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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:03:17 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
zulgad paraphrased something o'connell said during his post-game presser - "...the most important thing for us to do when we had the ball was force the bears to use their timeouts."....

the book that he took that from, 'nfl coaching for dummies' should have been tossed when the NFL decided to open up the passing game in the mid '90s....

Ugh - there may not be any hope. sigh

These guys will not admit they are wrong. Similar to Rocco Baldelli never bunting in extra innings.

They can be politicians when they are done coaching.
Post #: 5401
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:03:26 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline 		I don't understand how you go for it on 4th and nine--which was a good aggressive call and then become a turtle at the end. What made this team special last year was that it was generally aggressive on offense. Perhaps the interceptions and having a back up QB resulted in the conservatism, but it is still inexcusable.
Very disappointing loss. One baseline for a good team is to win the games you are supposed to win. The Vikings now have lost two games they had no business losing.
Post #: 5402
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:05:26 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline 		With the bye week they need to make a quick decision on the QB and spend all two weeks preparing that QB for the next game. I am worried they will waffle on the starting QB.
Post #: 5403
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:07:37 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

With the bye week they need to make a quick decision on the QB and spend all two weeks preparing that QB for the next game. I am worried they will waffle on the starting QB.

It will be Mullens because he is the most similar to Cousins. Hope I'm wrong.
Post #: 5404
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:09:11 PM   
marty


Posts: 12887
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		An hour ago, Dan Cole the common man was mistakenly calling Brian Flores - Ed Donatell.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5405
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:11:16 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36190
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline 		O'Connell mentioning they will deciding which QB among other things is best suited to maximize Jefferson's skills.

IMO that eliminates Dobbs.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 5406
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:15:13 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
zulgad paraphrased something o'connell said during his post-game presser - "...the most important thing for us to do when we had the ball was force the bears to use their timeouts."....

the book that he took that from, 'nfl coaching for dummies' should have been tossed when the NFL decided to open up the passing game in the mid '90s....


The Bears HC said "...the most important thing for us to do when we had the ball was force the Vikings to use their timeouts by first driving 70 yards before kicking the winning FG."
Post #: 5407
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:18:17 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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Joined: 8/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson



It has everything to do with the end of the game. If he hadn't thrown 4 picks, then it's more likely than not that the Vikings would have had more than a 1 point lead. The game was lost by the turnovers which lead to the game ending stupidty. They failed to move the ball all night...not just at the end.


I see what you are saying. But that still doesn't matter. You are using revisionist history to substitute for real time. There they were with the clock, down and distance, etc. A first down wins the game.

And again, they had just scored a TD on the 77 yard drive. So the capability was there. I guarantee you that TD was not from run, run, short pass.



You two do realize that you are BOTH right...don't you?


I agree. Both things are true. I guess my larger point was that the totality of the game illustrated that Dobbs shortcomings caused the game to come down to the final minutes. Within those final minutes, KOC made some poor decisions that allowed the Bears an opportunity to win it at the end. The only "defense" or "reason" why KOC "may" have made those decisions is that he had no confidence in his QB that had already thrown 4 interceptions. That being said, I agree that given the circumstances he should have played to win even if it meant that his QB throws another pick or an incompletion. I wonder if he would have been as conservative had Cousins been playing?
Post #: 5408
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:20:14 PM   
fmaltes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

With the bye week they need to make a quick decision on the QB and spend all two weeks preparing that QB for the next game. I am worried they will waffle on the starting QB.

It will be Mullens because he is the most similar to Cousins. Hope I'm wrong.

I could see them going with Mullens since he has the most familiarity with KOC offense. However, I don't think he is like Kirk Cousins. Actually, I see him more like Dobbs. At this point, I just want them to make the choice quickly. Non of the choices are encouraging.
Post #: 5409
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:22:40 PM   
fmaltes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

O'Connell mentioning they will deciding which QB among other things is best suited to maximize Jefferson's skills.

IMO that eliminates Dobbs.

I don't agree in that Jefferson is really dangerous receiver on 50/50 balls and on breaking routes/improvising if the QB is scrambling. But maybe Mullens provides the same things more or less than Dobbs.
Post #: 5410
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:24:49 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

Posts: 1186
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
zulgad paraphrased something o'connell said during his post-game presser - "...the most important thing for us to do when we had the ball was force the bears to use their timeouts."....

the book that he took that from, 'nfl coaching for dummies' should have been tossed when the NFL decided to open up the passing game in the mid '90s....


If that quote is true and not taken out of context, then I have a major issue with that line of thinking. It should have read, "...the most important thing for us to do when we had the ball was to GET A FIRST DOWN which would have forced the Bears to use their timeouts AND LEFT THEM LITTLE TO NO TIME ON THE CLOCK."
Post #: 5411
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:25:24 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

With the bye week they need to make a quick decision on the QB and spend all two weeks preparing that QB for the next game. I am worried they will waffle on the starting QB.



During any regular season bye week period occurring during the term of this Agreement, players will be given a minimum of four consecutive days off. Such four-day period must include a Saturday and a Sunday unless the Club is scheduled to play a game on the Thursday following the bye week, in which case players may be required to report to the Club on the Sunday preceding the Thursday game. In such an event, the four-day period shall be Wednesday through Saturday.
Post #: 5412
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:26:50 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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Joined: 8/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

There's been a lot said over "KOC is an idiot" or "Dobbs sucks". As was pointed out upstream, 2 things can be true. I'm going to say this though. As well as the D played, at times, why in the hell was Flores not keeping a spy on the outlet guy for Fields?

We would send massive pressure and right as we would get there he'd just dump it off the RB/TE that slipped out and it was a big gain. Time and time again. Love the aggression from them but damn. That was killing us.


Agreed. He was often able to beat the pressure with short, quick passes that often resulted in big gains. That needs to be addressed.
Post #: 5413
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:29:29 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline 		Wow Vikings play on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve! Difficult to schedule going to a game if you are not a local.
Post #: 5414
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:48:35 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28104
Status: offline 		Next up, the Raiders led by QB Aidan O'Connell whose 76.4 QBR is right behind Matt Jones.

After that, Jake Browning and the Bengals.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/28/2023 3:53:28 PM >
Post #: 5415
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 3:50:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28104
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

Wow Vikings play on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve! Difficult to schedule going to a game if you are not a local.


Who would want to go

Plenty of people will have sold their GB tickets.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/28/2023 4:00:47 PM >
Post #: 5416
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 4:58:08 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline 		The Vikings defense is ranked 8th with 20.2 points allowed per game. What a dramatic change from last year. With this level of defense the Vikings should be winning considering the weapons they have on offense. It just makes the loss to the Bears all that more disappointing. There is no excuse for this office not scoring at least 21 points even with a back up QB. How on earth do you score just 10 points and at home!!! It is so hard to be a Vikings fan. I just hope that the bye week results in the Vikings rebooting and doing what they should be able to do the rest of the year. At this point, I just want to see improvement and growth. Definitely seeing that on the defense both as a unit as a whole, but also development of individual rookie/young players. Less so on the offense.
Post #: 5417
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 6:10:16 PM   
Ricky J


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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

Wow Vikings play on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve! Difficult to schedule going to a game if you are not a local.


Who would want to go

Plenty of people will have sold their GB tickets.


This last one would of been tough:
4hr drive up
Gas, food, misc
Cost of tickets
0, 1, -1, punt
KFAN rants
4hr drive back
3A arrival eyes bugged out from avoiding the deer
Post #: 5418
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 7:08:49 PM   
marty


Posts: 12887
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Vikings handling the Bears last night:

https://youtube.com/shorts/G4bN35JT7Wc?si=8yTyabSOx-w9Qr96

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5419
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 10:16:56 PM   
Arlowe84

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 9/30/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

The Vikings defense is ranked 8th with 20.2 points allowed per game. What a dramatic change from last year. With this level of defense the Vikings should be winning considering the weapons they have on offense. It just makes the loss to the Bears all that more disappointing. There is no excuse for this office not scoring at least 21 points even with a back up QB. How on earth do you score just 10 points and at home!!! It is so hard to be a Vikings fan. I just hope that the bye week results in the Vikings rebooting and doing what they should be able to do the rest of the year. At this point, I just want to see improvement and growth. Definitely seeing that on the defense both as a unit as a whole, but also development of individual rookie/young players. Less so on the offense.


Who are all the “weapons”? I would argue our RBs are below league average
Hockensen is good, but there a lot good TEs in the NFL right now. We have zero other TE options
Addison, Osborne, Nailor. Meh. Below average. Addison is a good 2/3 but he lacks speed and size to be a difference maker
Post #: 5420
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/28/2023 11:19:04 PM  1 votes
David Levine


Posts: 77422
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Flores would have the killer instinct, he would just stare at the offensive coordinator, and the right plays would get called to ice the game.

Dungy - Tomlin - Don't let Flores be the next one to get away.


Is the 3 man rush “killer instinct”?

It also seems like teams are adjusting to him and learning to use his aggression against him. We’ve seen it two weeks in a row where a bad offensive team has been able to drive at will to get a score when needed.
Post #: 5421
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/29/2023 6:15:34 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Flores would have the killer instinct, he would just stare at the offensive coordinator, and the right plays would get called to ice the game.

Dungy - Tomlin - Don't let Flores be the next one to get away.


Is the 3 man rush “killer instinct”?

It also seems like teams are adjusting to him and learning to use his aggression against him. We’ve seen it two weeks in a row where a bad offensive team has been able to drive at will to get a score when needed.

They've given up one TD the last two weeks, with the opponent often having pretty good field position. If that's teams adjusting, I'll take it.
Post #: 5422
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/29/2023 6:41:44 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40143
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Hard to describe the last defensive series as any 3 man rushes. They were so gassed they basically stood up and engaged their blocker with no push or drive whatsoever.
Post #: 5423
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/29/2023 7:39:52 AM   
Brad H


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From: Parts Unknown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Everybody but Phil.. sees the reality…it’s not just this board.

We don’t have the personnel to run a slant a screen or just run the football with a third string QB. All that is on KOC?

Watch the Eagles play bully ball and you truly think we can do he same? Main example Powell and Addison have been great this year but if you don’t see their struggles going over the middle due to size. KOC isn’t the issue.

It seems to me that if you have a running back and linemen and WR’s and tight ends.. you have all the parts required to run all the plays that every other FN team manages to run..
So who is responsible for making sure those positional players know thier responsibility and execute the plays they are given to run?
Who chooses those plays?
Who is responsible for making the correct choice for every offensive situation and has designed the package that is on the field for that call..?
Do the players pick thier own plays?
Do the WR players decide which route tree they run fo a playcall?
Do the offensive line men pick and choose who to block and what zone area they are responsible for on a given call?
Who decides what player is the primary receiver for a playcall?
Who designates the direction of the slant routes or the screen play?
Who determines the play blocking and run hole for a running play?
How much leeway to check out of plays do you think 27 day Dobbs has and who has told him what his check cues are and what the change call should be?
It the FN coaches job to use the talent he has to win games.
KOC was out coached by Matt Eberflus and Sean Payton..
Every other poster and Talking head is questioning KOC and his Ability to coach to win..
You are blaming players for being “ not good enough to run plays”..


You saw the game. JJ opens up so much and KOC has been able to scheme until about last week. We haven't been able to run or run a screen all year.
KOC didn't get outcoached by Payton. Eberflus?.....Dobbs should have had 6 INTS. In both games the QB decided the game and it wasn't ours in Denver and it was mostly ours last night (More turnovers)...Microscope the turtling all you want and I don't disagree with it but if you watch what has been going on---basically teams know we are soft at WR with 2 smallish guys and a third KJ that can't get seperation plus a third string QB.

Apparently you haven't been watching what is going on. Does the majority only blame the QB play on the QB when Kirk was the QB? LOL

Go back to week 1 last year. Get a lead on Gb and shut it down for the 2nd half. Has anything changed? If anything he's getting worse. Yes Dobbs played like ass but I'll ask again. Is it illegal to pull him??


You think Mullens or Hall is the answer? I guess they will figure out who starts next but they need all the reps. Dobbs is our best shot even after the last two games.....JJ has to play for us to scheme/be a more explosive offense.

KOC is in his 2nd year as HC...the last 2 weeks are a sharp lesson; lets see if he learns.

I know Dobbs wasn't the answer last night for sure. Nobody would have been upset if he pulled him in the 3rd and tried Mullens. I doubt we have "the guy" on the roster but I also doubt we have the guy at the head coaching position.


I couldn't disagree more...KOC isn't the issue.

KOC has a lot of issues. You just refuse to see them.

He's a Trump guy. He misses most everything.


Where have you been during the win streak Brad H? Come in to fire our coach? LOL

Brad H plays both sides and the middle when convenient....

Where have I been? In short, I've got a life.

I enjoyed the win streak. The last four weeks is the most fun I've had watching the Vikings since Kirk Cousins arrived in 2018.

And even know the last game was some of the worst football I've ever seen, it was still more entertaining.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 11/29/2023 7:45:10 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5424
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/29/2023 7:45:49 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Everybody but Phil.. sees the reality…it’s not just this board.

We don’t have the personnel to run a slant a screen or just run the football with a third string QB. All that is on KOC?

Watch the Eagles play bully ball and you truly think we can do he same? Main example Powell and Addison have been great this year but if you don’t see their struggles going over the middle due to size. KOC isn’t the issue.

It seems to me that if you have a running back and linemen and WR’s and tight ends.. you have all the parts required to run all the plays that every other FN team manages to run..
So who is responsible for making sure those positional players know thier responsibility and execute the plays they are given to run?
Who chooses those plays?
Who is responsible for making the correct choice for every offensive situation and has designed the package that is on the field for that call..?
Do the players pick thier own plays?
Do the WR players decide which route tree they run fo a playcall?
Do the offensive line men pick and choose who to block and what zone area they are responsible for on a given call?
Who decides what player is the primary receiver for a playcall?
Who designates the direction of the slant routes or the screen play?
Who determines the play blocking and run hole for a running play?
How much leeway to check out of plays do you think 27 day Dobbs has and who has told him what his check cues are and what the change call should be?
It the FN coaches job to use the talent he has to win games.
KOC was out coached by Matt Eberflus and Sean Payton..
Every other poster and Talking head is questioning KOC and his Ability to coach to win..
You are blaming players for being “ not good enough to run plays”..


You saw the game. JJ opens up so much and KOC has been able to scheme until about last week. We haven't been able to run or run a screen all year.
KOC didn't get outcoached by Payton. Eberflus?.....Dobbs should have had 6 INTS. In both games the QB decided the game and it wasn't ours in Denver and it was mostly ours last night (More turnovers)...Microscope the turtling all you want and I don't disagree with it but if you watch what has been going on---basically teams know we are soft at WR with 2 smallish guys and a third KJ that can't get seperation plus a third string QB.

Apparently you haven't been watching what is going on. Does the majority only blame the QB play on the QB when Kirk was the QB? LOL

Go back to week 1 last year. Get a lead on Gb and shut it down for the 2nd half. Has anything changed? If anything he's getting worse. Yes Dobbs played like ass but I'll ask again. Is it illegal to pull him??


You think Mullens or Hall is the answer? I guess they will figure out who starts next but they need all the reps. Dobbs is our best shot even after the last two games.....JJ has to play for us to scheme/be a more explosive offense.

KOC is in his 2nd year as HC...the last 2 weeks are a sharp lesson; lets see if he learns.

I know Dobbs wasn't the answer last night for sure. Nobody would have been upset if he pulled him in the 3rd and tried Mullens. I doubt we have "the guy" on the roster but I also doubt we have the guy at the head coaching position.


I couldn't disagree more...KOC isn't the issue.

KOC has a lot of issues. You just refuse to see them.

He's a Trump guy. He misses most everything.


Where have you been during the win streak Brad H? Come in to fire our coach? LOL

Brad H plays both sides and the middle when convenient....

Where have I been? In short, I've got a life.

I enjoyed the win streak. The last four weeks is the most fun I've had watching the Vikings since Kirk Cousins arrived in 2018.


Did you have a life during the win streak?

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 5425
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