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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:04:09 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
Status: offline

And many teams roll over cap or get windfalls here and there from the incentive game. That means there is more money for those other teams to keep their own, sign free agents, etc and basically just drive up the price of FAs.

In fact, EVERY team has a current cap surplus however large or small, otherwise they would be violating NFL rules: Teams must remain under the set cap limit throughout the season and are fined upwards of $5 million for each infraction. In more severe cases, draft picks can be confiscated and player contracts can be voided.

Outside of teams having many tens of millions to roll over, those things are ultimately similar to the overall NFL cap increase from year to year.

Do you get this concept Phil, or are you just going to throw out some electrons to see if they stick?

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/1/2023 3:15:33 PM >

Post #: 4351

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:05:00 PM

David F.

Posts: 10878
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.
Oh boy, where to begin... OK let's start with the 1-8 record. I don't give a hoot about his record with the Cardinals. I watched about a combined ten minutes of his footage and saw him navigate the pocket like a pro and step up and launch some damn bombs. That will translate to points for the Vikings. I am concerned about the fact that Dobbs and Hall are new and I addressed that in my post. Knowledge of the playbook doesn't bother me at all. Dobbs is a rocket scientist - like for real - he's done internships at NASA.

Really? There is 10 minutes of video on Dobbs? And a rocket scientist. I can only imagine what kind of QB Robert Goddard could have been.

The fact that you're tired of the Kirk/stats argument is out of my control. Go ahead and be tired of it. And yes - you have to be pretty darn good to put up good stats. Kirk is a good QB. He's just not a stone cold killer when it comes to being competitive in football.

So, to be clear, it takes a good QB to pile up numbers and Cousins is a good QB, but you still dismissed him as a stat padder.

And this is a bit persnickety but the Vikings were not the worst defesnse in football last season. They were bad, but not the worst.

Second from the worst in yards. Tied for the third most points allowed. By far the worst defense in the playoffs. Didn't make a stop until the 4th quarter of the playoff game. I stand corrected.

Also, I don't really care about the comeback wins - especially when we had no business being behind in the first place. Some of those comeback wins were like me finally crushing a day at work after procrastinating the prevoius two days. Catching up doesn't make me a hero.

With that defense we had no business ever being behind in the first place? And somehow this equates to you goofingoff at work for a couple of days.

Lastly, the beauty of this all is that we get to watch it play out.

Yes we do. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised. I just don't see any reason to believe Hall or Dobbs will take the Vikings farther than Cousins would have.[color]

So in a nutshell, you think that the six years of mediocrity we've enjoyed can't be replicated by other sources of mediocrity. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4352

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:08:59 PM

marty

Posts: 13089
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Yes, Dobbs 1.9% interception percentage is not good. Can you imagine if it was 3.4% like the "talented" Jordan Love?

If it were 8 games into his first year of starting, I would give him the benefit of doubt because of inexperience, while some would jump to the conclusion that Dobbs has not talent, regardless of some of the plays he has made.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4353

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:16:12 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45088
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.
Oh boy, where to begin... OK let's start with the 1-8 record. I don't give a hoot about his record with the Cardinals. I watched about a combined ten minutes of his footage and saw him navigate the pocket like a pro and step up and launch some damn bombs. That will translate to points for the Vikings. I am concerned about the fact that Dobbs and Hall are new and I addressed that in my post. Knowledge of the playbook doesn't bother me at all. Dobbs is a rocket scientist - like for real - he's done internships at NASA.

Really? There is 10 minutes of video on Dobbs? And a rocket scientist. I can only imagine what kind of QB Robert Goddard could have been.

The fact that you're tired of the Kirk/stats argument is out of my control. Go ahead and be tired of it. And yes - you have to be pretty darn good to put up good stats. Kirk is a good QB. He's just not a stone cold killer when it comes to being competitive in football.

So, to be clear, it takes a good QB to pile up numbers and Cousins is a good QB, but you still dismissed him as a stat padder.

And this is a bit persnickety but the Vikings were not the worst defesnse in football last season. They were bad, but not the worst.

Second from the worst in yards. Tied for the third most points allowed. By far the worst defense in the playoffs. Didn't make a stop until the 4th quarter of the playoff game. I stand corrected.

Also, I don't really care about the comeback wins - especially when we had no business being behind in the first place. Some of those comeback wins were like me finally crushing a day at work after procrastinating the prevoius two days. Catching up doesn't make me a hero.

With that defense we had no business ever being behind in the first place? And somehow this equates to you goofingoff at work for a couple of days.

Lastly, the beauty of this all is that we get to watch it play out.

Yes we do. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised. I just don't see any reason to believe Hall or Dobbs will take the Vikings farther than Cousins would have.[color]

So in a nutshell, you think that the six years of mediocrity we've enjoyed can't be replicated by other sources of mediocrity. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

In a nutshell, I think it highly unlikely that a journeyman backup and rookie with 4 passes under his belt will step in and out perform a perenial top 10 QB.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 11/1/2023 3:18:40 PM >

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Post #: 4354

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:16:58 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78059
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

I'm not worried about Dobbs picking up the offense. He appears to be a very quick study.

He started for TN last year a week after joining the team and started for AZ two weeks after joining them this year.

Post #: 4355

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:17:22 PM

Mark C. Johnson

Posts: 1191
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Not great value for a 2020 2nd round pick...

Esp considering he was playing pretty good this year. At least according to PFF.

Again, I think this is a case where PFF falls on their faces.

Our line appears to have gotten much better the minute Ezra sat down.

I agree. Esp the screen game.

I noticed that in the Packer game. The screens were much more effective. Whether that is a result of Risner, I don't know but I did see him out leading blocks on at least of couple of the screen passes.

Post #: 4356

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:23:03 PM

Mark C. Johnson

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Joined: 8/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

David F., what do you think of Dobbs ?

He´s going to do just fine. We´ll win more games than we lose with Dobbs and/or Hall. They won't be as polished working the offense (at first) as Saint Kirk was but they'll eventually catch up. Kirk was a master at attaining excellent stats. Stats don't equal wins necessarily. On that note, yards don't equal points which was another thing this team was really good at these first eight games. I expect to see less head-scratching moments like lining up under the right guard, throwing it backwards to running backs, not spiking the ball with the clock running after a first down, etc etc...

In short, we'll see inferior stats but more wins and more points. I'm excited to see how it unfolds. Bear in mind - it will look very unpolished right off the bat.

Hall and Dobbs are just warm bodies to line up behind the center...someone has to play the position for the remainder of the year. I expect little to nothing from either, but hopefully one of them surprises me. We shall see. In defense of Dobbs, it's not easy to try and pick up a new offense mid-season.

Post #: 4357

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:24:28 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Yes, Dobbs 1.9% interception percentage is not good. Can you imagine if it was 3.4% like the "talented" Jordan Love?

If it were 8 games into his first year of starting, I would give him the benefit of doubt because of inexperience, while some would jump to the conclusion that Dobbs has not talent, regardless of some of the plays he has made.

My post compares the interception rates of Dobbs and Love. Seeing your reply trailed off:

Dobbs attempted 85 passes in his career prior to this year.

Love attempted 83 passes in his career prior to this year.

A near exact match on experience, so don't go there and get back on the topic:

For you Dobbs interceptions are 'concerning' even though his pick rate is 50% less than the "talented" Love.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/1/2023 3:28:29 PM >

Post #: 4358

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:27:36 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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I think Dobbs has talent and potential, so you must think he has no talent, but some potential ?

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Post #: 4359

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:28:30 PM

Mark C. Johnson

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Joined: 8/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cousins definitely went out on a high after his last game and a half. He's done here. But it won't be that simple for some.

There will be hope and speculation we will sign him this offseason.
After he signs elsewhere, there will be calls to trade for him.
After he retires there will be hope and 'rumors' he's coming back for a curtain call.

He left as one of the better QBs in franchise history, alas that isn't saying much for the franchise.

How do you know he won't be back? The odds probably increased instead of decreased because he won't cost as much. It all depends on how Hall/Dobbs perform and what is available in the offseason.

A want doesn't make a high % guess.

I heard an NFL "expert" on a Chicago sports radio station state that the injury makes it more likely he returns to the Vikings next year. No idea how connected the commentator is, but that was his take. Sorry, but I can't recall his name. In my opinion, the focus of the team should be on drafting a QB in Round 1. A lot of that will depend on how the rest of the season plays out. I don't think there is a lot of upside to resigning an old, immobile QB coming off a major injury.

Post #: 4360

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:29:32 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Dobbs has talent and potential, so you must think he has no talent, but some potential ?

Don't put words in my mouth because you can't deal with the Dobbs vs Love comparo.

Post #: 4361

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:30:17 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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< Message edited by marty -- 11/1/2023 3:33:26 PM >

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Post #: 4362

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:30:23 PM

Mark C. Johnson

Posts: 1191
Joined: 8/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cousins definitely went out on a high after his last game and a half. He's done here. But it won't be that simple for some.

There will be hope and speculation we will sign him this offseason.
After he signs elsewhere, there will be calls to trade for him.
After he retires there will be hope and 'rumors' he's coming back for a curtain call.

He left as one of the better QBs in franchise history, alas that isn't saying much for the franchise.

How do you know he won't be back? The odds probably increased instead of decreased because he won't cost as much. It all depends on how Hall/Dobbs perform and what is available in the offseason.

A want doesn't make a high % guess.

Vikings might bring Cousins back on the cheap and draft the QBOTF. I think that's a win/win

That could happen but I think it depends entirely on the $$$$$$ that Cousins demands.

Post #: 4363

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:30:48 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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< Message edited by marty -- 11/1/2023 3:32:39 PM >

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4364

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:31:59 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Careful, Marty will unilaterally decide after the fact that was a bet, he took it even though he didn't, and will post incessantly you owe him six farms

More like Bill will challenge you to thousands of dollars on the bet, will never pay you, and will not get it when you kid him about paying with virtual dollars, followed by incessant private messages that claim he somehow won something.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4365

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:38:39 PM

David F.

Posts: 10878
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.
Oh boy, where to begin... OK let's start with the 1-8 record. I don't give a hoot about his record with the Cardinals. I watched about a combined ten minutes of his footage and saw him navigate the pocket like a pro and step up and launch some damn bombs. That will translate to points for the Vikings. I am concerned about the fact that Dobbs and Hall are new and I addressed that in my post. Knowledge of the playbook doesn't bother me at all. Dobbs is a rocket scientist - like for real - he's done internships at NASA.

Really? There is 10 minutes of video on Dobbs? And a rocket scientist. I can only imagine what kind of QB Robert Goddard could have been.

The fact that you're tired of the Kirk/stats argument is out of my control. Go ahead and be tired of it. And yes - you have to be pretty darn good to put up good stats. Kirk is a good QB. He's just not a stone cold killer when it comes to being competitive in football.

So, to be clear, it takes a good QB to pile up numbers and Cousins is a good QB, but you still dismissed him as a stat padder.

And this is a bit persnickety but the Vikings were not the worst defesnse in football last season. They were bad, but not the worst.

Second from the worst in yards. Tied for the third most points allowed. By far the worst defense in the playoffs. Didn't make a stop until the 4th quarter of the playoff game. I stand corrected.

Also, I don't really care about the comeback wins - especially when we had no business being behind in the first place. Some of those comeback wins were like me finally crushing a day at work after procrastinating the prevoius two days. Catching up doesn't make me a hero.

With that defense we had no business ever being behind in the first place? And somehow this equates to you goofingoff at work for a couple of days.

Lastly, the beauty of this all is that we get to watch it play out.

Yes we do. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised. I just don't see any reason to believe Hall or Dobbs will take the Vikings farther than Cousins would have.[color]

So in a nutshell, you think that the six years of mediocrity we've enjoyed can't be replicated by other sources of mediocrity. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

In a nutshell, I think it highly unlikely that a journeyman backup and rookie with 4 passes under his belt will step in and out perform a perenial top 10 QB.

I would 100% agree with you on that. Who's the perenial top 10 QB? You don't mean... Cousins? OMG you mean Cousins. Thanks for the laugh. Haha. That was a good one.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4366

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:41:37 PM

Mark C. Johnson

Posts: 1191
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
Siri, what is a rabbit hole?
A rabbit hole can best be expressed by the following actual quotes:
David: List of teams with QBs who are statistically worst than Saint Kirk yet somehow have managed more, the same, or very close to, the amount of wins this season.
Phil:Are they on their #3 QB? You don't fire your HC and GM if they are blaming the QB. Aren't Atlanta, TB, and NO tied for first in their division. Pittsburgh always is in it to win it.

Thinking going to a #3 QB will be fine and normal after winning 3 games in row with a trending up Qb, Oline, and Defense....also 2 of the best games by our QB throwing to a rookie WR. Umm also not mentioning the schedule which included KC and Philly...Rabbit Hole?

Nah you both are the irrational ones.

I'm not sure any of that matters. Hall is a raw rookie starting his first NFL game. It's predictable that he'll struggle and I'd be very pleasently shocked if he played as well as Cousins. We have the remainder of the season to evaluate Hall and/or Dobbs. I don't expect much from either but that's why they play the games.

Post #: 4367

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:47:29 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Careful, Marty will unilaterally decide after the fact that was a bet, he took it even though he didn't, and will post incessantly you owe him six farms

More like Bill will challenge you to thousands of dollars on the bet, will never pay you, and will not get it when you kid him about paying with virtual dollars, followed by incessant private messages that claim he somehow won something.

LOL, I was mimicking you about the I win stuff. Incessant (copying my word I see)? Hmmm, David Boston and Bernardo Harris ring a bell?

Since you brought up the PMs, and the P apparently stands for Public, let me share with the board!

I had and am having great fun PMing Marty. It was about the GB and bet stuff where he got abused after we kicked his teams ass, his QB Love showed he sucked, and his stupid ass non-bet. After a while his PMs were boring so I decided to simply check them in the Inbox and Delete them. I told Marty this... that his PMs were literally going into the trash totally unread by anyone. Oh, and I added "I win" to those PMs.

Wouldn't ya know it. For a couple of days Marty STILL sent me stuff. I kept deleting them w/o reading and telling him this. Over and over... and over.

Finally, that was a waste of time. I told him I am going to continue to delete the PMs unread and also am not going to respond. I closed out that last PM with, of course, "I won!" LOL.

And that's what I am doing: delete as unread, no PM. Basically like blocking/ignoring him but better.

Guess what? He is STILL sending me stuff! God knows what he's yapping about as they all go into the 'round file'.

At least Phil merely threatens to go public with PMs (until I happily posted what I PMed). Marty however just comes right out with it.

I win!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/1/2023 4:06:05 PM >

Post #: 4368

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 3:51:30 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14268
Status: offline

I’m sooo happy that #3 QB is starting next game..

Hopefully, “His Blessed Holiness, Saint Kirk(Gtfoot,yl), Cousins will catch pneumonia or Laryngitis, so he can’t whisper “check down short of the line to gain…” into anyone’s helmet ear holes, during a critical drive.

Kirk Cousins is done for 2023-2024.

I hope some other team feels the need to Guarantee million of dollars for multiple Years for a “1 win in the playoffs” stat machine as Starting QB.

If KOC and KAM, turn the page, close that lousy book, and move on..

I’d extend them both immediately…

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 11/1/2023 3:53:18 PM >

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**** you all.

Post #: 4369

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 4:02:51 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
Status: offline

If KOC and KAM, turn the page, close that lousy book, and move on..

I’d extend them both immediately…

Your jest aside, no way do they get rewarded for an obvious and easy decision.

Post #: 4370

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 4:06:01 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27677
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I just looked at spotrac.com. Right now for 2024 we're already at $208,781,562 in cap and will have dead cap of $3,507,539. This is for just 36 players and JJ at $19,743,000 which is his fifth year option. He'll likely have a new deal. So yeah, $212,000,000 is already used up and we need almost 20 more players.

Take a look at Lowry and Bradberry; they don't look like guaranteed contracts....that would free up 10 million. Lots of fuzzy math in the cap. Also remember base + signing bounus/years.....so Darrisaw, JJ, Hunter won't necessarily count more next year.

Also if they don't use all of the 10 million this year they can roll some over and the good old unattained bonuses will be rolled over too. (Davenport gets a $117k active game bonus---that can only increase).

Lowry and "Bradberry" are two of only a few examples where the cap hit isn't significant. But go ahead, cut them and save near $10 million. You think you're going to find a decent C and 3-4 DE for $10 million?
You don't know how the contracts of JJ and Darrisaw will be structured. Neither do I. But I used average salary as a reasonable middle ground.
Hunter? Ohh, you're assuming they sign him.
Roll over this years cap... lol, we'll see what's left of $10 million.
In relative terms, you're scrounging for nickels. Those nickels won't help to sign Cousins.

Once again to the cheap seats..."it doesn't have to be Kirk" but if not Kirk please don't settle for someone worse. We were 1 week away (Kirk being injured after the trade deadline) from Mannion and the like of being 1 of our 2 QBs.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/1/2023 4:16:12 PM >

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Post #: 4371

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 4:08:54 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I just looked at spotrac.com. Right now for 2024 we're already at $208,781,562 in cap and will have dead cap of $3,507,539. This is for just 36 players and JJ at $19,743,000 which is his fifth year option. He'll likely have a new deal. So yeah, $212,000,000 is already used up and we need almost 20 more players.

Take a look at Lowry and Bradberry; they don't look like guaranteed contracts....that would free up 10 million. Lots of fuzzy math in the cap. Also remember base + signing bounus/years.....so Darrisaw, JJ, Hunter won't necessarily count more next year.

Also if they don't use all of the 10 million this year they can roll some over and the good old unattained bonuses will be rolled over too. (Davenport gets a $117k active game bonus---that can only increase).

Lowry and "Bradberry" are two of only a few examples where the cap hit isn't significant. But go ahead, cut them and save near $10 million. You think you're going to find a decent C and 3-4 DE for $10 million?
You don't know how the contracts of JJ and Darrisaw will be structured. Neither do I. But I used average salary as a reasonable middle ground.
Hunter? Ohh, you're assuming they sign him.
Roll over this years cap... lol, we'll see what's left of $10 million.
In relative terms, you're scrounging for nickels. Those nickels won't help to sign Cousins.

Once again to the cheap seats..."it doesn't have to be Kirk" but if not Kirk please don't settle for someone worse. We were 1-2 weeks from Mannion being 1 of 2 QBs.

I don't reply to garbled nonsense without the still to be invented Phil Decoder Ring.

Post #: 4372

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 4:12:24 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28969
Status: offline

Phil actually stayed on track about the cap (even though it carried no value) for a single reply before predictably going off the rails.

Post #: 4373

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 4:19:55 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27677
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Phil actually stayed on track about the cap (even though it carried no value) for a single reply before predictably going off the rails.

You brought up the cap for your Sans Kirk and Tank philosophy...maybe you don't remember that part of your post? Cheap seats once again "it doesn't have to be Kirk" but we have been in qb hell forever. Maybe you want a bottom 5 qb passing to JJ and Addison?

In relative terms, you're scrounging for nickels. Those nickels won't help to sign Cousins.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/1/2023 4:21:07 PM >

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Post #: 4374

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/1/2023 4:21:56 PM

Todd M

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

What is Dobbs missing that’s seen him come and go on so many teams?

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Post #: 4375