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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 3:01:18 PM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38923
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We've been to Super Bowls with a couple of QBs.

We've been to NFC Championship games with several other QBs.

After six years with Kirk, we've had one playoff victory.

Say what you will about Case Keenum, but with the clock running out he made a couple of awesome plays. With the game on the line, he decisively fired it to his playmaker and not to a slow, covered TE stuck running parallel to the LOS 5 yards short of the first down marker. He did not get ridiculed nationally for throwing short of the sticks.

I am just fine with letting Case Keenum go. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

Kirk certainly has his warts. Don't get me wrong. but moving on from Case Keenum was a good idea.

And signing Kirk was a great idea

Extending him was an OK idea, I would have preferred to try something else.

Moving on now is a good idea

JMO

Oh, I don't want either Keenum or Kirk.

I agree it's time to move on. I just hope they have a good plan and that this plan isn't hoping and praying that Jaren Hall pans out.

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Post #: 4476

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 3:41:49 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5819
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It’s not possible for Kirk cousins to be the best chance for the Vikings’ success. The team’s success with him has been laughable. We can get the same amount of success (or more) from Hall/Dobbs (as we’re about to see). Now consider giving a highly touted rookie we draft in 2024 a shot? The upside is potentially unlimited and the floor will still be mediocrity. Yet so many want to run it back with known mediocrity that comes at a high price?

You'll point to the 4-4 record and say it is equal if we finish 9-8 or 8-9.

But, I think the offense was just starting to take off and perhaps become Top 5. It sucks that Cousins got hurt because he looked to have shaken off a slow start and was on fire. OLine was awesome, Kirk was comfortable and the receivers were starting to catch everything instead of having killer drops.

Hopefully Hall or Dobbs catch fire like Cousins did the last 2 games and we go on a run. I think it will be Dobbs.

I’ll point to the last six years. And there’s multiple excuses for all six of them.

Why not just point to the last 61 years?

Because we’re changing course from the last 6 years. Before that is unchangeable.

Good point. The 55 years prior to Cousins have no relevance regarding the futility of the Cousins era.

But technically, we have already changed All that's left is some admin paperwork and maybe a Jesus statue stuck on his locker.

As long as its not a token for the guys to remember him by. He was good but not that good ...

I think the change is going to be good for Kirk. When his chariot pulls up to the next job, he won't have so much pressure hanging over him.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 11/2/2023 3:48:36 PM >

Post #: 4477

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 3:44:26 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5819
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We've been to Super Bowls with a couple of QBs.

We've been to NFC Championship games with several other QBs.

After six years with Kirk, we've had one playoff victory.

Say what you will about Case Keenum, but with the clock running out he made a couple of awesome plays. With the game on the line, he decisively fired it to his playmaker and not to a slow, covered TE stuck running parallel to the LOS 5 yards short of the first down marker. He did not get ridiculed nationally for throwing short of the sticks.

I am just fine with letting Case Keenum go. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

Kirk certainly has his warts. Don't get me wrong. but moving on from Case Keenum was a good idea.

And signing Kirk was a great idea

Extending him was an OK idea, I would have preferred to try something else.

Moving on now is a good idea

JMO

That's actually a pretty fair non-partisan view. IMO

Post #: 4478

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 4:00:04 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We've been to Super Bowls with a couple of QBs.

We've been to NFC Championship games with several other QBs.

After six years with Kirk, we've had one playoff victory.

Say what you will about Case Keenum, but with the clock running out he made a couple of awesome plays. With the game on the line, he decisively fired it to his playmaker and not to a slow, covered TE stuck running parallel to the LOS 5 yards short of the first down marker. He did not get ridiculed nationally for throwing short of the sticks.

I am just fine with letting Case Keenum go. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

Kirk certainly has his warts. Don't get me wrong. but moving on from Case Keenum was a good idea.

And signing Kirk was a great idea

Extending him was an OK idea, I would have preferred to try something else.

Moving on now is a good idea

JMO

That's actually a pretty fair non-partisan view. IMO

Yep.

Keep posting Dr. Viking. Always good stuff from you.

Post #: 4479

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 4:02:24 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We've been to Super Bowls with a couple of QBs.

We've been to NFC Championship games with several other QBs.

After six years with Kirk, we've had one playoff victory.

Say what you will about Case Keenum, but with the clock running out he made a couple of awesome plays. With the game on the line, he decisively fired it to his playmaker and not to a slow, covered TE stuck running parallel to the LOS 5 yards short of the first down marker. He did not get ridiculed nationally for throwing short of the sticks.

I am just fine with letting Case Keenum go. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

Kirk certainly has his warts. Don't get me wrong. but moving on from Case Keenum was a good idea.

And signing Kirk was a great idea

Extending him was an OK idea, I would have preferred to try something else.

Moving on now is a good idea

JMO

Oh, I don't want either Keenum or Kirk.

I agree it's time to move on. I just hope they have a good plan and that this plan isn't hoping and praying that Jaren Hall pans out.

I think we would have just waited for Mullens to come off IR if we were completely sold on Hall.

I think Dobbs could pull a Keenum type run out of his hat.

Post #: 4480

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 4:17:08 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Many thought the defense would improve, I guaranteed it would move up 10 spots, not sure where they're at right now, but they have looked good when not facing talented, savvy veterans.

would you believe 28 to now about 15?

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4481

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 4:23:17 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We've been to Super Bowls with a couple of QBs.

We've been to NFC Championship games with several other QBs.

After six years with Kirk, we've had one playoff victory.

Say what you will about Case Keenum, but with the clock running out he made a couple of awesome plays. With the game on the line, he decisively fired it to his playmaker and not to a slow, covered TE stuck running parallel to the LOS 5 yards short of the first down marker. He did not get ridiculed nationally for throwing short of the sticks.

I am just fine with letting Case Keenum go. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

Kirk certainly has his warts. Don't get me wrong. but moving on from Case Keenum was a good idea.

And signing Kirk was a great idea

Extending him was an OK idea, I would have preferred to try something else.

Moving on now is a good idea

JMO

Oh, I don't want either Keenum or Kirk.

I agree it's time to move on. I just hope they have a good plan and that this plan isn't hoping and praying that Jaren Hall pans out.

I think we would have just waited for Mullens to come off IR if we were completely sold on Hall.

I think Dobbs could pull a Keenum type run out of his hat.

I think both are more talented than Case actually. Case had the intangibles so did Teddy. Neither Case nor Teddy were as successful as they were with the Vikings---points to moving on was a good plan.

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4482

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 4:31:25 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Kevin Seifert@SeifertESPN

Something I've been wondering about and finally looked up:

Despite leading the NFL in blitz rate, the Vikings also lead the NFL in 3-man pass rushes as well (6.5/game). They have generated 2 interceptions, 4 sacks and 7 pressures in 52 dropbacks. A pretty decent changeup pitch.

Post #: 4483

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 4:36:31 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We've been to Super Bowls with a couple of QBs.

We've been to NFC Championship games with several other QBs.

After six years with Kirk, we've had one playoff victory.

Say what you will about Case Keenum, but with the clock running out he made a couple of awesome plays. With the game on the line, he decisively fired it to his playmaker and not to a slow, covered TE stuck running parallel to the LOS 5 yards short of the first down marker. He did not get ridiculed nationally for throwing short of the sticks.

I am just fine with letting Case Keenum go. He was a disaster waiting to happen.

Kirk certainly has his warts. Don't get me wrong. but moving on from Case Keenum was a good idea.

That goes without saying, especially when pointing out how Keenum showed up in the big moment, while Cousins wilted.

as a vikings QB, Keenum has the same number of playoff victories.

Granted it was in one year, while Kirk has had six. In any case both took a last minute play to pull of the win.
Remarkably similar in that regard.

Weird how much credit Case gets for Diggs catch in that playoff game---next game Case couldn't do anything outdoors in the cold and wind. Reason they signed
Kirk.

Case was great in season 11-2 for that one year...hasn't done anything since. Denver signed him and traded him after one year (outdoor home field). Case was a great indoor qb.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/2/2023 4:40:00 PM >

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4484

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 5:54:21 PM

marty

Posts: 12887
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I assume you think he will have Addison's disease...

If he gets headaches like Percy Harvin, then it's anacin for Addison.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4485

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 5:58:19 PM

Nate

Posts: 2294
Joined: 9/10/2009
From: A Galaxy Far Far Away...
Status: offline

I think Hall gives us the best chance to win this first game since he's familiar with the offense and has run time with the WRs and O-line. As a rookie, he's NFL raw and I think once some tape comes out on him he'll have to prove to KOC that he can do more than dink/dunk and QB runs. Maybe he can handle it, he's very well spoken in interviews, maybe that translates to a deeper playbook. I'd rather they give him some rope and see what he can do.

Looking at the QB video linked a while back, Dobbs has some nice traits. The Dallas win was, of course, awesome, always great to beat Dallas, but he has a nice arm, some decent anticipation and can run to buy time or pick up yards and has several TD runs. I think he would give us the best chance to win more games this year, outside of maybe this first game, since he has NFL experience and has beaten at least one good team. The INTs he has are concerning as was the comment in the video about how he missed some throws by "yards", but for almost no cost to us, I like the pickup. I wonder if they do eventually start Dobbs if they'll work in more RPO style plays or stick with the KOC style offense.

At least we have some options, and neither are named Mannion.

Post #: 4486

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 7:58:42 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40143
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

To those that are 100% sure Cousins is done I wouldn’t CYC just yet. JJ may have some sway.

Post #: 4487

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:22:12 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36191
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To those that are 100% sure Cousins is done I wouldn’t CYC just yet. JJ may have some sway.

His feelings will certainly not be ignored. Will be interesting how this unfolds.

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" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 4488

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:23:45 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 13540
Status: offline

Not a chance, Todd.. JJ wants to get paid.. “ extending” or making any more money commitment available to the Albatross, shrinks the pool of money even further..

JJ is snot thoplayer who needs to be. Kept around

Cousins is oneewe will be fine, without.

Quit giving hope to the Stan’s..

It’s over, COUSINS is done..

28 million in dead cap and other 2 million a week to do nothing but corrupt the minds of other players with coulda, shoulda, woulda BS.

Next man up.

Build a future

quit clinging to a mediocre, historically failing, money grubbing, me first, stat queen.

FTFH, GTFAA Cousins

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Post #: 4489

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:31:25 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

The way JJ can sway is by reducing his upcoming pay.

Meanwhile, another day ticks by towards Cousins' inevitable journey to free agency.

Post #: 4490

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:35:24 PM

beo

Posts: 2286
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

Watching Levis against the Steelers...

If the knock on Levis was pocket presence... I don't see it.
He has been good in the pocket to my eyes.
Reminds me of a young Josh Allen... plenty of arm strength.

It's early of course.
Love Addison... hope Vikes don't regret not taking Levis.
QBs can be found outside the top 5 picks.

Post #: 4491

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:39:44 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

From July 2022:

Minnesota Vikings general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah indicated that he doesn't see quarterback Kirk Cousins as one of the top players at his position while speaking to USA Today's Jori Epstein.

"I'll be frank," he said on Friday while discussing the team's decision to roll with Cousins while several other high-profile quarterbacks were traded in blockbuster deals this offseason. "The one asset where you get nervous about not burning it down is quarterback."

Adofo-Mensah also called Cousins a "a good quarterback" but acknowledged that "we don't have Tom Brady, we don't have Pat(rick) Mahomes."

"(The Super Bowl) is more likely to win if you have that quarterback," he added. "It's very unlikely to have that quarterback."

Ouch. Looks like Kwesi used the one-year deal to help build up his nerves for burning it down at QB. Forcing Cousins to play through the end of his contract without an extension speaks volumes. Or for visual learners, the writing is on the wall.

Post #: 4492

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:43:48 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

"a good quarterback"

Whoa Kwesi, don't go overboard on the praise!

Post #: 4493

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2023 9:46:57 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Watching Levis against the Steelers...

If the knock on Levis was pocket presence... I don't see it.
He has been good in the pocket to my eyes.
Reminds me of a young Josh Allen... plenty of arm strength.

It's early of course.
Love Addison... hope Vikes don't regret not taking Levis.
QBs can be found outside the top 5 picks.