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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:06:40 PM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

It's a great question. No idea. I 'guess' the good thing is that he won't need a lot of reps and already knows the system.

I wonder if Cousins did the same type of surgery as Rodgers.

Hopefully Rodgers' surgery works. To put recovery at 4 months instead of 12 months would be a great medical breakthrough.


Different surgeries.

Cousins may very well miss 6 to 8 weeks to start the season. I don’t know how you work out a contract with that.
Post #: 5626
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:10:42 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

To me, at least, there are a couple obvious answers given what we know:

Dobbs will not be a starter. Sure, he pulled a couple out of his ass but his overall play was pretty wild. We all wrote it up to "just got here". I doubt KOC will allow that long term and that's been his career MO.

Hall isn't that guy. He was drafter to be a long term question/answer to backup.

KC's. This is where it gets dicey. We know the team loves him (even if the collective fanbase doesn't). What is he going to ask for to come back? To me this is the biggest question. I can totally see them giving him a 2 year extension at about 25 a year as our bridge. Will he be willing to accept????

Draft a guy high and let him sit behind KC's assuming he accepts the offer.

Where I have no idea what they do is if KC's asks for the moon and they say 'no'. He won't have much of a market IMO. His biggest feather in his cap was SF and they are probably not interested anymore.


We, in fact, do not know that. If the team loved him they would have extended him before this season. The players say they love him but they pretty much have to say that. Players from other teams don't all love him. Cam Jordan, when explaining how fast wrong decisions can be better than correct slow decisions referred to correct slow decisions as "Kirk Cousins". Amare Cooper said that Dak Prescott is "Black Kirk Cousins".

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5627
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:10:47 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39692
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I say we wish him well and he’ll go about his business getting that it’s a business.

Injury has provided the out.
Post #: 5628
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:14:48 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18174
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.

No doubt. You really don't hear of anyone playing for the min. to win a ring
Post #: 5629
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:25:41 PM  1 votes
David Levine


Posts: 76671
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.

No doubt. You really don't hear of anyone playing for the min. to win a ring


Brady took a bit of a cut late in his career to try to keep winning titles, but he also had the huge advantage of his (then) wife making way more money than he ever could.

So maybe if Kelce and Swift tie the knot, we'll see him take a late career pay cut too...
Post #: 5630
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 1:52:24 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

Three of those words do not go together. Hint, they are bolded.
Post #: 5631
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 2:16:21 PM   
marty


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Assuming the Vikings are picking around #16-22, I don't see why they couldn't move up to between 8-10 to get a QB they're targeting.

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Post #: 5632
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 2:45:54 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18174
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

Three of those words do not go together. Hint, they are bolded.

No hint needed. I'm aware

I disagree - but you knew that ...
Post #: 5633
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 2:47:03 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18174
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Assuming the Vikings are picking around #16-22, I don't see why they couldn't move up to between 8-10 to get a QB they're targeting.

Then the one they get at 10 doesnt work out but the #20 will -
Post #: 5634
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:07:59 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-


Your post is an indictment on the Vikings front office. Not necessarily Kwesi because this is only his second year, but it highlights the complete lack of foresight in planning for Cousins replacement. The cupboard is literally empty and it appears the team will not be drafting high enough to take one of the more highly touted QB prospects. Not having a solid plan in place for the single most important position on the team is the definition of incompetence.

My take on this failure to plan is that the Vikings seem to be in win now mode every single year. When that is your mindset, you're unlikely to "waste" a high draft pick to develop a QBOTF because your going for it every year so you end up drafting player(s) that fill an immediate need. Just a thought.
Post #: 5635
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:09:50 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27447
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

Three of those words do not go together. Hint, they are bolded.

No hint needed. I'm aware

I disagree - but you knew that ...


Tried to make it a generic board post by not specifically quoting. No matter, that topic is rehashed six-year old slop.
Post #: 5636
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:19:09 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
Not having a solid plan in place for the single most important position on the team is the definition of incompetence.


Same boat as DE too. The 2 most important important positions on the team are total unknowns at this point.
Post #: 5637
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:25:14 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

And the 2024 Viking starter in game 1 is .....

- Hall? less than 50%

- Dobbs? gotta finish pretty strong the last 5

- rookie? hmmm

-


Your post is an indictment on the Vikings front office. Not necessarily Kwesi because this is only his second year, but it highlights the complete lack of foresight in planning for Cousins replacement. The cupboard is literally empty and it appears the team will not be drafting high enough to take one of the more highly touted QB prospects. Not having a solid plan in place for the single most important position on the team is the definition of incompetence.

My take on this failure to plan is that the Vikings seem to be in win now mode every single year. When that is your mindset, you're unlikely to "waste" a high draft pick to develop a QBOTF because your going for it every year so you end up drafting player(s) that fill an immediate need. Just a thought.


Years ago, Spielman signed the likes of Rhodes, Barr, Hendricks, Hunter, Cousins, etc. to keep the win now mode intact. After most of them dropped off for various reasons, we treaded water on the talent level. Add in the cap issues, and we've struggled to stockpile talent.

I think they simply took risk by banking on Cousins not sustaining a significant injury in order to fill needs. Meanwhile, every year many fans delude themselves into thinking the team is a top-rung contender.

But yeah, letting Cousins play out his contract without an alternative is reckless. Well, perhaps they were hoping for a one-year bridge. But ultimately it may also be a sign that enough is enough... that the old order did not get it done and isn't expected to so it's time to move on.
Post #: 5638
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:31:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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And the cap problem isn't necessarily going to be fixed, at least not by next year. More like the big dollar vets were cut and that money will go to a couple of newbies while the $50+ million in dead cap runs its course.
Post #: 5639
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:37:18 PM   
fmaltes

 

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They are unknown to us, but I don't think it is unknown to the front office. They have a plan and they certainly do not need to let the public know what is the plan. That will be evident in their actions after the season. I think they will try to sign Cousins, JJ and Hunter. I also think they will restructure O'Neill as well. That is my unsubstantiated guess. However, I do think we will see a clear plan emerge to us in the off season. You can criticize Kwesi all you want, but one thing he is not is dumb.
Post #: 5640
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:41:54 PM   
fmaltes

 

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Brad, as you know there will be some serious stud CBs in this draft. What if one of those stud CBs is available, would you take one of them over a QB like Nix? Or would you still go QB? I am interested in your opinion since you follow college football.
Post #: 5641
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:56:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

They are unknown to us, but I don't think it is unknown to the front office. They have a plan and they certainly do not need to let the public know what is the plan. That will be evident in their actions after the season. I think they will try to sign Cousins, JJ and Hunter. I also think they will restructure O'Neill as well. That is my unsubstantiated guess. However, I do think we will see a clear plan emerge to us in the off season. You can criticize Kwesi all you want, but one thing he is not is dumb.


At best, all they have is a plan. More like a cross between a wish list and a vague blueprint. A plan that will immediately be affected on hour one of the legal tampering period.

They do not know how any Vikings free agents will respond to any other offers, they do not know what FAs will be available, they do not know if any offer they make to any FA will be accepted, they do not know whether anyone in the draft they like will be available in the round they are projected to go in.

Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get hit.

Once 31 other teams engage, the plan goes out the window. And right now they have $50+ million in dead cap to deal with (which could get reshuffled if they resign certain players).
Post #: 5642
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:58:53 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11987
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.

No doubt. You really don't hear of anyone playing for the min. to win a ring

There is also pressure from the agent and the other players in the league. You need to get the most you can get so the Franchise Tags go up. So the Owners/GM don't want to use it.
Post #: 5643
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 3:59:17 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18174
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

Three of those words do not go together. Hint, they are bolded.

No hint needed. I'm aware

I disagree - but you knew that ...


Tried to make it a generic board post by not specifically quoting. No matter, that topic is rehashed six-year old slop.

I left him off of the 2024 starter post. But, honestly fig it goes without saying he's at least in the conv so I'm guilty of bringing him up
Post #: 5644
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 4:02:11 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18174
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.

No doubt. You really don't hear of anyone playing for the min. to win a ring

There is also pressure from the agent and the other players in the league. You need to get the most you can get so the Franchise Tags go up. So the Owners/GM don't want to use it.

But there has to be exceptions if you really wanted to take that route
Post #: 5645
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 4:03:27 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11987
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

They are unknown to us, but I don't think it is unknown to the front office. They have a plan and they certainly do not need to let the public know what is the plan. That will be evident in their actions after the season. I think they will try to sign Cousins, JJ and Hunter. I also think they will restructure O'Neill as well. That is my unsubstantiated guess. However, I do think we will see a clear plan emerge to us in the off season. You can criticize Kwesi all you want, but one thing he is not is dumb.


At best, all they have is a plan. More like a cross between a wish list and a vague blueprint. A plan that will immediately be affected on hour one of the legal tampering period.

They do not know how any Vikings free agents will respond to any other offers, they do not know what FAs will be available, they do not know if any offer they make to any FA will be accepted, they do not know whether anyone in the draft they like will be available in the round they are projected to go in.

Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get hit.

Once 31 other teams engage, the plan goes out the window. And right now they have $50+ million in dead cap to deal with (which could get reshuffled if they resign certain players).

The Plan almost has to be low salary QB and then see if you can get Hunter, JJ and Darrisaw signed to contracts that don't cripple you going forward.

It might end up being signing JJ and Wonnum and wait for the next year for Darrisaw.

Or maybe trade O'Neil and sign Hunter.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 12/5/2023 4:06:47 PM >
Post #: 5646
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 4:05:31 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 11987
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.

No doubt. You really don't hear of anyone playing for the min. to win a ring

There is also pressure from the agent and the other players in the league. You need to get the most you can get so the Franchise Tags go up. So the Owners/GM don't want to use it.

But there has to be exceptions if you really wanted to take that route

In Cousins case there would be. He is not in the Top 5 QB salaries and won't be going forward.
Post #: 5647
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 4:25:18 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

Three of those words do not go together. Hint, they are bolded.

No hint needed. I'm aware

I disagree - but you knew that ...


Tried to make it a generic board post by not specifically quoting. No matter, that topic is rehashed six-year old slop.

I left him off of the 2024 starter post. But, honestly fig it goes without saying he's at least in the conv so I'm guilty of bringing him up


Well, bringing him back could help with the $28.5 million in dead cap in that it wouldn't all come due. It's still there but Kwesi loves kicking the can and Void Year Brzez would have a field day. IMO that's the only advantage but overall the cotton is too tall. Rip that band-aid off and take the pain!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/5/2023 4:30:15 PM >
Post #: 5648
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 4:27:53 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

They are unknown to us, but I don't think it is unknown to the front office. They have a plan and they certainly do not need to let the public know what is the plan. That will be evident in their actions after the season. I think they will try to sign Cousins, JJ and Hunter. I also think they will restructure O'Neill as well. That is my unsubstantiated guess. However, I do think we will see a clear plan emerge to us in the off season. You can criticize Kwesi all you want, but one thing he is not is dumb.


At best, all they have is a plan. More like a cross between a wish list and a vague blueprint. A plan that will immediately be affected on hour one of the legal tampering period.

They do not know how any Vikings free agents will respond to any other offers, they do not know what FAs will be available, they do not know if any offer they make to any FA will be accepted, they do not know whether anyone in the draft they like will be available in the round they are projected to go in.

Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get hit.

Once 31 other teams engage, the plan goes out the window. And right now they have $50+ million in dead cap to deal with (which could get reshuffled if they resign certain players).

The Plan almost has to be low salary QB and then see if you can get Hunter, JJ and Darrisaw signed to contracts that don't cripple you going forward.

It might end up being signing JJ and Wonnum and wait for the next year for Darrisaw.

Or maybe trade O'Neil and sign Hunter.


Agree.
Post #: 5649
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2023 5:50:04 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9300
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

They are unknown to us, but I don't think it is unknown to the front office. They have a plan and they certainly do not need to let the public know what is the plan. That will be evident in their actions after the season. I think they will try to sign Cousins, JJ and Hunter. I also think they will restructure O'Neill as well. That is my unsubstantiated guess. However, I do think we will see a clear plan emerge to us in the off season. You can criticize Kwesi all you want, but one thing he is not is dumb.


At best, all they have is a plan. More like a cross between a wish list and a vague blueprint. A plan that will immediately be affected on hour one of the legal tampering period.

They do not know how any Vikings free agents will respond to any other offers, they do not know what FAs will be available, they do not know if any offer they make to any FA will be accepted, they do not know whether anyone in the draft they like will be available in the round they are projected to go in.

Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get hit.

Once 31 other teams engage, the plan goes out the window. And right now they have $50+ million in dead cap to deal with (which could get reshuffled if they resign certain players).

The Plan almost has to be low salary QB and then see if you can get Hunter, JJ and Darrisaw signed to contracts that don't cripple you going forward.

It might end up being signing JJ and Wonnum and wait for the next year for Darrisaw.

Or maybe trade O'Neil and sign Hunter.


Agree.



absolutely no, to cousins - eat the $28mm dead cap in '24....

i'm not done with dobbs yet...a 'better o'connell' and dobbs could still work (for one year?)....

trade o'neill, cut harry, restructure jj, sign hunter, do darrisaw in '25 - and we're still $50mm under the cap in 2024....

sign dobbs, draft qb 1st round, sign dt, draft dt 2nd round, sign guard, draft rt 3rd round....

other possible cuts: bradbury $5.7mm, murphy $5mm....

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the journey...is paradise.
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