Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums  Register  Login  My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums 

Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ  Ticket List  Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talk

 
Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk Page: <<   < prev  234 235 [236] 237 238   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 11:00:26 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
Weren't there a lot of complaints about Cleveland not being any good before we traded him?
Maybe I'm wrong, but if not, it can't be too hard to replace someone that's not any good?
Post #: 5876
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 11:07:16 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19084
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Weren't there a lot of complaints about Cleveland not being any good before we traded him?
Maybe I'm wrong, but if not, it can't be too hard to replace someone that's not any good?

I think there were plenty of complaints on both sides. Some were also upset we traded a 2nd? Round player and got a late pick back. I didn't mind the trade personally but I don't know how the depth guys are either.
Post #: 5877
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 11:20:29 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 76986
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Weren't there a lot of complaints about Cleveland not being any good before we traded him?
Maybe I'm wrong, but if not, it can't be too hard to replace someone that's not any good?


Yeah, He struggled. But he was durable and we didn't have anyone better to replace him.

I don't see how a 2024 6th round pick 6 games into the 2023 season is more valuable than that.
Post #: 5878
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 11:41:56 AM   
beo

 

Posts: 2223
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Flores is an INCREDIBLE defensive coordinator.

But people have serious short term memory on his head coaching stint.
He was not a great head coach.
He was not good for Tua.

Best case scenario is Flores beef with the NFL and some of his bad press by Tua/former players keeps him with Vikes for another year and KOC improves.

I'm gonna push back on that a little bit. Flores won eight of his last nine games as the head coach in Miami. How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?

He was riddled with injuries during his tenure as the head coach and is largely responsible for the turnaround of the franchise.


Again... Flores is an INCREDIBLE coordinator.
But I don't know if he is an upgrade on KOC or not. maybe?

Same things you credit Flores with you can attribute to KOC.

"How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?"
KOC is what... 20-10.
How many guys get fired starting out with 2-1 win ratio.

"He was riddled with injuries"
KOC lost Kirk.

KOC/Flores both with zero playoff wins.

Could he be great?
Yep, possible.
But I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk.

It's an offensive league.
Ideal scenario is offensive genius HC and defensive guru DC.

IMO of course.

I never said anything about KOC. You said Flores was not a great coach. I responded.

The best thing for Tua was landing #10. We saw that on display last night. Tyreek Hill is the most valuable player on that team.


Fair enough... but the broader discussion is replacing KOC with Flores.

I didn't say Flores was terrible... I meant that he is hardly proven to be a great head coach.

You have to do more than he has done in my opinion to be considered a great head coach.
Flores is still just as unproven as a head coach as KOC.

< Message edited by beo -- 12/12/2023 11:51:22 AM >
Post #: 5879
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 11:58:10 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19084
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Flores is an INCREDIBLE defensive coordinator.

But people have serious short term memory on his head coaching stint.
He was not a great head coach.
He was not good for Tua.

Best case scenario is Flores beef with the NFL and some of his bad press by Tua/former players keeps him with Vikes for another year and KOC improves.

I'm gonna push back on that a little bit. Flores won eight of his last nine games as the head coach in Miami. How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?

He was riddled with injuries during his tenure as the head coach and is largely responsible for the turnaround of the franchise.


Again... Flores is an INCREDIBLE coordinator.
But I don't know if he is an upgrade on KOC or not. maybe?

Same things you credit Flores with you can attribute to KOC.

"How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?"
KOC is what... 20-10.
How many guys get fired starting out with 2-1 win ratio.

"He was riddled with injuries"
KOC lost Kirk.

KOC/Flores both with zero playoff wins.

Could he be great?
Yep, possible.
But I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk.

It's an offensive league.
Ideal scenario is offensive genius HC and defensive guru DC.

IMO of course.

I never said anything about KOC. You said Flores was not a great coach. I responded.

The best thing for Tua was landing #10. We saw that on display last night. Tyreek Hill is the most valuable player on that team.


Fair enough... but the broader discussion is replacing KOC with Flores.

I didn't say Flores was terrible... I meant that he is hardly proven to be a great head coach.

You have to do more than he has done in my opinion to be considered a great head coach.
Flores is still just as unproven as a head coach as KOC.

Seems fair to me.
Post #: 5880
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 12:14:08 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Weren't there a lot of complaints about Cleveland not being any good before we traded him?
Maybe I'm wrong, but if not, it can't be too hard to replace someone that's not any good?


Yeah, He struggled. But he was durable and we didn't have anyone better to replace him.

I don't see how a 2024 6th round pick 6 games into the 2023 season is more valuable than that.

Maybe so. I probably don't know enough to even get into this particular conversation. I went and looked at the practice squad and am posting the only OL transactions since 8/31:

11/20 Activated G/C Chris Reed to 53-man roster.
11/4 OL Coy Cronk to practice squad
10/31 traded Cleveland
8/31 OL Hakeem Adeniji, OL Henry Byrd and OL Tyrese Robinson to the practice squad

- I tell ya, the practice squad has a lot of movement but not much in the way of OL
Post #: 5881
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 1:49:22 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Weren't there a lot of complaints about Cleveland not being any good before we traded him?
Maybe I'm wrong, but if not, it can't be too hard to replace someone that's not any good?


Yeah, He struggled. But he was durable and we didn't have anyone better to replace him.

I don't see how a 2024 6th round pick 6 games into the 2023 season is more valuable than that.

Maybe so. I probably don't know enough to even get into this particular conversation. I went and looked at the practice squad and am posting the only OL transactions since 8/31:

11/20 Activated G/C Chris Reed to 53-man roster.
11/4 OL Coy Cronk to practice squad
10/31 traded Cleveland
8/31 OL Hakeem Adeniji, OL Henry Byrd and OL Tyrese Robinson to the practice squad

- I tell ya, the practice squad has a lot of movement but not much in the way of OL

He wasn't well liked by the board. About a half page of criticism:

http://talkvikes.gorge.net/tm.aspx?m=1725411&mpage=171
Post #: 5882
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 2:09:10 PM  1 votes
Mark C. Johnson

 

Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hot takes while connecting in Denver: I have no problem who they start at qb for any game going forward - including Dobbs. Dude played poorly yesterday but not as poorly as it seemed. He outperformed every O lineman and every pass catcher not named Jefferson.

Mattison continues to be the adequate running back we expected. I’m still puzzled by the hate he gets from fans.

It’s too early to judge Kevin O’Connell. I won’t make a judgement on him until he gets a quality qb of his choosing or until he completes five years.

If Flores says ‘make me head coach or I walk’ I’d have to really think it over and wouldn’t be afraid to say ok or sorry.

Lots of twitter folks asking if anyone misses Kirk cousins now. I guess yesterday’s game was kind of the Super Bowl for Kirk fans (they lose again btw). I don’t miss him. We continue to get the same results with him or without him. I don’t care if he gets yards or TDs more efficiently. I don’t cheer for stats. I cheer for the chance to reach the Super Bowl. If I were a Kirk fan I’d be careful about promising the team would be so much better with him when we get better results without him and he’s replaced with a pile of below-average nobodies.

I look forward to taking a chance on a rookie qb with the possibility of being a quality player on a cheap deal with skills for the modern game. I’ll like it even better if that player is perceived by fans and media as being an awesome Christian and excellent family man. I hope the new guy’s wife buys his clothes for him at Kohls. Why? Because I know MN fans and media eat that shit up and I want the new guy to feel appreciated and at home. Just don’t be a check down coward that just works here.



What are you trying to justify David? Your First, 3rd, 4th, and 5th sentences seem to somehow deflect that your philosphy of any QB coming in and scoring more than 20 points was wrong?

Most are at best 50% that Kirk should be back....

How about you just say you are wrong in what you thought.....it isn't easy getting a qb that can throw for 16 TDS in 6.75 games is it? There just aren't that many decent QBs; even as a backup.


I’m not, and never have, trying to lump our backups into the good pile. I am, and have been, lumping cousins into the not-great pile.

More hot takes: I’d like to sell you a car. I have four available for sale. All four of them get you to the same place which is not near where you want to go. One of them has nice paint. The nice paint one costs 30x what the other three do. Will that be cash or finance? Of course it will be finance. We’ll stick a bunch of the cost into a year in which you don’t even own it anymore.

Edit - P.S. Hang the 16 TDs in 6.75 games banner! Hang it next to the “AD got a whole bunch of yards” banner. All I wanted was a ‘clock the ball and beat the chargers” banner.


If the question is whether the team should bring back Cousins next year the answer should be "no". Is he better than the other QB's currently on the roster? Yes. But, David's point is a valid one. Cousins joined the team in 2018. Despite playing under multiple different offensive coordinators and completely different rosters over the years he's been unable to get the team to an NFC Championship game let alone a Super Bowl. Is he a "good" QB? Yes. But, history shows that being "good" is his ceiling. To expand on the car analogy, he doesn't have the next gear to carry a team to a Super Bowl win.

There are times when a sports franchise has to take a step backward before it can take a leap forward. The problem that I've seen with the Vikings is this desire to "compete" every year. If competing means challenging for the Super Bowl, then I'm all in. If it means just making the playoffs, then that isn't a big accomplishment given that a total of 14 teams or about 44% of the NFL gets into the playoffs. What bothered me about Kwesi's "competitive rebuild" is that it seems to be about "making the playoffs" which really isn't that big of a deal anymore. I prefer a GM that looks at the big picture from Day 1 with the understanding that every single draft pick, every trade, every free agency acquisition and coaching hire is done with one goal in mind...does it move the needle toward winning the Super Bowl? With that in mind, don't resign Cousins because history shows he can not bring this team to the Super Bowl. Cut Mullens after this season. He's a nobody that never was or will be. Bring in the very best QB's that you can get your hands on until you land the QB that has that higher gear that quarterbacks like Cousins simply will never have.
Post #: 5883
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 2:34:02 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

KOC is a bum and should be shown the door and Flores made HC.

Any time is good.

Most, if not all of us, felt that way about Tomlin and we were right. I'm afraid the same thing is about to happen. Not that O'Connell deserves to get fired, he doesn't, but Flores looks like he could be a keeper. Highly doubt the Wilf's have the gonads.


I'm a Cub's fan...okay, no hate! I bring up the Cubs to illustrate why the Vikings may want to fire KOC and hire Flores. In 2014, the Cubs manager was Rick Renteria. He was a decent manager but when Joe Maddon became available, the GM of the team, Theo Epstein, didn't hesitate to fire Renteria and hire Maddon in 2015. As we all know, Maddon went on in 2016 to lead the Cubs to their first World Series victory since 1908. Epstein could have just kept Renteria...he was safe, a good person and well liked by the players. But, he took a risk to go after the guy he felt could lead the team not to a "good" season, but rather, a great one. Flash forward to this offseason in baseball. The Cubs had a good manager in David Ross...a beloved World Series hero in Chicago and very well liked by the players. What did the new GM, Jed Hoyer, do with Ross who had one year left on his contract? He fired him and hired Craig Counsell from the Brewers. Will Counsell lead the Cubs to a World Series championship? Only time will tell, but the point is if you think there is a coach out there that can elevate your team from competitive to a championship, then you make that move.

The question for Kwesi is will he "play it safe" and keep the head coach that he selected or will he open his eyes to the possibility that Flores could be the Vikings version of Maddon? If I was sitting in Kwesi chair, that's the question I'd be asking myself.
Post #: 5884
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 2:35:28 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

The best thing for Tua was landing #10. We saw that on display last night. Tyreek Hill is the most valuable player on that team.

I just saw the tackle multiple times from different angles on Twitter - I can't see a thing that he should get fined for ...
Post #: 5885
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 2:37:32 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:

to illustrate why the Vikings may want to fire KOC and hire Flores

I wonder if front offices laugh over this kind of stuff having their morning coffee?
Post #: 5886
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 2:57:37 PM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

Posts: 1153
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL:

to illustrate why the Vikings may want to fire KOC and hire Flores

I wonder if front offices laugh over this kind of stuff having their morning coffee?


The point is that "safe" moves rarely win championships. I provided two recent examples of a front office executives who had good coaches but took a chance on hiring a potential great ones. Take a look at what Flores has done with mostly the same players that Donatell had last year. It's night and day anv very damn impressive. Am I saying that KOC should be fired? No, not necessarily, but the job of the GM is to consider ALL possibilities at making your team great. If I were a front office person in the NFL enjoying my morning coffee, I'd certainly have Flores on my list as a potential head coach.

Didn't the Vikings loss Dungy and Tomlin because they failed to identify their potential as a head coach? Always, always be looking to improve your team in every way possible even if it seems unconventential at the time.
Post #: 5887
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 3:11:14 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
You've listed some successful moves using 20/20. I'm sure more can be listed that have failed.
-Also, you could use Pitt as an excuse to not get too excited about making a change 'cause you lost two in a row to Den & Chi (with a back up)
Post #: 5888
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 3:15:42 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76986
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL:

to illustrate why the Vikings may want to fire KOC and hire Flores

I wonder if front offices laugh over this kind of stuff having their morning coffee?


The point is that "safe" moves rarely win championships. I provided two recent examples of a front office executives who had good coaches but took a chance on hiring a potential great ones. Take a look at what Flores has done with mostly the same players that Donatell had last year. It's night and day anv very damn impressive. Am I saying that KOC should be fired? No, not necessarily, but the job of the GM is to consider ALL possibilities at making your team great. If I were a front office person in the NFL enjoying my morning coffee, I'd certainly have Flores on my list as a potential head coach.

Didn't the Vikings loss Dungy and Tomlin because they failed to identify their potential as a head coach? Always, always be looking to improve your team in every way possible even if it seems unconventential at the time.


Since 2001 we've had 3 former coordinators go on to win SBs.

Its kind of our thing.
Post #: 5889
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 3:23:30 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12975
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
Mark mskes a valid point..

Brian Flores IS GOING TO GET HEAD COACHING OFFERS.

HOW MANY TEAMS HAVE PITCHED A DIVIONAL OPPONENT SHUTOUT, THIS SEASON.

I think he deserves a shot at head coach, based simply on the abi,it’s to greatly inprove not only the defense, but individual players and scheme.

His three man rush choices, annoy the living hell out of me, esp ially if the 8 man cover allows a first down play…

ARRRG!

But between the Rooney Rule and the number of coaches that WILL BE ON THE HOTSEAT, HE WILL GET AT LEAST ONE OFFER.

KOC is not impressing me at all.. I’d hate to lose Flores, just because we can’t eat KOC’s contract or he might just quit if demoted to OC..

So I propose, to both keep Flores, and KOC, for now, is an offer to make Flores Co-HeadCoach, to keep Flores here and to put KOC on notice that his leash is now shorter for offensive Production and win…domination type wins.

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 5890
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 3:29:14 PM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
There will be plenty of head coaches fired that were excellent DCs at one point in their career.

Hopefully Flores stays, but if not, reload and move forward.
Post #: 5891
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 5:02:39 PM   
kevinemmer


Posts: 4654
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
So I propose, to both keep Flores, and KOC, for now, is an offer to make Flores Co-HeadCoach, to keep Flores here and to put KOC on notice that his leash is now shorter for offensive Production and win…domination type wins.
Danno

I'm on board with this.

And approve of this message...lol

< Message edited by kevinemmer -- 12/12/2023 5:05:36 PM >
Post #: 5892
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 5:28:28 PM   
marty


Posts: 12771
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
"Flores is just as unproven of a HC as KC".

Beo, Tony Dungy was also unproven as a HC, and Mike Tomlin was just as unproven as a head coach as whomever it was he was under.

But they proved to be knowledgeable and effective DCs, just like BFLO, and he seems forward thinking and innovative.

Why do some people assume we have to let BFLO go, when he CAN be promoted ?

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5893
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 6:51:55 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19084
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
To answer your question Marty, because it's our thing. To let coordinators go on to win titles elsewhere. Ownership isn't serious about winning titles. Just keep filling US Bank.
Post #: 5894
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 8:16:07 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
keep dreaming marty

it could happen
Post #: 5895
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 8:37:51 PM   
drviking


Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline
Flores name can be rearranged to

loser F

So, I am out

_____________________________

"Only one thing left to do..."
Post #: 5896
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2023 1:30:21 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12975
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
.sd…

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 12/13/2023 1:34:08 AM >


_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 5897
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2023 1:31:28 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12975
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

Flores name can be rearranged to

loser F

So, I am out


And that username can be :

VDKING IR( life)

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 12/13/2023 1:33:18 AM >


_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 5898
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2023 9:10:04 AM   
Murph


Posts: 1935
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hot takes while connecting in Denver: I have no problem who they start at qb for any game going forward - including Dobbs. Dude played poorly yesterday but not as poorly as it seemed. He outperformed every O lineman and every pass catcher not named Jefferson.

Mattison continues to be the adequate running back we expected. I’m still puzzled by the hate he gets from fans.

It’s too early to judge Kevin O’Connell. I won’t make a judgement on him until he gets a quality qb of his choosing or until he completes five years.

If Flores says ‘make me head coach or I walk’ I’d have to really think it over and wouldn’t be afraid to say ok or sorry.

Lots of twitter folks asking if anyone misses Kirk cousins now. I guess yesterday’s game was kind of the Super Bowl for Kirk fans (they lose again btw). I don’t miss him. We continue to get the same results with him or without him. I don’t care if he gets yards or TDs more efficiently. I don’t cheer for stats. I cheer for the chance to reach the Super Bowl. If I were a Kirk fan I’d be careful about promising the team would be so much better with him when we get better results without him and he’s replaced with a pile of below-average nobodies.

I look forward to taking a chance on a rookie qb with the possibility of being a quality player on a cheap deal with skills for the modern game. I’ll like it even better if that player is perceived by fans and media as being an awesome Christian and excellent family man. I hope the new guy’s wife buys his clothes for him at Kohls. Why? Because I know MN fans and media eat that shit up and I want the new guy to feel appreciated and at home. Just don’t be a check down coward that just works here.



What are you trying to justify David? Your First, 3rd, 4th, and 5th sentences seem to somehow deflect that your philosphy of any QB coming in and scoring more than 20 points was wrong?

Most are at best 50% that Kirk should be back....

How about you just say you are wrong in what you thought.....it isn't easy getting a qb that can throw for 16 TDS in 6.75 games is it? There just aren't that many decent QBs; even as a backup.


I’m not, and never have, trying to lump our backups into the good pile. I am, and have been, lumping cousins into the not-great pile.

More hot takes: I’d like to sell you a car. I have four available for sale. All four of them get you to the same place which is not near where you want to go. One of them has nice paint. The nice paint one costs 30x what the other three do. Will that be cash or finance? Of course it will be finance. We’ll stick a bunch of the cost into a year in which you don’t even own it anymore.

Edit - P.S. Hang the 16 TDs in 6.75 games banner! Hang it next to the “AD got a whole bunch of yards” banner. All I wanted was a ‘clock the ball and beat the chargers” banner.


If the question is whether the team should bring back Cousins next year the answer should be "no". Is he better than the other QB's currently on the roster? Yes. But, David's point is a valid one. Cousins joined the team in 2018. Despite playing under multiple different offensive coordinators and completely different rosters over the years he's been unable to get the team to an NFC Championship game let alone a Super Bowl. Is he a "good" QB? Yes. But, history shows that being "good" is his ceiling. To expand on the car analogy, he doesn't have the next gear to carry a team to a Super Bowl win.

There are times when a sports franchise has to take a step backward before it can take a leap forward. The problem that I've seen with the Vikings is this desire to "compete" every year. If competing means challenging for the Super Bowl, then I'm all in. If it means just making the playoffs, then that isn't a big accomplishment given that a total of 14 teams or about 44% of the NFL gets into the playoffs. What bothered me about Kwesi's "competitive rebuild" is that it seems to be about "making the playoffs" which really isn't that big of a deal anymore. I prefer a GM that looks at the big picture from Day 1 with the understanding that every single draft pick, every trade, every free agency acquisition and coaching hire is done with one goal in mind...does it move the needle toward winning the Super Bowl? With that in mind, don't resign Cousins because history shows he can not bring this team to the Super Bowl. Cut Mullens after this season. He's a nobody that never was or will be. Bring in the very best QB's that you can get your hands on until you land the QB that has that higher gear that quarterbacks like Cousins simply will never have.


Great post Mark!

Pretty much sums up how I feel, especially the bolded.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".
Post #: 5899
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/13/2023 9:55:50 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hot takes while connecting in Denver: I have no problem who they start at qb for any game going forward - including Dobbs. Dude played poorly yesterday but not as poorly as it seemed. He outperformed every O lineman and every pass catcher not named Jefferson.

Mattison continues to be the adequate running back we expected. I’m still puzzled by the hate he gets from fans.

It’s too early to judge Kevin O’Connell. I won’t make a judgement on him until he gets a quality qb of his choosing or until he completes five years.

If Flores says ‘make me head coach or I walk’ I’d have to really think it over and wouldn’t be afraid to say ok or sorry.

Lots of twitter folks asking if anyone misses Kirk cousins now. I guess yesterday’s game was kind of the Super Bowl for Kirk fans (they lose again btw). I don’t miss him. We continue to get the same results with him or without him. I don’t care if he gets yards or TDs more efficiently. I don’t cheer for stats. I cheer for the chance to reach the Super Bowl. If I were a Kirk fan I’d be careful about promising the team would be so much better with him when we get better results without him and he’s replaced with a pile of below-average nobodies.

I look forward to taking a chance on a rookie qb with the possibility of being a quality player on a cheap deal with skills for the modern game. I’ll like it even better if that player is perceived by fans and media as being an awesome Christian and excellent family man. I hope the new guy’s wife buys his clothes for him at Kohls. Why? Because I know MN fans and media eat that shit up and I want the new guy to feel appreciated and at home. Just don’t be a check down coward that just works here.



What are you trying to justify David? Your First, 3rd, 4th, and 5th sentences seem to somehow deflect that your philosphy of any QB coming in and scoring more than 20 points was wrong?

Most are at best 50% that Kirk should be back....

How about you just say you are wrong in what you thought.....it isn't easy getting a qb that can throw for 16 TDS in 6.75 games is it? There just aren't that many decent QBs; even as a backup.


I’m not, and never have, trying to lump our backups into the good pile. I am, and have been, lumping cousins into the not-great pile.

More hot takes: I’d like to sell you a car. I have four available for sale. All four of them get you to the same place which is not near where you want to go. One of them has nice paint. The nice paint one costs 30x what the other three do. Will that be cash or finance? Of course it will be finance. We’ll stick a bunch of the cost into a year in which you don’t even own it anymore.

Edit - P.S. Hang the 16 TDs in 6.75 games banner! Hang it next to the “AD got a whole bunch of yards” banner. All I wanted was a ‘clock the ball and beat the chargers” banner.


If the question is whether the team should bring back Cousins next year the answer should be "no". Is he better than the other QB's currently on the roster? Yes. But, David's point is a valid one. Cousins joined the team in 2018. Despite playing under multiple different offensive coordinators and completely different rosters over the years he's been unable to get the team to an NFC Championship game let alone a Super Bowl. Is he a "good" QB? Yes. But, history shows that being "good" is his ceiling. To expand on the car analogy, he doesn't have the next gear to carry a team to a Super Bowl win.

There are times when a sports franchise has to take a step backward before it can take a leap forward. The problem that I've seen with the Vikings is this desire to "compete" every year. If competing means challenging for the Super Bowl, then I'm all in. If it means just making the playoffs, then that isn't a big accomplishment given that a total of 14 teams or about 44% of the NFL gets into the playoffs. What bothered me about Kwesi's "competitive rebuild" is that it seems to be about "making the playoffs" which really isn't that big of a deal anymore. I prefer a GM that looks at the big picture from Day 1 with the understanding that every single draft pick, every trade, every free agency acquisition and coaching hire is done with one goal in mind...does it move the needle toward winning the Super Bowl? With that in mind, don't resign Cousins because history shows he can not bring this team to the Super Bowl. Cut Mullens after this season. He's a nobody that never was or will be. Bring in the very best QB's that you can get your hands on until you land the QB that has that higher gear that quarterbacks like Cousins simply will never have.


Great post Mark!

Pretty much sums up how I feel, especially the bolded.

Are there GMs out there that don't do this? Do we have a GM that makes decisions that are for reasons other than getting better?

This place sometimes remind me of parents of hs kids out for sports. They know everything there is to know about winning a state championship from the bleachers

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 12/13/2023 10:06:16 AM >
Post #: 5900
Page:   <<   < prev  234 235 [236] 237 238   next >   >>
All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk Page: <<   < prev  234 235 [236] 237 238   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode