quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M
What is Dobbs missing that’s seen him come and go on so many teams?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Phil actually stayed on track about the cap (even though it carried no value) for a single reply before predictably going off the rails.

You brought up the cap for your Sans Kirk and Tank philosophy...maybe you don't remember that part of your post? Cheap seats once again "it doesn't have to be Kirk" but we have been in qb hell forever. Maybe you want a bottom 5 qb passing to JJ and Addison?

In relative terms, you're scrounging for nickels. Those nickels won't help to sign Cousins.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Well ... I'm going to have to defend Phil, like I always do.

He may be right, Cousins' injury may actually improve the chances of KAM KOC resigning him in the offseason.

(although his 'logic' is way off ... surprisingly)

One – getting injured now may leave the regime fondly remembering Kirk's transcendent early season 4-4 performance (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Two – the injury now certainly removes the chances for another Kirk-instigated wildcard game flub, which would be too fresh to dis-remember (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Three – regardless of David Fs preposterous argument, we are staring at a nine game period of stinky under-developed back-up QB play ... which will certainly be fresh in the mind (when they are scrambling for a new plan to stick to in Jan-March)

Yup. come Jan-March, I see Kwesi and Kevin pining like a couple of dead parrots over Kirk's statistical highlights, as usual disregarding their low impact and poor timing when determining the outcome of games.

You think the Vikings organization is going to watch the next nine weeks and see QB play that isn´t as good as Cousins, yet generates about the same results in terms of wins and losses and playoffs, and will then decide that the best decision is to go back to the old QB? The one who gives you the exact same overall results but costs 30 times as much to pay? Never mind any glimpses of improvement that we might see out of Dobbs or Hall - you think the team will sit around the conference table and come up with the following reasoning: "Well, it was kind of a shit sandwich either way, so let's take the shit sandwich we know. The one that's expensive and can consistently be counted on to settle in to that beautiful mediocrity we've all come to love so much. QB-rich draft be damned. Let's run it back with Kirk."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

What does a good backup command now? Mullens looks to be at $2 million this year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

Don't throw logic out there Mark of a different opinion than Bill....he wants everyone to think we would be scrounging for nickels if we choose to resign Kirk.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

Don't throw logic out there Mark of a different opinion than Bill....he wants everyone to think we would be scrounging for nickels if we choose to resign Kirk.

No, your few listed instances of cap 'savings' compared to the big cap hits show in relative terms your examples are like scrounging for nickels.

Try to keep up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

We have the huge dead cap bill because we haven't drafted well.

We have to get someone in FA that we can't afford because draft picks don't pan out.

This is what happens in a competitive rebuild.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Bill didn't catch on to my making jokes about virtual money, and now he wants to lie about private messages.

He lost the argument here, so he sent me private messages, thinking this would somehow get him the upper hand. I never sent him ANY messages, I only replied to his endless messages.

So he is lying about that, once I again I win, and Bill loses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

Don't throw logic out there Mark of a different opinion than Bill....he wants everyone to think we would be scrounging for nickels if we choose to resign Kirk.

No, your few listed instances of cap 'savings' compared to the big cap hits show in relative terms your examples are like scrounging for nickels.

Try to keep up.

We have the huge dead cap bill because we haven't drafted well.

We have to get someone in FA that we can't afford because draft picks don't pan out.

This is what happens in a competitive rebuild.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

Don't throw logic out there Mark of a different opinion than Bill....he wants everyone to think we would be scrounging for nickels if we choose to resign Kirk.

No, your few listed instances of cap 'savings' compared to the big cap hits show in relative terms your examples are like scrounging for nickels.

Try to keep up.

We have the huge dead cap bill because we haven't drafted well.

We have to get someone in FA that we can't afford because draft picks don't pan out.

This is what happens in a competitive rebuild.

Actually we have the huge dead cap bill because of both GMs mismanagement of it like giving Cousins boatloads of salary, and upcoming cap issues because Spielman DID draft well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For fun, a re-do to include Darrisaw:

2024 cap as it currently stands:

$50.2 Dead Cap (If pending UFAs Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport are not signed. Replacements will cost $.)
$03.1 Cook's dead cap
$33.0 JJ (guess)
$23.0 O'Neill
$14.1 Hockenson
$10.3 Murphy
$08.8 Phillips
$06.2 Oliver
$04.6 Lowry
$26.2 Darrisaw (guess)
$179.5 million

Add in Cousins at, say, just $25.0 and the cap outlay is $204.5 million for nine players. The 2023 cap is $225, so assume it goes to $255 next year. Subtract $10 million for in-season stuff. That's $41 million remaining, or $930K on average for the other 44 players. The vet minimum starts (at least 3 yrs accrued) at just over $1 million this year, and will likely increase, so we can't afford them. Let's Get Paid!

We can expect more void years and other tricks, but the magnitude of this seems clear. And contracts for some players like Metellus are already backloaded.

Left out Mattison's $4.6 (his dead cap would be $4 million). We could save $11.3 million on Harrison Smith if he is cut, and it seems the safety position is covered.

Again, they can choose to cut some players due to salary cap issues but everyone listed here is a starter so good luck signing good replacements for equal salaries.

But JJ and Darrisaw's cap numbers will be probably a 1/3 of the per year average for at least a couple years.

Example: JJ could have cap hits of 10 and 12M for 1st two years of contract. Then you re-negotiate and keep pushing huge numbers back.

Don't throw logic out there Mark of a different opinion than Bill....he wants everyone to think we would be scrounging for nickels if we choose to resign Kirk.

No, your few listed instances of cap 'savings' compared to the big cap hits show in relative terms your examples are like scrounging for nickels.

Try to keep up.

We have the huge dead cap bill because we haven't drafted well.

We have to get someone in FA that we can't afford because draft picks don't pan out.

This is what happens in a competitive rebuild.

Actually we have the huge dead cap bill because of both GMs mismanagement of it like giving Cousins boatloads of salary, and upcoming cap issues because Spielman DID draft well.

He didn't draft a QBOTF. Struck out every time.

I didn't write what I wrote because I want to re-sign Cousins. I think we need to draft 2 this coming draft. One in 1st round and one later in draft.

I think we need a rookie QB if we want to re-sign Hunter, JJ and Darrisaw.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Bill, you DID lie about the private messages.

You made it sound like I was messaging you, I only responded to your absurd messages.

A liar like you, is not someone anyone should make a bet with.

Other than that, I agree with your take on moving on from Cousins.