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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/3/2024 9:36:20 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Yes. I think a 2025 1st rounder and O'Neill gets you up there.

DONE and run to the podium!

It gets you there in a fantasy world.

This scenario was to get to the 4th or 5th pick. From 8th to 10th spot.

Not #1 pick

Post #: 6651

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/3/2024 10:33:17 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

What does a rookie QB have to do with contending next year? Nobody suggested that.

Rookie contract? The treatment of the Uygurs in Mongolia has more to do with our QB situation.

First find a QB. Yesterday. End of story.

Not tomorrow for God sakes.

You want to waste time and resources setting the table for next year's chicken salad. What if Queasy goes vegetarian this year?

Ok, you don't want to build a roster capable of winning a SB, you just want a QB now, no matter who they are or what they are capable of. Enjoy the short term sugar high.

The team needs a bigger tear down, if you don't see that, you don't deserve the job Todd just gave you.

By the way Todd, I'd like my severance package now.

So the QBs this year are a total mystery, but so much more is already known about the QBs for next year that are key to your plan. Got it.

Idiotic interpretation.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 6652

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/3/2024 10:39:01 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

I believe that you are over thinking this. IF a QB that the team likes is available to them this year, then draft him. Who cares about 1 year IF he's a true difference maker that would be around for 10 to 15 years. The biggest and most important hole on the team is QB. The Vikings have spent decades ignoring that fact or at best have done a very poor job at filling that QB hole.

How many rookie QB's get wrecked because they have to play on a shitty team? I'd much rather fix the roster, then insert a #1 pick QB, and go from there. If you want to take the 4th best QB and put him on a shit team and hope we win, good ****ing luck to you.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 6653

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 12:08:07 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

I believe that you are over thinking this. IF a QB that the team likes is available to them this year, then draft him. Who cares about 1 year IF he's a true difference maker that would be around for 10 to 15 years. The biggest and most important hole on the team is QB. The Vikings have spent decades ignoring that fact or at best have done a very poor job at filling that QB hole.

How many rookie QB's get wrecked because they have to play on a shitty team? I'd much rather fix the roster, then insert a #1 pick QB, and go from there. If you want to take the 4th best QB and put him on a shit team and hope we win, good ****ing luck to you.

4th QB taken doesn’t mean 4th best QB.

In fact I’d guess more often than not the best QB from a draft isn’t the 1st one taken.

Post #: 6654

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 7:32:53 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

I believe that you are over thinking this. IF a QB that the team likes is available to them this year, then draft him. Who cares about 1 year IF he's a true difference maker that would be around for 10 to 15 years. The biggest and most important hole on the team is QB. The Vikings have spent decades ignoring that fact or at best have done a very poor job at filling that QB hole.

How many rookie QB's get wrecked because they have to play on a shitty team? I'd much rather fix the roster, then insert a #1 pick QB, and go from there. If you want to take the 4th best QB and put him on a shit team and hope we win, good ****ing luck to you.

4th QB taken doesn’t mean 4th best QB.

In fact I’d guess more often than not the best QB from a draft isn’t the 1st one taken.

Right, because there might be 10 QBs taken in a draft, odds are that the best one of the other 9 is better than the 1st one taken. But more often than not the 1st QB taken from a draft is better than the 4th QB taken, which is the point he's trying to make.

Post #: 6655

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 8:37:19 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Yes. I think a 2025 1st rounder and O'Neill gets you up there.

DONE and run to the podium!

It gets you there in a fantasy world.

This scenario was to get to the 4th or 5th pick. From 8th to 10th spot.

Not #1 pick

Ah got it. If they are targeting Penix, O'Neill would be the blind-side protector.

Post #: 6656

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 8:40:12 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

What does a rookie QB have to do with contending next year? Nobody suggested that.

Rookie contract? The treatment of the Uygurs in Mongolia has more to do with our QB situation.

First find a QB. Yesterday. End of story.

Not tomorrow for God sakes.

You want to waste time and resources setting the table for next year's chicken salad. What if Queasy goes vegetarian this year?

Ok, you don't want to build a roster capable of winning a SB, you just want a QB now, no matter who they are or what they are capable of. Enjoy the short term sugar high.

The team needs a bigger tear down, if you don't see that, you don't deserve the job Todd just gave you.

By the way Todd, I'd like my severance package now.

So the QBs this year are a total mystery, but so much more is already known about the QBs for next year that are key to your plan. Got it.

Idiotic interpretation.

Just following your hyperbolic theme.

Post #: 6657

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 8:47:23 AM

marty

Posts: 12889
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

IF they got Penix, might they move Darrisaw to RT, O'Neill to LT ?

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 6658

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 8:48:42 AM

marty

Posts: 12889
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

I think the Carolina trade was a poor man's Herschel Walker trade.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 6659

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 8:53:04 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

I believe that you are over thinking this. IF a QB that the team likes is available to them this year, then draft him. Who cares about 1 year IF he's a true difference maker that would be around for 10 to 15 years. The biggest and most important hole on the team is QB. The Vikings have spent decades ignoring that fact or at best have done a very poor job at filling that QB hole.

How many rookie QB's get wrecked because they have to play on a shitty team? I'd much rather fix the roster, then insert a #1 pick QB, and go from there. If you want to take the 4th best QB and put him on a shit team and hope we win, good ****ing luck to you.

Let's sequence the elements of your plan:

- Tank, in large part by trading your best players for draft picks (basically bottoming out) in order to get the top pick.
- Fix the rest of the team that just had the worst record in football so as to not "wreck" the yet to be drafted QB.
- Draft said QB.
- Immediately play this QB in the miraculously rebuilt team so as to not waste a year of his rookie contract.

If that is an 'idiotic interpretation' of your two-year plan, please correct the idiotic parts.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/4/2024 9:24:53 AM >

Post #: 6660

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 8:54:21 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Dobbs was easily our best quarterback over the final eight weeks of the season (sadly, BTW). He gave us the best chance of winning three weeks ago when he was benched. He gives us the best chance of winning this weekend.

All of that is on Kevin O'Connell. Our head coach has run out of pixie dust.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 1/4/2024 9:08:47 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 6661

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:08:36 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28105
Status: offline

I get the notion of building a team then getting a QB who you project to be good, but it takes a few years to get there. And every acquisition will not pan out. Before someone points to the best team draft ever, the 1974 Steelers with four Hall of Fame players, note that they went 11-3, 10-4, 10-4 in the three years prior to that draft!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/4/2024 9:19:16 AM >

Post #: 6662

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:10:29 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38935
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Dobbs was easily our best quarterback over the final eight weeks of the season (sadly, BTW). He gave us the best chance of winning three weeks ago when he was benched. He gives us the best chance of winning this weekend.

All of that is on Kevin O'Connell.

What it tells me is that our backup QB situation is God Awful. If Dobbs was your best, and he was terrible...

Mullins was probably the best if he'd just stop throwing the ball to the other team

Of couse one of the reasons Dobbs was benched was he was turning the ball over too much and couldn't run the offense.

Mullins could run the offense but you can count on him turning the ball over multiple times a game.

Hall is just too raw. Deers in headlight say Hall is clueless.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa

Post #: 6663

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:14:03 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38935
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I get the philosophy of building a team then getting a QB who you project, but it takes a few years to get there. And every acquisition will not pan out. Before someone points to the best team draft ever, the 1974 Steelers with four Hall of Fame players, note that they went 11-3, 10-4, 10-4 in the three years prior to that draft!

To trade your best players for draft picks (basically bottoming out), forego drafting a QB you like now for a crap shoot next year, somehow 'fixing' the rest of the team, drafting a QB next year, then immediately playing him in the quickly rebuilt team so as to not waste a year... well, that's the stuff found exclusively in the realm of dreams.

and in general it's the program of teams that tend to have longterm losing and failure.

You draft the best guy NOW.

I've said it for years. QB is the most important position in sports. You draft one every year. Through sheer volume you will have a far greater chance of hitting on one. If you hit on more than one you have a fallback and trade value. It's such an important position that burning a draft pick on one every year is acceptable imho.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa

Post #: 6664

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:20:23 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44849
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Technically Dobbs was 2-2 as a starter. He entered in the 2nd quarter against Atlanta. In the last win that Dobbs started, Mullens came in and got us the only 3 points of the game.

Dobbs first 5 quarters - 55 points / 0 int
Dobbs last 13 quarters - 37 points / 5 int

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 6665

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:39:14 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

The one "good" thing about all of this is that the Cousins and Hunter situations will be done and dusted (one way or another) before the draft so we will have clarity on what they're thinking. My best guesses:

The ink Cousins to another 2-3 year deal and take a defensive stud at 10-ish (rush end or CB)
The don't and take best QB available at 10-ish or they move up to get that guy after they work out a deal with Hunter

I can't see both guys coming back. You could make the case that it could happen if Cousins signs a team friendly deal but we all know that aint happening.

Post #: 6666

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:55:07 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Dobbs was easily our best quarterback over the final eight weeks of the season (sadly, BTW). He gave us the best chance of winning three weeks ago when he was benched. He gives us the best chance of winning this weekend.

All of that is on Kevin O'Connell. Our head coach has run out of pixie dust.

You are looking at it all wrong....look at what the Vikes have done since TJ and Murphy/Wonnum got hurt. We haven't moved the ball since TJ was hurt 3rd quarter of Detroit game and teams have finally figured out the defencies of our defense w/o Murphy/Wonnum.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 6667

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:57:24 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Dobbs was easily our best quarterback over the final eight weeks of the season (sadly, BTW). He gave us the best chance of winning three weeks ago when he was benched. He gives us the best chance of winning this weekend.

All of that is on Kevin O'Connell. Our head coach has run out of pixie dust.

You are looking at it all wrong....look at what the Vikes have done since TJ and Murphy/Wonnum got hurt. We haven't moved the ball since TJ was hurt 3rd quarter of Detroit game and teams have finally figured out the defencies of our defense w/o Murphy/Wonnum.

There is some truth to that

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 6668

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:58:31 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26953
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Who thinks we are only a rookie QB from being a SB contender next year?

You are all missing the larger point of my 2 year plan. We have many holes. Drafting your favorite QB choice in the 8-12 range this year doesn't do him a bit of good and wastes a year of his rookie scale contract.

I will agree that if the scouts say next year there are no QB's as good as this year's option, go for it, but it's still a bigger rebuild than that.

I believe that you are over thinking this. IF a QB that the team likes is available to them this year, then draft him. Who cares about 1 year IF he's a true difference maker that would be around for 10 to 15 years. The biggest and most important hole on the team is QB. The Vikings have spent decades ignoring that fact or at best have done a very poor job at filling that QB hole.

How many rookie QB's get wrecked because they have to play on a shitty team? I'd much rather fix the roster, then insert a #1 pick QB, and go from there. If you want to take the 4th best QB and put him on a shit team and hope we win, good ****ing luck to you.

Our Offense side isn't shitty though until Kirk, JJ, Addison, TJ were injured---and we have 0 run game. The defense really wasn't until the Murphy/Wonnum injuries showed how thin it is.

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 6669

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 9:59:17 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

BTW, I have never seen a quarterback more careless with the ball than Mullens. Dobbs was light years better. At least two of Dobbs' interceptions were off deflections.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 6670

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 10:02:41 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Technically Dobbs was 2-2 as a starter. He entered in the 2nd quarter against Atlanta. In the last win that Dobbs started, Mullens came in and got us the only 3 points of the game.

Dobbs first 5 quarters - 55 points / 0 int
Dobbs last 13 quarters - 37 points / 5 int

Two of Dobbs' interceptions were off deflections.

In other words, Dobbs was responsible for about three turnovers in 18 quarters of play. I'll take that any day over what we saw the past three weeks.
Mullens was an absolute disaster. Hall had no business in an NFL game.

And lets not forget, Dobbs had JJ for about 15 minutes. You can't overlook that. He was literally the only guy that could make a play outside of Addison or Hockenson. Teams did a quick study and found out they needed to contain him to the pocket.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 1/4/2024 10:07:13 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 6671

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 10:08:26 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

How is that Josh Dobbs decision looking right about now?

Vikings starters in 2023.

Dobbs, 3-2 (had JJ for about 15 minutes total)
Cousins, 4-4
Others, 0-3

You guys were so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Technically Dobbs was 2-2 as a starter. He entered in the 2nd quarter against Atlanta. In the last win that Dobbs started, Mullens came in and got us the only 3 points of the game.

Dobbs first 5 quarters - 55 points / 0 int
Dobbs last 13 quarters - 37 points / 5 int

Dobbs first 5 quarters - KOC letting Dobbs play his game
Dobbs last 13 quarters - KOC trying to turn Dobbs into Cousins

Post #: 6672

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 10:09:48 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

And lets not forget, Dobbs had JJ for about 15 minutes. You can't overlook that. He was literally the only guy that could make a play outside of Addison or Hockenson. Teams did a quick study and found out they needed to contain him to the pocket.

Unfortunately it was Dobbs hanging JJ out to dry that caused the injury...

Post #: 6673

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 10:14:17 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

And lets not forget, Dobbs had JJ for about 15 minutes. You can't overlook that. He was literally the only guy that could make a play outside of Addison or Hockenson. Teams did a quick study and found out they needed to contain him to the pocket.

Unfortunately it was Dobbs hanging JJ out to dry that caused the injury...

That's bullshit, and nothing more than a fan being a fan. How do you know JJ wasn't late to the spot? He may have been expected to be on a spot and ended up hanging himself out to dry because he was late to the spot. It was a timing pattern. Any crossing patterns will come with some risk. Brady hung his guys out to dry every game. He was the master of the crossing pattern. His guys played injured, continuously. JJ shut it down because he's a soft diva, IMO.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 1/4/2024 10:17:19 AM >

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Post #: 6674

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/4/2024 10:27:37 AM

Mark C. Johnson

Posts: 1186
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Going with Mullens.

You got this Mullens…go deep!

I want to see 12 turnovers.

If we're going to flame out, flame out BIG.

Of all of the available QB's in the league, Mullens is the guy that Kwesi and KOC handpicked as the primary backup to Cousins. I get it that he's a backup but is he really the best that they could find? The odds of your starting QB playing all 17 games is pretty low so having a solid backup seems like something that should be a high priority for an NFL team.

Post #: 6675