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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 2:44:51 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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Working this early sucks
Post #: 5601
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 2:45:48 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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Duplicate post.

< Message edited by Richard Neussendorfer -- 12/5/2023 2:46:56 AM >
Post #: 5602
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 7:31:41 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22696
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

No need to move up that far.

Agree. Not "my list" but the general consensus is that these are the guys that can go in the first:

Williams
May
Nix
Penix
McCarthy
Ewers
Daniels


I don't think Sanders is coming out so left him off. Haven't seen much of Daniels to comment but he has great stats. Everyone else, I've watched a good bit of. I would say hell no to Nix, Ewers and McCarthy for various reasons. Penix is my favorite guy but the injury history scares me a bit.

Williams
Maye
Daniels
McCarthy
Nix
Penix
Ewers

That's my order right now. I've see Penix a few times lately. Not sure about the side arm delivery.

McCarthy has a cannon. Underrated because Michigan doesn't pass much.


McCarthy is underrated. His progression over the last two years is pretty remarkable. He's very athletic and fast, and he's Pro-ready. Best QB in the nation on play action, and arguably the best passer in the nation outside of the pocket. His size could be an issue in the NFL. He's on the short side of 6'3"

I wouldn't be shocked though if he decided to stay in Ann Arbor.

McCarthy last 4 games he's averaging 124 yards passing and has a grand total of 1 td pass. I say no thanks.


Don't be fooled. Michigan has given up a handful of TD's the entire season. They play from the lead and run it down your throat. No need to sling it. I'm saying don't let the box scores fool you, McCarthy is the real deal. If he comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the best NFL career of this QB draft class.

On the other hand, Caleb Williams has averaged 322 yards passing per game over the last five. They won one of those games.

Do you think McCarthy should pass more to pad his stats, or just lead his team to continuous victories?

Given that it's a passing league, I'll take the guy that plays in a passing offense. I like McCarthy, but I'd take any one of 3-4 guys in the Pac 12 over him.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5603
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 8:32:33 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.


Real close either way. But every player and coach in the league knows the NFL goes out of its way to protect QBs. It's the most important position in team sports. So go ahead and deliver the big hit on the sideline... at your peril.

And the qb can also tip toe the sidelines trying to squeeze as much yardage out of it at his own peril.


By peril I meant at the risk of getting a 15 yard penalty.

And in this case the QB was not tip toeing the sidelines. But I see your point because on that play the first down marker was key. Could the defender get there is time? And with the angle of the run, the defender was going to have to deliver a hit (as opposed to just a push or whatever).

So I agree with you, but also not surprised it was flagged.

Agreed. You can't help it if the refs call silly stuff. But also let's not pretend the Chiefs got all the calls. That last play looked like a bad push in the back even by hail Mary standards.


I'm not pretending anything re who got the calls. But am saying whenever a QB, especially Pat Mahomes, is basically at the sidelines and he is hit hard, then there is a good chance a flag will come flying.

The Hail Mary's are a free for all, always have been.


The rules and officiating can't, and shouldn't, try to fix that.

Imagine just always getting the defensive PI on hail mary's. That would suck.

Also, nobody says shit about possible offensive PI on those plays. Let 'em Play.


Yeah, saw an article on that. Penalties would make hail marys near automatic.
Post #: 5604
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 8:49:37 AM  1 votes
Bill Johanesen


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Going purely off name recognition and somewhat standard lists coupled with an 8-9 or 9-8 record (depending on whether Det. rests their starters in week 18), we'll be in the mix for Ewers or McCarthy. THAT is what's left of the once promising tank
Post #: 5605
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 9:05:10 AM  1 votes
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

No need to move up that far.

Agree. Not "my list" but the general consensus is that these are the guys that can go in the first:

Williams
May
Nix
Penix
McCarthy
Ewers
Daniels


I don't think Sanders is coming out so left him off. Haven't seen much of Daniels to comment but he has great stats. Everyone else, I've watched a good bit of. I would say hell no to Nix, Ewers and McCarthy for various reasons. Penix is my favorite guy but the injury history scares me a bit.

Williams
Maye
Daniels
McCarthy
Nix
Penix
Ewers

That's my order right now. I've see Penix a few times lately. Not sure about the side arm delivery.

McCarthy has a cannon. Underrated because Michigan doesn't pass much.


McCarthy is underrated. His progression over the last two years is pretty remarkable. He's very athletic and fast, and he's Pro-ready. Best QB in the nation on play action, and arguably the best passer in the nation outside of the pocket. His size could be an issue in the NFL. He's on the short side of 6'3"

I wouldn't be shocked though if he decided to stay in Ann Arbor.

McCarthy last 4 games he's averaging 124 yards passing and has a grand total of 1 td pass. I say no thanks.


Don't be fooled. Michigan has given up a handful of TD's the entire season. They play from the lead and run it down your throat. No need to sling it. I'm saying don't let the box scores fool you, McCarthy is the real deal. If he comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the best NFL career of this QB draft class.

On the other hand, Caleb Williams has averaged 322 yards passing per game over the last five. They won one of those games.

Do you think McCarthy should pass more to pad his stats, or just lead his team to continuous victories?

Given that it's a passing league, I'll take the guy that plays in a passing offense. I like McCarthy, but I'd take any one of 3-4 guys in the Pac 12 over him.

If McCarthy played in Pac12, his numbers would be of the video game variety.
Post #: 5606
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 9:13:19 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27733
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Former Vike Jake Browning balling out tonight..


He's an ERFA after the season. Too lazy to look up the meaning of ERFA but if it involves forking over draft picks to sign him we're all in. That is the Vikings way.
Post #: 5607
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 9:18:08 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12084
Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Former Vike Jake Browning balling out tonight..


He's an ERFA after the season. Too lazy to look up the meaning of ERFA but if it involves forking over draft picks to sign him we're all in. That is the Vikings way.

Exclusive rights.

Pass on him. We saw his weak arm up close. Great game last night but shouldn't be the norm.
Post #: 5608
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 9:59:25 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38623
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Former Vike Jake Browning balling out tonight..


He's an ERFA after the season. Too lazy to look up the meaning of ERFA but if it involves forking over draft picks to sign him we're all in. That is the Vikings way.

Exclusive rights.

Pass on him. We saw his weak arm up close. Great game last night but shouldn't be the norm.

Scott Mitchell parlayed a few games in relief of Dan Marino into a big contract at the time, courted by several teams, one of which was the Vikings, but he landed with the Lions and proceeded to suck more than a hoover vacuum for the next few years. Do not take a couple of games and make a long term decision that will screw you for years. Pass indeed. If we were to do that we should give Joshua Dobbs a big contract...

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.
Post #: 5609
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 10:05:17 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27733
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Former Vike Jake Browning balling out tonight..


He's an ERFA after the season. Too lazy to look up the meaning of ERFA but if it involves forking over draft picks to sign him we're all in. That is the Vikings way.

Exclusive rights.

Pass on him. We saw his weak arm up close. Great game last night but shouldn't be the norm.

Scott Mitchell parlayed a few games in relief of Dan Marino into a big contract at the time, courted by several teams, one of which was the Vikings, but he landed with the Lions and proceeded to suck more than a hoover vacuum for the next few years. Do not take a couple of games and make a long term decision that will screw you for years. Pass indeed. If we were to do that we should give Joshua Dobbs a big contract...


So you cherry-picked the decades-old literal poster boy for that big warning?

Relax folks.
Post #: 5610
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 10:09:56 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27733
Status: offline
Found the meaning of ERFA. Keeping an ERFA is simple for NFL teams. All they have to do is extend a qualifying offer to the player, and he will be unable to negotiate with other teams. A “qualifying offer” is a one-year contract at the league minimum salary based on the player’s experience level.

Low bar to keep him off the market. Bummer!
Post #: 5611
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 10:24:47 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Former Vike Jake Browning balling out tonight..


He's an ERFA after the season. Too lazy to look up the meaning of ERFA but if it involves forking over draft picks to sign him we're all in. That is the Vikings way.

Exclusive rights.

Pass on him. We saw his weak arm up close. Great game last night but shouldn't be the norm.

Scott Mitchell parlayed a few games in relief of Dan Marino into a big contract at the time, courted by several teams, one of which was the Vikings, but he landed with the Lions and proceeded to suck more than a hoover vacuum for the next few years. Do not take a couple of games and make a long term decision that will screw you for years. Pass indeed. If we were to do that we should give Joshua Dobbs a big contract...


So you cherry-picked the decades-old literal poster boy for that big warning?

Relax folks.

They weren't going to go after Browning anyway. and there are plenty of stories like this in NFL history. We also signed the ghost of Donovan McNabb at one point.

I don't know what we will do for QB for 2024 and beyond. Browning is not the answer though. That's all I'm saying.

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.
Post #: 5612
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 10:33:57 AM   
Ricky J


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And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-
Post #: 5613
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 10:49:24 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-

You forgot everyone's fravorite...

Cousins....

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.
Post #: 5614
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 11:31:37 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77008
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-

You forgot everyone's fravorite...

Cousins....


Who?
Post #: 5615
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 11:47:44 AM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19096
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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To me, at least, there are a couple obvious answers given what we know:

Dobbs will not be a starter. Sure, he pulled a couple out of his ass but his overall play was pretty wild. We all wrote it up to "just got here". I doubt KOC will allow that long term and that's been his career MO.

Hall isn't that guy. He was drafter to be a long term question/answer to backup.

KC's. This is where it gets dicey. We know the team loves him (even if the collective fanbase doesn't). What is he going to ask for to come back? To me this is the biggest question. I can totally see them giving him a 2 year extension at about 25 a year as our bridge. Will he be willing to accept????

Draft a guy high and let him sit behind KC's assuming he accepts the offer.

Where I have no idea what they do is if KC's asks for the moon and they say 'no'. He won't have much of a market IMO. His biggest feather in his cap was SF and they are probably not interested anymore.
Post #: 5616
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:05:29 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77008
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

To me, at least, there are a couple obvious answers given what we know:

Dobbs will not be a starter. Sure, he pulled a couple out of his ass but his overall play was pretty wild. We all wrote it up to "just got here". I doubt KOC will allow that long term and that's been his career MO.

Hall isn't that guy. He was drafter to be a long term question/answer to backup.

KC's. This is where it gets dicey. We know the team loves him (even if the collective fanbase doesn't). What is he going to ask for to come back? To me this is the biggest question. I can totally see them giving him a 2 year extension at about 25 a year as our bridge. Will he be willing to accept????

Draft a guy high and let him sit behind KC's assuming he accepts the offer.

Where I have no idea what they do is if KC's asks for the moon and they say 'no'. He won't have much of a market IMO. His biggest feather in his cap was SF and they are probably not interested anymore.


Is KC even going to be ready to start next season?
Post #: 5617
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:18:15 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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From: Southern Cal
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It's a great question. No idea. I 'guess' the good thing is that he won't need a lot of reps and already knows the system.
Post #: 5618
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:27:10 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12084
Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

It's a great question. No idea. I 'guess' the good thing is that he won't need a lot of reps and already knows the system.

I wonder if Cousins did the same type of surgery as Rodgers.

Hopefully Rodgers' surgery works. To put recovery at 4 months instead of 12 months would be a great medical breakthrough.
Post #: 5619
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:34:18 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-

You forgot everyone's fravorite...

Cousins....

not really ;)

What percent would you give KC?
Post #: 5620
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:35:21 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

It's a great question. No idea. I 'guess' the good thing is that he won't need a lot of reps and already knows the system.

I wonder if Cousins did the same type of surgery as Rodgers.

Hopefully Rodgers' surgery works. To put recovery at 4 months instead of 12 months would be a great medical breakthrough.

I wonder what the difference in the damage is/was?
Post #: 5621
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:36:14 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77008
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

It's a great question. No idea. I 'guess' the good thing is that he won't need a lot of reps and already knows the system.

I wonder if Cousins did the same type of surgery as Rodgers.

Hopefully Rodgers' surgery works. To put recovery at 4 months instead of 12 months would be a great medical breakthrough.


It sounds like Rodgers isn't going to make it back this year. And I wonder how strong/durable it will even be in real game situations? Do you rush back and have it explode the first time you take a hit or plant wrong?
Post #: 5622
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:39:49 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12084
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-

You forgot everyone's fravorite...

Cousins....

not really ;)

What percent would you give KC?

It's smart to say you want Cousins back. Someone will up their offer and that helps us with the compensatory picks.
Post #: 5623
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 12:39:52 PM   
Ricky J


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If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN
Post #: 5624
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:01:06 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77008
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.
Post #: 5625
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