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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 3:42:33 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Hot takes while connecting in Denver: I have no problem who they start at qb for any game going forward - including Dobbs. Dude played poorly yesterday but not as poorly as it seemed. He outperformed every O lineman and every pass catcher not named Jefferson.

Mattison continues to be the adequate running back we expected. I’m still puzzled by the hate he gets from fans.

It’s too early to judge Kevin O’Connell. I won’t make a judgement on him until he gets a quality qb of his choosing or until he completes five years.

If Flores says ‘make me head coach or I walk’ I’d have to really think it over and wouldn’t be afraid to say ok or sorry.

Lots of twitter folks asking if anyone misses Kirk cousins now. I guess yesterday’s game was kind of the Super Bowl for Kirk fans (they lose again btw). I don’t miss him. We continue to get the same results with him or without him. I don’t care if he gets yards or TDs more efficiently. I don’t cheer for stats. I cheer for the chance to reach the Super Bowl. If I were a Kirk fan I’d be careful about promising the team would be so much better with him when we get better results without him and he’s replaced with a pile of below-average nobodies.

I look forward to taking a chance on a rookie qb with the possibility of being a quality player on a cheap deal with skills for the modern game. I’ll like it even better if that player is perceived by fans and media as being an awesome Christian and excellent family man. I hope the new guy’s wife buys his clothes for him at Kohls. Why? Because I know MN fans and media eat that shit up and I want the new guy to feel appreciated and at home. Just don’t be a check down coward that just works here.



What are you trying to justify David? Your First, 3rd, 4th, and 5th sentences seem to somehow deflect that your philosphy of any QB coming in and scoring more than 20 points was wrong?

Most are at best 50% that Kirk should be back....

How about you just say you are wrong in what you thought.....it isn't easy getting a qb that can throw for 16 TDS in 6.75 games is it? There just aren't that many decent QBs; even as a backup.


I’m not, and never have, trying to lump our backups into the good pile. I am, and have been, lumping cousins into the not-great pile.

More hot takes: I’d like to sell you a car. I have four available for sale. All four of them get you to the same place which is not near where you want to go. One of them has nice paint. The nice paint one costs 30x what the other three do. Will that be cash or finance? Of course it will be finance. We’ll stick a bunch of the cost into a year in which you don’t even own it anymore.

Edit - P.S. Hang the 16 TDs in 6.75 games banner! Hang it next to the “AD got a whole bunch of yards” banner. All I wanted was a ‘clock the ball and beat the chargers” banner.


You do know we beat Denver and Chicago with Kirk.

Just say you were wrong "I think any QB could come in and score more than our avg with Kirk".......I know it is tough to admit.


I said “all we need is to average 20 points per game to equal what we got from Kirk”. Do you know we’ve won a larger percentage of games with dogshit at qb than when he played? Hell - I’m still waiting for someone to say we’d be 13-0 if Kirk never got hurt.


You said a backup QB would be as effective as Kirk (if I remember correctly). Dobbs was great against NO in the 1st half; he wasn't against Denver, Chicago, or LV---Atl was a wash (horrible 1st/great 2nd).

No one would say we should be 13-0......the offense is better with Kirk and the defense is now amazing.

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Post #: 5851
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 3:59:37 PM   
David F.


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78-70-2 career qb goes 4-4 to start 2023.

“We would have won all the games if he wasn’t hurt “

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5852
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 4:19:03 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

All teams take hits, but this is pretty bad:

@vikesinsider
Follow
Notable injured Vikings:

Starting QB Kirk Cousins
Starting WR Justin Jefferson
Starting RT Brian O’Neill
Starting RG Ed Ingram
Starting LG Dalton Risner
Starting OLB Marcus Davenport
Starting LB Jordan Hicks
Starting DT Dean Lowry
Backup RB Cam Akers
Backup OL Oli Udoh

If we can get these guys back and Mullens plays well, we could surprise someone in 1st round.

A lot of ifs.


it would sure surprise the hell out of me....

I highly doubt we surprise anybody. Except in offensive futility.

We talked all summer about how we were going to have to outscore teams to win unless Flores could walk on water and he is. Mean while the QB whisperer and offensive genius is drowning at the bottom of the lake.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5853
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 4:28:56 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

KOC is a bum and should be shown the door and Flores made HC.

Any time is good.

Most, if not all of us, felt that way about Tomlin and we were right. I'm afraid the same thing is about to happen. Not that O'Connell deserves to get fired, he doesn't, but Flores looks like he could be a keeper. Highly doubt the Wilf's have the gonads.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5854
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 4:31:35 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76986
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

All teams take hits, but this is pretty bad:

@vikesinsider
Follow
Notable injured Vikings:

Starting QB Kirk Cousins
Starting WR Justin Jefferson
Starting RT Brian O’Neill
Starting RG Ed Ingram
Starting LG Dalton Risner
Starting OLB Marcus Davenport
Starting LB Jordan Hicks
Starting DT Dean Lowry
Backup RB Cam Akers
Backup OL Oli Udoh

If we can get these guys back and Mullens plays well, we could surprise someone in 1st round.

A lot of ifs.


Has he ever?

Even yesterday, his best play was a ball that was deflected by the defense...
Post #: 5855
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 4:31:41 PM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

78-70-2 career qb goes 4-4 to start 2023.

“We would have won all the games if he wasn’t hurt “


I might have said that - if i didn't I sure felt it.

Felt like you said any back-up could do what Kirk did on this team, too.

78-70-2, huh? YOU really go digging when you have to admit you were wrong, don't ya?

Hell, we'd be 13-0 if Kirk never got hurt!
Post #: 5856
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 5:23:42 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12975
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

78-70-2 career qb goes 4-4 to start 2023.

“We would have won all the games if he wasn’t hurt “

Exactly..

Last years, 11-0 wins in one score games, completely brainwashed the STANS..

Kirk cousins is THE DEFINITION of mediocrity and middle of the road journeyman QB.

His play off game record AMPLIFIES, his inability to win when it REALLY matters.

How do people ignore that, and drool over his stats that prove nothing?

Inconceivable!

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 12/11/2023 5:25:51 PM >


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I am WRATH, incarnate.
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Post #: 5857
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 5:42:17 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19084
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From: Alamogordo, NM
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So Dan you're safe from having to Don the purple undergarment?

< Message edited by Richard Neussendorfer -- 12/11/2023 5:45:55 PM >
Post #: 5858
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 5:42:55 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 22686
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Flores is an INCREDIBLE defensive coordinator.

But people have serious short term memory on his head coaching stint.
He was not a great head coach.
He was not good for Tua.

Best case scenario is Flores beef with the NFL and some of his bad press by Tua/former players keeps him with Vikes for another year and KOC improves.

I'm gonna push back on that a little bit. Flores won eight of his last nine games as the head coach in Miami. How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?

He was riddled with injuries during his tenure as the head coach and is largely responsible for the turnaround of the franchise.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 6:27:34 PM   
David F.


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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

78-70-2 career qb goes 4-4 to start 2023.

“We would have won all the games if he wasn’t hurt “


I might have said that - if i didn't I sure felt it.

Felt like you said any back-up could do what Kirk did on this team, too.

78-70-2, huh? YOU really go digging when you have to admit you were wrong, don't ya?

Hell, we'd be 13-0 if Kirk never got hurt!


20 points per game. The crap-ups are currently at 18.8. Let’s see where they’re at next week and beyond. Currently Kirk is JUST BARELY outperforming a pile of crap in terms of points and he’s losing in terms of win percentage. I feel just fine about everything I’ve said.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5860
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 7:02:35 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18231
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

78-70-2 career qb goes 4-4 to start 2023.

“We would have won all the games if he wasn’t hurt “


I might have said that - if i didn't I sure felt it.

Felt like you said any back-up could do what Kirk did on this team, too.

78-70-2, huh? YOU really go digging when you have to admit you were wrong, don't ya?

Hell, we'd be 13-0 if Kirk never got hurt!


20 points per game. The crap-ups are currently at 18.8. Let’s see where they’re at next week and beyond. Currently Kirk is JUST BARELY outperforming a pile of crap in terms of points and he’s losing in terms of win percentage. I feel just fine about everything I’ve said.


Of course you do but the impression you gave off was anybody could win with this team, we don't need Kirk. It's too damn bad he isn't here for us. We had as good a shot as anyone in the NFC - everybody is beatable

What'd the OC (what coach was it?) that referred to him as Kurt iin Washington? Nice environment under Zim, too, huh? Finally gets O'Connell, a partner, for a second year and wham! Think of all the months and hours those two put into putting together a good season for the Vikes, for us. A step here and it's gone.

Didn't Jeff A blow you over with his positivity: KOC is 17-0 when winning or at least pushing in turnover battle...yeah, he's the problem.

Damn!
Post #: 5861
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 7:06:40 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12975
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

So Dan you're safe from having to Don the purple undergarment?


In public, yes..

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 5862
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 7:40:55 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10834
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

78-70-2 career qb goes 4-4 to start 2023.

“We would have won all the games if he wasn’t hurt “


I might have said that - if i didn't I sure felt it.

Felt like you said any back-up could do what Kirk did on this team, too.

78-70-2, huh? YOU really go digging when you have to admit you were wrong, don't ya?

Hell, we'd be 13-0 if Kirk never got hurt!


20 points per game. The crap-ups are currently at 18.8. Let’s see where they’re at next week and beyond. Currently Kirk is JUST BARELY outperforming a pile of crap in terms of points and he’s losing in terms of win percentage. I feel just fine about everything I’ve said.


Of course you do but the impression you gave off was anybody could win with this team, we don't need Kirk. It's too damn bad he isn't here for us. We had as good a shot as anyone in the NFC - everybody is beatable

What'd the OC (what coach was it?) that referred to him as Kurt iin Washington? Nice environment under Zim, too, huh? Finally gets O'Connell, a partner, for a second year and wham! Think of all the months and hours those two put into putting together a good season for the Vikes, for us. A step here and it's gone.

Didn't Jeff A blow you over with his positivity: KOC is 17-0 when winning or at least pushing in turnover battle...yeah, he's the problem.

Damn!


Yeah I don’t understand the disconnection here - I said anyone could do it and quite literally- a group of nobodies are doing just that.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5863
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 9:58:29 PM   
beo

 

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Joined: 3/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Flores is an INCREDIBLE defensive coordinator.

But people have serious short term memory on his head coaching stint.
He was not a great head coach.
He was not good for Tua.

Best case scenario is Flores beef with the NFL and some of his bad press by Tua/former players keeps him with Vikes for another year and KOC improves.

I'm gonna push back on that a little bit. Flores won eight of his last nine games as the head coach in Miami. How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?

He was riddled with injuries during his tenure as the head coach and is largely responsible for the turnaround of the franchise.


Again... Flores is an INCREDIBLE coordinator.
But I don't know if he is an upgrade on KOC or not. maybe?

Same things you credit Flores with you can attribute to KOC.

"How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?"
KOC is what... 20-10.
How many guys get fired starting out with 2-1 win ratio.

"He was riddled with injuries"
KOC lost Kirk.

KOC/Flores both with zero playoff wins.

Could he be great?
Yep, possible.
But I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk.

It's an offensive league.
Ideal scenario is offensive genius HC and defensive guru DC.

IMO of course.
Post #: 5864
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2023 10:40:21 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 26594
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
Actually Vikings Stans.

Seen many QBs for the Vikes. Kirk is a top 3 arguably in our history whether you like it or not. He doesn’t have to be here next year for that to be a fact. JJ and Addison have been remarkable with Kirk as have Diggs and Thielen. Total Viking Stans.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/11/2023 10:46:18 PM >


_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 5865
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 1:42:04 AM   
JT2

 

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From: United States
Status: offline
Yeah, Cousins made Diggs. Never mind that Diggs had the two best seasons of his career when he left...playing outside, in the elements in a division where everybody plays outside.

For that matter, an aging Thielen, while paying for arguably a bottom five QB in the league, is having his best target to catch ratio of his career.

It's weird to me that people will stretch that hard to bolster their narrative.

Remember when you thought Spielman was a great GM? For that matter, remember when you loved two pick Toby Gerhart? You're wrong a lot.
Post #: 5866
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 5:29:49 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 26594
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Yeah, Cousins made Diggs. Never mind that Diggs had the two best seasons of his career when he left...playing outside, in the elements in a division where everybody plays outside.

For that matter, an aging Thielen, while paying for arguably a bottom five QB in the league, is having his best target to catch ratio of his career.

It's weird to me that people will stretch that hard to bolster their narrative.

Remember when you thought Spielman was a great GM? For that matter, remember when you loved two pick Toby Gerhart? You're wrong a lot.

Who said Cousins made any one? We have had 5+ years of a great passing offense. Thielen had JJ as a number 1 and still put up numbers. You think Young could have two 1000 yard receivers? Just a top ten NFL qb that some posters struggle with.

TJ Addison and JJ this year have looked good with Kirk. Even Powell.

Supporting Spielman makes me Vikings Stans wouldn’t it?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/12/2023 5:38:56 AM >


_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 5867
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 5:36:37 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 26594
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
Shouldn’t KOC and Kwesi get some credit for hiring Flores this year? Weird how posters turn on both.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 5868
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 7:07:57 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19084
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
The Viking offense put up 12 points against the Bears the first time around unless we're gonna count Hicks return as offensive points. I don't understand the assumption that we automatically win the 2nd Bears game or the Denver game with him. Cousins did play well against the Niners but he's definitely struggled against Chicago over the years. I guess it just doesn't seem like a given to me.
Post #: 5869
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 7:24:07 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5711
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Shouldn’t KOC and Kwesi get some credit for hiring Flores this year? Weird how posters turn on both.

Tremendous hire. As good as the Donatell hire was bad.

Lets hope he sticks for more than a year to carry KAM and KOC on his back a little farther.
Post #: 5870
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 7:45:42 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22686
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Actually Vikings Stans.

Seen many QBs for the Vikes. Kirk is a top 3 arguably in our history whether you like it or not. He doesn’t have to be here next year for that to be a fact. JJ and Addison have been remarkable with Kirk as have Diggs and Thielen. Total Viking Stans.


1) Randall Cunningham (1 year)
2) Fran
3) Johnson


After those three, you have a collection of guys. Bob Lee, Kirk Cousins, Culpepper, Kramer, Jeff George, Wade Wilson, Gannon, Cuozzo, Favre....

It's a silly argument, because football in the 70's and 80's was nothing like football today. The numbers are practically irrelevant. Winners are winners. Kirk Cousins is not a winner.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/12/2023 7:57:07 AM >


_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5871
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 8:42:55 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22686
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Shouldn’t KOC and Kwesi get some credit for hiring Flores this year? Weird how posters turn on both.

Liked the hire of Flores the day it happened. He was ripped off in Miami.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5872
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 8:45:00 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22686
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Flores is an INCREDIBLE defensive coordinator.

But people have serious short term memory on his head coaching stint.
He was not a great head coach.
He was not good for Tua.

Best case scenario is Flores beef with the NFL and some of his bad press by Tua/former players keeps him with Vikes for another year and KOC improves.

I'm gonna push back on that a little bit. Flores won eight of his last nine games as the head coach in Miami. How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?

He was riddled with injuries during his tenure as the head coach and is largely responsible for the turnaround of the franchise.


Again... Flores is an INCREDIBLE coordinator.
But I don't know if he is an upgrade on KOC or not. maybe?

Same things you credit Flores with you can attribute to KOC.

"How many people get fired after finishing 8-1?"
KOC is what... 20-10.
How many guys get fired starting out with 2-1 win ratio.

"He was riddled with injuries"
KOC lost Kirk.

KOC/Flores both with zero playoff wins.

Could he be great?
Yep, possible.
But I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk.

It's an offensive league.
Ideal scenario is offensive genius HC and defensive guru DC.

IMO of course.

I never said anything about KOC. You said Flores was not a great coach. I responded.

The best thing for Tua was landing #10. We saw that on display last night. Tyreek Hill is the most valuable player on that team.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/12/2023 8:46:28 AM >


_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5873
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 9:20:04 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 26594
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Actually Vikings Stans.

Seen many QBs for the Vikes. Kirk is a top 3 arguably in our history whether you like it or not. He doesn’t have to be here next year for that to be a fact. JJ and Addison have been remarkable with Kirk as have Diggs and Thielen. Total Viking Stans.


1) Randall Cunningham (1 year)
2) Fran
3) Johnson


After those three, you have a collection of guys. Bob Lee, Kirk Cousins, Culpepper, Kramer, Jeff George, Wade Wilson, Gannon, Cuozzo, Favre....

It's a silly argument, because football in the 70's and 80's was nothing like football today. The numbers are practically irrelevant. Winners are winners. Kirk Cousins is not a winner.


Actually Johnson wasn't with the Vikes that long....

1) Fran
2) Tommy
3) Kirk
4/5 Johnson/Dante

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 5874
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/12/2023 10:04:20 AM   
Mark C. Johnson

 

Posts: 1153
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I asked the question before the bye but it begs asking again. Did we make a mistake trading Cleveland? Our OLine play has been downright bad again since he left. Could be injuries, we overvalued Risner, we undervalued Cleveland or just coincidence but man. They've looked terribly for weeks now.


It was a weird trade - sacrificing needed depth for a late pick.


I agree. Having depth along the offensive and defensive lines is critical. There are five offensive lineman so the odds of one of the five getting hurt at any one time is fairly high. I didn't understand why a team that has struggled to put together an offensive line for years would deplete its depth at the position.
Post #: 5875
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