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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 11:58:39 AM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Right now it appears that the Lions, Tigers and Bears are all ascending while the Vikings are descending, but that can change in a hurry.

I think the key to the Lions winning the division was their signing Montgomery. Had the Vikings let Matteson go, and instead signed Montgomery, I think it may have a domino effect, Kirk stays healthy all year and the Vikings win the division.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7076
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:02:33 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Aaron Jones is a key to the Packers, if he gets hurt, or leaves in free agency, things fall apart for them. I think it's quite possible if he didn't play yesterday, the Cowboys win that game.

This could just be the Lions year, and they might not win the division for the next 10 years. They lose their OC, Hutchinson gets hurt, and they fall below .500 next year.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7077
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:07:48 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

The astute will get Ricky was inquiring how Bill Jandro is doing. Re weather.

Exactly! Bill probably lives less than 5 miles from me as a crow flies across the Mississippi but over 40 miles by car.

- and we got hammered pretty good with a couple storms

All good over here Ricky other than my snow plow equipment breaking down. Hope all is well on ypur end.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 7078
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:17:25 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45021
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

It sucks seeing how GB and Detroit have so many 1st and 2nd year guys playing so well.

Right now Kwesi is looking like the distant 4th best GM in the Division. He better improve fast.

Queasy likes the 5th best GM in a 4 team division.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 7079
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:19:38 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

It sucks seeing how GB and Detroit have so many 1st and 2nd year guys playing so well.

Right now Kwesi is looking like the distant 4th best GM in the Division. He better improve fast.


And with the #1 and #9 picks, Chi is looking to reap more rewards from their sell-off and trades. Their 2nd round pick was used for Montez Sweat.
Post #: 7080
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:20:34 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

My $0.02:

Don't enjoy seeing GB win, but I did like seeing DAL get pounded!!

DAL seemed way to lax on defense. Love throwing while falling back to guys wide open! Love played well, but I think it was much more that DAL shit the bed.

Dak has a $60M cap number?! Ouch.

The Lions should have lost that game. Their pass defense is trash. Officiating was terrible and a big missed PI on LAR last 3rd down. Then McVay made some bad choices....

I don't buy the Penix hype.

I don't want KFC for another year.

Stroud has played outstanding.

I thought the no call on Stafford getting pounded after he got rid of the ball by two people was bad. Where's the consistency?

You could make a claim that there was three late hits on that one play. Just awful. The two jersey grabs on receivers?

And the NFL wonders why some fans think the game is rigged.

After the first no-call for PI to open the second half, I texted my buddy and said the Rams are about to get hosed. Could see it coming a mile away.


Bingo! The look on Stafford's face.....his eyes rolled back in his head!

NFL officiating is trash - I have been bitching about it for a while. It sadly is a big part of the reason why I am so less invested in the product these days

_____________________________

<this space for rent>
Post #: 7081
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:21:30 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I'll tell you this right now. If San Francisco gets Detroit in the NFC title game they are going to be them by 30.


Agreed 100%.

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<this space for rent>
Post #: 7082
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:28:13 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		OverTheCap cycled to 2024. Here are the top Vikings cap hits. Sad state of affairs.


Kirk Cousins
$28,500,000

Brian O'Neill
$23,019,111

Justin Jefferson
$19,743,000

Harrison Smith
$19,215,882

Danielle Hunter
$14,906,667

T.J. Hockenson
$14,100,000

Byron Murphy
$10,250,000

Harrison Phillips
$8,833,334

Marcus Davenport
$6,800,000

Josh Oliver
$6,174,000

Garrett Bradbury
$5,814,000

Dean Lowry
$4,600,000

Alexander Mattison
$4,600,000

Christian Darrisaw
$4,246,501

C.J. Ham
$3,266,666

Lewis Cine
$3,134,770
Post #: 7083
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 12:44:17 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty


I think the key to the Lions winning the division was their signing Montgomery. Had the Vikings let Matteson go, and instead signed Montgomery...


Isn't that the problem though?

Every GM looks great if you remove all their bad decisions and pretend they made better ones.

If the Vikings draft Hamilton instead of trading down for Cine we look a lot better too, right?

But those are both decisions that Kwesi did NOT make.
Post #: 7084
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 1:07:48 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		Immediate cuts and cap savings:
Smith, 11.3
Bradbury, 2.5
Lowry, 2.2
Ham, 1.7
Total savings 17.7 excluding cost to replace.

In the discussion to cut:
Murphy, 4.6
Oliver and Mattison are basically a wash.

Scrubs who would have a cap hit:
Cine, 3.6 if cut pre-June 1 and 2.3 if cut post-June 1.
Post #: 7085
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 1:14:16 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		Free agents who were starters:
Cousins
Hunter
Davenport (sort of)
Hicks
Risner
Joseph
Akers
Bullard
Wonnum
Osborn
Tonga

Others:
Powell
Udoh
Brandel
Quessenberry
Mundt
Post #: 7086
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 1:33:16 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		Defensive holdovers:
DL: Phillips, Lowry (IR), Roy, Day, TJ Smith
LB: Pace, Asamoah, Kwenkeu (IR), Vigil
Edge: Jones, Carter
CB: Murphy, Blackmon, Booth, Evans
S: Smith, Bynum, Metellus, Cine, Ward, Thompson


OL holdovers:
Darrisaw, O'Neill, Ingram, Bradbury (no depth holdovers noted)

WR:
Jefferson, Addison, Nailor, Jackson, Knowles

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/15/2024 1:49:48 PM >
Post #: 7087
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 1:48:00 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		But two of their three best players, quarterback Kirk Cousins and pass-rusher Danielle Hunter, are pending free agents with a clear path to market after the Vikings negotiated away their right to use the franchise tag on either. The third, receiver Justin Jefferson , did not accept an offer to extend his contract last summer and would play in 2024 under his fifth-year option if no agreement can be reached.

Adofo-Mensah has drafted one impact player -- receiver Jordan Addison -- among 16 picks over two years, and his 2024 position at No. 11 probably isn't high enough to select a top-tier successor to Cousins.

The Vikings drafted five defensive players among the top 165 picks in 2022, and one, fourth-round cornerback Akayleb Evans , has seen notable playing time outside of special teams. First-round safety Lewis Cine was inactive for 11 games, and second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr. spent the season buried on the depth chart.

No matter how you look at it, however, the Vikings have added only two defensive rookies in the past two seasons -- cornerback Mekhi Blackmon and linebacker Ivan Pace Jr. -- whom they trusted enough to use with any frequency. With the potential of losing Hunter and with fellow outside linebacker D.J. Wonnum also a pending free agent, the Vikings' "big offseason" will be as much about finding defensive reinforcements as deciding the path at quarterback.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39301551/vikings-kirk-cousins-dilemma-illustrates-complexity-offseason
Post #: 7088
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 2:12:30 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline 		First-round safety Lewis Cine was inactive for 11 games, and second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr. spent the season buried on the depth chart. Adofo-Mensah said the "path is not always linear" for player development and added that both players "have shown us nothing but reason to believe they are going to keep on their upward path."

What an insult to the fans. He should be fired on the spot. Of course the Waldo's will gravitate to that line in defense of the Word Salad GM. And the punter... don't forget he signed the punter!

It's Spielman's guys holding this sinking ship together, although stupid spending by both of them have hurt the cap situation.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/15/2024 2:18:17 PM >
Post #: 7089
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 2:52:57 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline 		Double bingo!

Kwesi gets an F- from me. I would fire him now!

_____________________________

<this space for rent>
Post #: 7090
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 3:24:03 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		Adofo-Mensah has drafted one impact player -- receiver Jordan Addison


To make it worse. That is well known to be a KOC pick that KAM almost didn't make. He had to be talked in to it at the moment
Post #: 7091
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 4:18:24 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

First-round safety Lewis Cine was inactive for 11 games, and second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr. spent the season buried on the depth chart. Adofo-Mensah said the "path is not always linear" for player development and added that both players "have shown us nothing but reason to believe they are going to keep on their upward path."

What an insult to the fans. He should be fired on the spot. Of course the Waldo's will gravitate to that line in defense of the Word Salad GM. And the punter... don't forget he signed the punter!

It's Spielman's guys holding this sinking ship together, although stupid spending by both of them have hurt the cap situation.

Ironic that we fired Spielman but still ride along year 3 eating from his jar of pickles. (ok that sounded pithy in my head…)

Kwesi and Kevin need a transformative offseason … full of dramatic changes. Not sure if they have it in them but I really believe they’re in jeopardy of going out with a whimper after the 2024 season on essentially the roster that Spielman built.
Post #: 7092
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 5:01:28 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

First-round safety Lewis Cine was inactive for 11 games, and second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr. spent the season buried on the depth chart. Adofo-Mensah said the "path is not always linear" for player development and added that both players "have shown us nothing but reason to believe they are going to keep on their upward path."

What an insult to the fans. He should be fired on the spot. Of course the Waldo's will gravitate to that line in defense of the Word Salad GM. And the punter... don't forget he signed the punter!

It's Spielman's guys holding this sinking ship together, although stupid spending by both of them have hurt the cap situation.

Excellent post Bill! Kwesi has been absolute dog crap so far. We're going to see it in full next season. Lewis Cine! I trashed the pick when we made it and of course he didn't prove me wrong.
Post #: 7093
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 5:38:30 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

First-round safety Lewis Cine was inactive for 11 games, and second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr. spent the season buried on the depth chart. Adofo-Mensah said the "path is not always linear" for player development and added that both players "have shown us nothing but reason to believe they are going to keep on their upward path."

What an insult to the fans. He should be fired on the spot. Of course the Waldo's will gravitate to that line in defense of the Word Salad GM. And the punter... don't forget he signed the punter!

It's Spielman's guys holding this sinking ship together, although stupid spending by both of them have hurt the cap situation.

Ironic that we fired Spielman but still ride along year 3 eating from his jar of pickles. (ok that sounded pithy in my head…)

Kwesi and Kevin need a transformative offseason … full of dramatic changes. Not sure if they have it in them but I really believe they’re in jeopardy of going out with a whimper after the 2024 season on essentially the roster that Spielman built.

We basically need to bring in Penix or Daniels to create any excitement for fans to buy tickets(which the Wilfs like).

Signing Cousins will make a bare cupboard barer.
Post #: 7094
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 7:22:57 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		I agree with what you're saying David, I am only saying it's a small difference between winning the division, and finishing where the Vikings finished.

Had the Vikings signed Montgomery, and the Lions someone like Mattison, I think the domino effect would have led to Kirk staying healthy and the Vikings winning the division.

So just one little change and the Vikings win the division. A few more positive changes, and the Vikings win the NFC.

To me, one of those positive changes is drafting a young, stud QB.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7095
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 7:29:39 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I agree with what you're saying David, I am only saying it's a small difference between winning the division, and finishing where the Vikings finished.

Had the Vikings signed Montgomery, and the Lions someone like Mattison, I think the domino effect would have led to Kirk staying healthy and the Vikings winning the division.

So just one little change and the Vikings win the division. A few more positive changes, and the Vikings win the NFC.

To me, one of those positive changes is drafting a young, stud QB.


I get that. But the problem is you need a GM that makes those right decisions. So far, our guy has not.

Basically you're talking about the difference between a good GM and a bad GM.
Post #: 7096
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 7:38:56 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Yes, but I think Kwesi DID make the right decision with Addison.

KOC helped Kwesi make the right decision. So maybe Kwesi just needs a little more collaboration, needs to trust his people more, or needs some new people, and a little luck, and things will go our way.

< Message edited by marty -- 1/15/2024 7:43:11 PM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7097
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 7:42:27 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		It's possible that had the Vikings gotten the trade up for Richardson last year, that he showed flashes, stayed healthy with Minnesota, and put them in a position where they didn't need to draft a QB this next draft.

I am saying things can turn on a dime.

Kwesi would have been viewed as a good GM had he hit on Richardson. Maybe they luck out even more, and trade up this year, for a QB that ends up being better than Richardson, whether it be Daniels, Williams or Maye.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7098
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 9:37:44 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

It's possible that had the Vikings gotten the trade up for Richardson last year, that he showed flashes, stayed healthy with Minnesota, and put them in a position where they didn't need to draft a QB this next draft.

I am saying things can turn on a dime.

Kwesi would have been viewed as a good GM had he hit on Richardson. Maybe they luck out even more, and trade up this year, for a QB that ends up being better than Richardson, whether it be Daniels, Williams or Maye.


Yes, things can .... Sports have proved that over and over through the years.
Post #: 7099
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2024 10:27:20 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		And down goes Philly!

GB, SF, Det, TB

Hate Cousins or hate him even more, it would of been nice to see this play out. What a hs wasted year.
Post #: 7100
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