about our new 1st round QB.

You may need to go check back in and reaffirm with your mirror if you think that. You are so far on the tank side you can't see it. Look back at Sweens post. I like most don't want to get worse at qb and also look at the post of who our qbs have been the last 25.

I know you struggle with differing opinions even when rational.

We could have tanked or we can win the Super Bowl, but I don't want Cousins and believe he is done here. Happy now?

Now, I realize you won't comprehend this but tanking is heavily predicated on trading players for future assets. But now that the trading deadline is over, there is no reason to advocate tanking because it basically doesn't exist. Is that simple enough for you?

Oh, again with the grammar: and also look at the post of who our qbs have been the last 25. Yikes.

3 sentences from the supposed rational person....sigh.

You can't even count. I won't dare try to even guess the meaning of your post.

Did you understand the connection between tanking and the trade deadline? It's my personal belief/definition, and I know you struggle with that.

Majority of fans want a decent QB...it doesn't have to be Kirk. Like I said look back in history....a rational person can actually agree we can be worse off than Kirk. The last 25 years prove that.

The worst excuse I have heard is don't let Kwesi draft a qb. Who has drafted a HOF QB for the Vikings? 1 GM in 1961.

Good to hear, it's bookmarked.

As for the past 25 years and 1961, looks like you're arguing with yourself. Enjoy!

Post #: 4326

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:04:52 AM

Todd M

Posts: 41409
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Atlanta starting Taylor Heinicke.

Post #: 4327

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:10:55 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

Moving on from that...

Hope both Hall and Dobbs get a good share of playing time. If both are at least ok and we resign Dobbs contingent on making the roster, they could battle it out for the backup spot to our newly drafted QB. Mannion probably becomes more important in the regimes eyes because of his supposed valuable knowledge but will we carry three QBs (although I think we can carry a third, deactivate one on game day, and not have him count towards the roster maximum... or something like that).

Post #: 4328

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:21:39 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

Looking forward to seeing how much Hall's (or Dobbs's) mobility affects things. Compared to Kirk, trading off passing accuracy / command of the playbook for mobility. Useful information for Kwesi when evaluating draft prospects.

Post #: 4329

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:32:05 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6018
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Well ... I'm going to have to defend Phil, like I always do.

He may be right, Cousins' injury may actually improve the chances of KAM KOC resigning him in the offseason.

(although his 'logic' is way off ... surprisingly)

One – getting injured now may leave the regime fondly remembering Kirk's transcendent early season 4-4 performance (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Two – the injury now certainly removes the chances for another Kirk-instigated wildcard game flub, which would be too fresh to dis-remember (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Three – regardless of David Fs preposterous argument, we are staring at a nine game period of stinky under-developed back-up QB play ... which will certainly be fresh in the mind (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Yup. come Jan-March, I see Kwesi and Kevin pining like a couple of dead parrots over Kirk's statistical highlights, as usual disregarding their low impact and poor timing when determining the outcome of games.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 11/1/2023 11:34:17 AM >

Post #: 4330

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:43:41 AM

Todd M

Posts: 41409
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Part of me thinks they could bring Cousins back. If the wheels fall off this season the more likely it’d be.

If we are still competitive with our backups and make a playoff push hopefully that would be enough to make a clean break.

It’s an awkward situation that will have to be felt out. The part of me that can still feel wouldn’t mine a comeback story to end all stories.

Post #: 4331

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 11:56:43 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6018
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Part of me thinks they could bring Cousins back. If the wheels fall off this season the more likely it’d be.

If we are still competitive with our backups and make a playoff push hopefully that would be enough to make a clean break.

It’s an awkward situation that will have to be felt out. The part of me that can still feel wouldn’t mine a comeback story to end all stories.

Good post.

Yes I want either / both dobbs hall to show enough to be part of the future, yes.

I agree, even if the the money makes it a really bad idea, I could see KAM pacifying KOC with another Kirk deal.

Post #: 4332

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 12:36:06 PM

David F.

Posts: 10887
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Well ... I'm going to have to defend Phil, like I always do.

He may be right, Cousins' injury may actually improve the chances of KAM KOC resigning him in the offseason.

(although his 'logic' is way off ... surprisingly)

One – getting injured now may leave the regime fondly remembering Kirk's transcendent early season 4-4 performance (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Two – the injury now certainly removes the chances for another Kirk-instigated wildcard game flub, which would be too fresh to dis-remember (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Three – regardless of David Fs preposterous argument, we are staring at a nine game period of stinky under-developed back-up QB play ... which will certainly be fresh in the mind (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Yup. come Jan-March, I see Kwesi and Kevin pining like a couple of dead parrots over Kirk's statistical highlights, as usual disregarding their low impact and poor timing when determining the outcome of games.

You think the Vikings organization is going to watch the next nine weeks and see QB play that isn´t as good as Cousins, yet generates about the same results in terms of wins and losses and playoffs, and will then decide that the best decision is to go back to the old QB? The one who gives you the exact same overall results but costs 30 times as much to pay? Never mind any glimpses of improvement that we might see out of Dobbs or Hall - you think the team will sit around the conference table and come up with the following reasoning: "Well, it was kind of a shit sandwich either way, so let's take the shit sandwich we know. The one that's expensive and can consistently be counted on to settle in to that beautiful mediocrity we've all come to love so much. QB-rich draft be damned. Let's run it back with Kirk."

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4333

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 12:43:30 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Part of me thinks they could bring Cousins back. If the wheels fall off this season the more likely it’d be.

If we are still competitive with our backups and make a playoff push hopefully that would be enough to make a clean break.

It’s an awkward situation that will have to be felt out. The part of me that can still feel wouldn’t mine a comeback story to end all stories.

Good post.

Yes I want either / both dobbs hall to show enough to be part of the future, yes.

I agree, even if the the money makes it a really bad idea, I could see KAM pacifying KOC with another Kirk deal.

I don't believe they will resign Cousins even at a reduction simply because the cap won't let them. I mean sure, they could cut players to hollow out the roster, add more void years, and whatever, but I believe they will not take that drastic of a route. This is predicated on the assumption they will extend JJ and start negotiations with Darrisaw while continuing to pay O'Neill and Hockenson. Murphy, Oliver, etc will be getting big pay boosts. Players like Wonnum will be UFAs.

There is also $50.2 million in dead cap spread over several void years for Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport. Pretty sure it all becomes due in 2024 if those players are not extended. That sounds like it could actually point to resigning Cousins (to keep slipping the dead cap in the void years), but I'll post a rule that throws a wrench into that.

Also, KC will be 36 next year and might not even be ready to play, but those are relative sidenotes for now.

Post #: 4334

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 12:44:35 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Status: offline

Once a player reaches the void years portion of their contract and they are not re-signed to a new contract for that team, all the bonus money prorated onto the void years is accelerated to that year for cap purposes. For example, the current remaining contract for Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins reads as follows:

2023: Base Salary: $10 million,
Prorated Bonus: $10.25 million, Cap Number: $20.25 million
2024 (Void): Base Salary: $42.5 million,
Prorated Bonus: $10.25 million, Cap Number: $28.5 million
2025 (Void): Base Salary: $42.5 million,
Prorated Bonus: $10.25 million, Cap Number: $0 million
2026 (Void): Base Salary: $42.5 million,
Prorated Bonus: $4 million, Cap Number: $0 million
2027 (Void): Base Salary: $42.5 million,
Prorated Bonus $4 million, Cap Number: $0 million

Some of the prorated bonuses ($6.25 million in 2023, 2024, and 2025) were left over from the 2022 extension of Cousins, while the remaining $4 million per year was from the 2023 restructure. All that void year money ($28.5 million) is set to count against Minnesota’s cap in 2024 unless Cousins were to sign another extension to stay in Minnesota, in which case they would simply tack onto a new deal’s cap hits in their respective years.

But there is a catch. Those base salaries in 2024-2027, which are effectively dummy numbers that will never be paid, set a cap for a possible future extension. Per the CBA, a player cannot sign a new deal that includes a raise within a year of signing another deal. Cousins’ new deal is, on paper, a 5-year, $200-million deal ($40 million APY), with a $20 million signing bonus (and $180 million in paragraph 5 base salaries), a mark that cannot be exceeded should he sign a deal to remain in Minnesota before the 2024 league year. Given the current market for starting-caliber quarterbacks in the NFL, this would seem to imply that Cousins is going to take a below-market deal or test the market in 2024.

The injury might mesh with the talk of a below-market contract, but overall I believe the entire cap situation does not point to signing ANY QB to a substantial contract and instead dovetails with paying one on a rookie deal, i.e. a 1st round pick.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/1/2023 12:48:33 PM >

Post #: 4335

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:01:39 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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That's good stuff. But man, I have to read it slow.

Post #: 4336

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:28:53 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$04.2 Darrisaw
$157.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $182.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $63 million remaining, or $1.43 million on average for the other 44 players. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (but his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed above is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/1/2023 1:38:07 PM >

Post #: 4337

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:37:37 PM

David F.

Posts: 10887
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$04.2 Darrisaw
$157.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $182.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $63 million remaining, or $1.43 million on average for the other 44 players. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

I think it's fairly likely that Darrisaw won't play out the last year of his current contract. He'll hold out. I wouldn't blame him. He might be the best LT in football.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4338

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:44:14 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$04.2 Darrisaw
$157.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $182.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $63 million remaining, or $1.43 million on average for the other 44 players. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

I think it's fairly likely that Darrisaw won't play out the last year of his current contract. He'll hold out. I wouldn't blame him. He might be the best LT in football.

You're right. I thought he was on a five-year deal. OverTheCap and Spotrac show a four-year deal.

Definitely kiss Cousins goodbye.

Post #: 4339

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:50:46 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

Post #: 4340

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:52:28 PM

David F.

Posts: 10887
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$04.2 Darrisaw
$157.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $182.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $63 million remaining, or $1.43 million on average for the other 44 players. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

I think it's fairly likely that Darrisaw won't play out the last year of his current contract. He'll hold out. I wouldn't blame him. He might be the best LT in football.

You're right. I thought he was on a five-year deal. OverTheCap and Spotrac show a four-year deal.

Definitely kiss Cousins goodbye.

I think they can give him a 5th-year-option, which they probably will. I'm just not sure he plays out that 4th year.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4341

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:57:52 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

And that of course doesn't count players like Addison who will count at over $3 million, Bradbury at $5.8 million, the 2022 rookies making more, etc.

Actually, the most interesting thing about this drill is just how many starters (even excluding the 2022 and 2023 draftees) we have playing on the cheap.

Post #: 4342

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 1:59:49 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$04.2 Darrisaw
$157.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $182.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $63 million remaining, or $1.43 million on average for the other 44 players. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

I think it's fairly likely that Darrisaw won't play out the last year of his current contract. He'll hold out. I wouldn't blame him. He might be the best LT in football.

You're right. I thought he was on a five-year deal. OverTheCap and Spotrac show a four-year deal.

Definitely kiss Cousins goodbye.

I think they can give him a 5th-year-option, which they probably will. I'm just not sure he plays out that 4th year.

Oh geez, yes. I'm too far in the weeds.

Good point (twice) on his playing through his 4th year. Why would he? Big gamble.

Post #: 4343

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 2:18:38 PM

David F.

Posts: 10887
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

I just looked at spotrac.com. Right now for 2024 we're already at $208,781,562 in cap and will have dead cap of $3,507,539. This is for just 36 players and JJ at $19,743,000 which is his fifth year option. He'll likely have a new deal. So yeah, $212,000,000 is already used up and we need almost 20 more players.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4344

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 2:18:39 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

2024 FAs:

Cousins
Hunter
Davenport
Hicks
Risner
Udoh
Dobbs
Akers
Reed
Joseph
Bullard
Powell
Mundt
Quessenberry
Wonnum
Lynch
Dye
Brandel
Osborn
Muse
Tonga
Jackson
(Reid)

Post #: 4345

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 2:33:22 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

Lots of OL on the free agent list.

Our big splash in free agency will be cutting Harrison Smith. We'll sign a few injured guys to replace some of the departures.

If all the projected FAs do in fact leave and Smith is cut, then the Spielman band-aids will finally be ripped off but Kwesi has already covered some of those with his own.

Post #: 4346

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 2:38:22 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29042
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I just looked at spotrac.com. Right now for 2024 we're already at $208,781,562 in cap and will have dead cap of $3,507,539. This is for just 36 players and JJ at $19,743,000 which is his fifth year option. He'll likely have a new deal. So yeah, $212,000,000 is already used up and we need almost 20 more players.

Take a look at Lowry and Bradberry; they don't look like guaranteed contracts....that would free up 10 million. Lots of fuzzy math in the cap. Also remember base + signing bounus/years.....so Darrisaw, JJ, Hunter won't necessarily count more next year.

Also if they don't use all of the 10 million this year they can roll some over and the good old unattained bonuses will be rolled over too. (Davenport gets a $117k active game bonus---that can only increase).

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/1/2023 2:47:31 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4347

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 2:48:54 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I just looked at spotrac.com. Right now for 2024 we're already at $208,781,562 in cap and will have dead cap of $3,507,539. This is for just 36 players and JJ at $19,743,000 which is his fifth year option. He'll likely have a new deal. So yeah, $212,000,000 is already used up and we need almost 20 more players.

The $3.5 million dead cap is Cook and some other guy. That figure balloons 10+ times that amount by letting go of Cousins and Hunter. It reasons to sign them to avoid that, but that dead cap doesn't go away and with JJ, Darrisaw, and a few others we can't afford to sign them to anything substantial because even more cap would get stashed and come due later.

I suspect the Wilf's have some outside/independent people watching all that to see that the dead cap doesn't get really so out of hand. Or maybe nobody is watching the hen house. Brzez is just an astute accountant at this point.

Post #: 4348

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 2:57:49 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29910
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I just looked at spotrac.com. Right now for 2024 we're already at $208,781,562 in cap and will have dead cap of $3,507,539. This is for just 36 players and JJ at $19,743,000 which is his fifth year option. He'll likely have a new deal. So yeah, $212,000,000 is already used up and we need almost 20 more players.

Take a look at Lowry and Bradberry; they don't look like guaranteed contracts....that would free up 10 million. Lots of fuzzy math in the cap. Also remember base + signing bounus/years.....so Darrisaw, JJ, Hunter won't necessarily count more next year.

Also if they don't use all of the 10 million this year they can roll some over and the good old unattained bonuses will be rolled over too. (Davenport gets a $117k active game bonus---that can only increase).

Lowry and "Bradberry" are two of only a few examples where the cap hit isn't significant. But go ahead, cut them and save near $10 million. You think you're going to find a decent C and 3-4 DE for $10 million?

You don't know how the contracts of JJ and Darrisaw will be structured. Neither do I. But I used average salary as a reasonable middle ground.

Hunter? Ohh, you're assuming they sign him.

Roll over this years cap... lol, we'll see what's left of $10 million.

In relative terms, you're scrounging for nickels. Those nickels won't help to sign Cousins.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/1/2023 3:08:32 PM >

Post #: 4349

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:01:32 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45383
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.
Oh boy, where to begin... OK let's start with the 1-8 record. I don't give a hoot about his record with the Cardinals. I watched about a combined ten minutes of his footage and saw him navigate the pocket like a pro and step up and launch some damn bombs. That will translate to points for the Vikings. I am concerned about the fact that Dobbs and Hall are new and I addressed that in my post. Knowledge of the playbook doesn't bother me at all. Dobbs is a rocket scientist - like for real - he's done internships at NASA.

Really? There is 10 minutes of video on Dobbs? And a rocket scientist. I can only imagine what kind of QB Robert Goddard could have been.

The fact that you're tired of the Kirk/stats argument is out of my control. Go ahead and be tired of it. And yes - you have to be pretty darn good to put up good stats. Kirk is a good QB. He's just not a stone cold killer when it comes to being competitive in football.

So, to be clear, it takes a good QB to pile up numbers and Cousins is a good QB, but you still dismissed him as a stat padder.

And this is a bit persnickety but the Vikings were not the worst defesnse in football last season. They were bad, but not the worst.

Second from the worst in yards. Tied for the third most points allowed. By far the worst defense in the playoffs. Didn't make a stop until the 4th quarter of the playoff game. I stand corrected.

Also, I don't really care about the comeback wins - especially when we had no business being behind in the first place. Some of those comeback wins were like me finally crushing a day at work after procrastinating the prevoius two days. Catching up doesn't make me a hero.

With that defense we had no business ever being behind in the first place? And somehow this equates to you goofingoff at work for a couple of days.

Lastly, the beauty of this all is that we get to watch it play out.

Yes we do. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised. I just don't see any reason to believe Hall or Dobbs will take the Vikings farther than Cousins would have.[color]

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."