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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 1:24:54 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Cut cheap Dean Lowry. Save $2 million. Replace him with Bizarro World cheap Dean Lowry at $3 million (pathetic salary for a starter). Net result: $1 million cap hit.

But we filled another position! He'll be better, you just watch! He is 87 days younger too so that's an automatic win.

Brilliant, dare I say WOW, how did they do that?!
Post #: 8076
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 1:26:35 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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The NFL announced today that the 2024 salary cap will be $255.4 million per club,

12% more cap for us, we're rich! We win!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/23/2024 1:27:46 PM >
Post #: 8077
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 1:57:12 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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From your last three posts ...

... we can get to $60 million in cap easy! Then spend... spend... spend...

... But we filled another position! He'll be better, you just watch!

... more cap for us, we're rich! We win!


The snark is fun but also tragic in its increased proficiency.

Its starting to remind me of The Last of Us people being taken over by a fungi.

Don't stare into the fantasy cap abyss too long!
Post #: 8078
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 2:28:44 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

From your last three posts ...

... we can get to $60 million in cap easy! Then spend... spend... spend...

... But we filled another position! He'll be better, you just watch!

... more cap for us, we're rich! We win!


The snark is fun but also tragic in its increased proficiency.

Its starting to remind me of The Last of Us people being taken over by a fungi.

Don't stare into the fantasy cap abyss too long!



It's a simple matter of basically echoing their line of 'reasoning' and actual words.


Anyway, since year-to-year cap increases get baked into contracts, a potential 38% of the players on the 53-man roster (the projected 20 new contracts) are officially 12+% more expensive. Bad year to have a lot of new contracts. Fortunately, it's all covered/a wash. Just ignore those teams who will spend less on contracts and can roll over more cap. Say Detroit if they make push to get their roster over the top.

Phil and Co. fail to understand it's not about what the Vikings do, but how they do relative to other teams.

Nonetheless, Break-The-Bank Jefferson has to be a happy man with news of the cap. $33 million is officially now $37 million. Darrisaw is doing the math for this year and next. He'll be at least 20% more expensive than in 2023, thanks the the delay Kwesi. Let's Get Paid is simply dreaming of cornering the market of the remaining $10,000 denomination bills.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/23/2024 2:42:59 PM >
Post #: 8079
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 2:53:29 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Whoops, the increase is 13%. Actually 13.6%.

Jefferson's $33 is $37.5.

All covered, nothing to see here.
Post #: 8080
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 2:55:47 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

From your last three posts ...

... we can get to $60 million in cap easy! Then spend... spend... spend...

... But we filled another position! He'll be better, you just watch!

... more cap for us, we're rich! We win!


The snark is fun but also tragic in its increased proficiency.

Its starting to remind me of The Last of Us people being taken over by a fungi.

Don't stare into the fantasy cap abyss too long!



It's a simple matter of basically echoing their line of 'reasoning' and actual words.


Anyway, since year-to-year cap increases get baked into contracts, a potential 38% of the players on the 53-man roster (the projected 20 new contracts) are officially 12+% more expensive. Bad year to have a lot of new contracts. Fortunately, it's all covered. Nevermind teams who will spend less on contracts won't feel the impact as much.

Phil fails to understand it's not about what the Vikings do, but how they do relative to other teams.

Break-The-Bank Jefferson has to be a happy man with news of the cap. $33 million is now $37 million.

Right.

Hope Kwesi isn't just a big ol' sycophant and gives JJ dominion over the franchise.

Kind of like a baton passing from Kirk to JJ.

If Kirk can let go.
Post #: 8081
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/23/2024 3:09:26 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Darrisaw's 5th year option just increased based on playing time and the new cap. He's tenth highest in the league for his class! Well deserved!

Cap wise, nothing to see here. It's all factored in. Top 51 has it covered.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fifth-option-salaries-2021-first-185934040.html
Post #: 8082
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 7:45:23 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Darrisaw's 5th year option just increased based on playing time and the new cap. He's tenth highest in the league for his class! Well deserved!

Cap wise, nothing to see here. It's all factored in. Top 51 has it covered.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fifth-option-salaries-2021-first-185934040.html

Wonder what Bill will do when we sign a FA? He works himself into such a lather with the conversations he has with himself on this thread. He posts the signing of Theo Jackson and forgets he was the first one to mention him.

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Post #: 8083
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 8:33:10 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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The big picture is how to get better with any significance. With a thin roster, not a lot of resources, and people in charge that have been making below average personnel and draft decisions. And without handcuffing our cap in the future (like we have been the last 3 years at least).

Versus the simplified, ‘we can create 60M by making some simple moves and then we’re in a good position.

Nobody is saying we won’t sign FAs. We don’t have any choice … we simply dont have enough players, decent or otherwise at this point in time.
Post #: 8084
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 8:49:24 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

The big picture is how to get better with any significance. With a thin roster, not a lot of resources, and people in charge that have been making below average personnel and draft decisions. And without handcuffing our cap in the future (like we have been the last 3 years at least).

Versus the simplified, ‘we can create 60M by making some simple moves and then we’re in a good position.

Nobody is saying we won’t sign FAs. We don’t have any choice … we simply dont have enough players, decent or otherwise at this point in time.

The Vikings current core amounts to a WR and a LT. Really hard to build around that.

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Post #: 8085
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:00:14 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

The big picture is how to get better with any significance. With a thin roster, not a lot of resources, and people in charge that have been making below average personnel and draft decisions. And without handcuffing our cap in the future (like we have been the last 3 years at least).

Versus the simplified, ‘we can create 60M by making some simple moves and then we’re in a good position.

Nobody is saying we won’t sign FAs. We don’t have any choice … we simply dont have enough players, decent or otherwise at this point in time.

The Vikings current core amounts to a WR and a LT. Really hard to build around that.

Both on the cusp of enormous extensions.

The situation is complex and very fluid, in my mind.

We can’t just do whatever we want to do and, voilá!

A lot of our decisions will be contingent on things in and out of our control.
Post #: 8086
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:05:11 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Darrisaw's 5th year option just increased based on playing time and the new cap. He's tenth highest in the league for his class! Well deserved!

Cap wise, nothing to see here. It's all factored in. Top 51 has it covered.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fifth-option-salaries-2021-first-185934040.html

Wonder what Bill will do when we sign a FA? He works himself into such a lather with the conversations he has with himself on this thread. He posts the signing of Theo Jackson and forgets he was the first one to mention him.


I'm all for signing FAs as long as there is plan and responsible use of the cap. Highlighting and trumpeting the Theo Jackson signing was for you, obviously you couldn't differentiate the sarcasm from whatever you turned it into.

Conversations with myself? LOL! How ironic considering how you incessantly reply. More than anyone in fact. However, you are not much of a conversationalist.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/24/2024 10:00:04 AM >
Post #: 8087
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:18:29 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9334
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
.
.
just to further piss a few people off...everything below this line came from VikingsWire....


If they want to create even more cap space to make a huge splash in free agency, they absolutely can do that. What contracts could be modified to fulfill that goal? These six players can have their contracts modified in different ways to create cap space in 2024.


https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-contract-adjust-create-salary-cap-space-brian-oneill-justin-jefferson-harrison-smith/

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 2/24/2024 9:20:29 AM >


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Post #: 8088
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:30:24 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Re the big dollar extensions for JJ and Darrisaw, cap-wise it's like they are too good. And by repeatedly restructuring O'Neill, he's set up on the books to be paid well (IMO overpaid based on performance and position) the next few years unless something changes.

On average, those three may take say $85 million of the cap.

If Harrison Smith is cut, it will be interesting to see if they release him in a few weeks yet designate him as a post-June 1 cut. That kicks $4 million of his cap into next year. Interesting in that it may provide a bit of a barometer into whether Kwesi is still on the pay later kick.
Post #: 8089
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:35:05 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27641
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
just to further piss a few people off...everything below this line came from VikingsWire....


If they want to create even more cap space to make a huge splash in free agency, they absolutely can do that. What contracts could be modified to fulfill that goal? These six players can have their contracts modified in different ways to create cap space in 2024.


https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-contract-adjust-create-salary-cap-space-brian-oneill-justin-jefferson-harrison-smith/


Without even reading it, those sites have some funny stuff. One site had a headline about signing a good FA TE because Hock might not be ready. I guess when you are this > < close to the Super Bowl, every game is vital. And of course there are not enough TEs on the roster.
Post #: 8090
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:37:25 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


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Status: online
Of all the things about the cap..

Extensions to never wills and dead cap in future years ..

Queasy better hop off that market strategy, or he is going to find out NFL= not for long

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I am WRATH, incarnate.
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Post #: 8091
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:41:46 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
just to further piss a few people off...everything below this line came from VikingsWire....


If they want to create even more cap space to make a huge splash in free agency, they absolutely can do that. What contracts could be modified to fulfill that goal? These six players can have their contracts modified in different ways to create cap space in 2024.


https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-contract-adjust-create-salary-cap-space-brian-oneill-justin-jefferson-harrison-smith/

I think its been said in different ways.

Signing FAs is not an issue. There are all kinds of ways to create space and massage the cap. I haven’t heard anybody dispute that although that seems to be a perception.

You can’t or shouldn’t create cap space if you are shooting yourself in the foot by doing so.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/24/2024 9:47:32 AM >
Post #: 8092
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:45:59 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5711
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
just to further piss a few people off...everything below this line came from VikingsWire....


If they want to create even more cap space to make a huge splash in free agency, they absolutely can do that. What contracts could be modified to fulfill that goal? These six players can have their contracts modified in different ways to create cap space in 2024.


https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-contract-adjust-create-salary-cap-space-brian-oneill-justin-jefferson-harrison-smith/


Without even reading it, those sites have some funny stuff. One site had a headline about signing a good FA TE because Hock might not be ready. I guess when you are this > < close to the Super Bowl, every game is vital. And of course there are not enough TEs on the roster.

I swear to God if we sign another second tier TE this offseason I’m going to run into a wall head first.
Post #: 8093
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 9:48:59 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27641
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Of all the things about the cap..

Extensions to never wills and dead cap in future years ..

Queasy better hop off that market strategy, or he is going to find out NFL= not for long



Yep, anything is possible. We could get to $100 million by ordering more smoke and mirrors. Not saying it will be that extreme, but at what point do the Wilfs step in and say enough of this moving money into the future (and maybe implying to Kwesi that he will be putting the next GM in a tough spot)... like what Spielman left when he was fired.
Post #: 8094
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 10:05:43 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


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Status: online
And by never wills..

I include JJ and his $ eyes$.

This team is sooooo far from being deep playoffs run ready that his best years would be better served in another franchise..

As tough as that is to swallow..

He is such a great player..

Bullets are hard to bite for a reason..

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 8095
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 11:22:35 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9334
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
just to further piss a few people off...everything below this line came from VikingsWire....


If they want to create even more cap space to make a huge splash in free agency, they absolutely can do that. What contracts could be modified to fulfill that goal? These six players can have their contracts modified in different ways to create cap space in 2024.


https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/lists/vikings-contract-adjust-create-salary-cap-space-brian-oneill-justin-jefferson-harrison-smith/


Without even reading it, those sites have some funny stuff. One site had a headline about signing a good FA TE because Hock might not be ready. I guess when you are this > < close to the Super Bowl, every game is vital. And of course there are not enough TEs on the roster.

I swear to God if we sign another second tier TE this offseason I’m going to run into a wall head first.



we should have kept ben sims (6-5, 250), a rookie out of baylor - cut for the final 53 last season - we will be sorry - mark my words....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8096
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 11:34:15 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9334
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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
.
.
the underlying question to all of these conversations is: do we try to win now and stretch out the credit card accounting, or blow it up and try to win in a few years?

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 8097
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 12:39:00 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12891
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
the underlying question to all of these conversations is: do we try to win now and stretch out the credit card accounting, or blow it up and try to win in a few years?

How long have we been doing the “ we could win, now if.. “ with back loaded contracts, past their prim players, key players on offense with turnover issues or idiotic decisions, but gaudy worthless stats.

Start the hell over..and over and over.. every off season.. ssdd..

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 8098
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 1:10:50 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
the underlying question to all of these conversations is: do we try to win now and stretch out the credit card accounting, or blow it up and try to win in a few years?

2009, 2017. Both outliers (not teams built for sustained success) and both teams that won on QB rentals who exploded expectations. Some of us will include 2022 but I think that team is an insult to the other two. [even though for my money, it was vastly more enjoyable than getting used to Farve]

You have to go back to 1997-2000 for a competitive run.

I mean really, if we 'load up' this offseason aren't we simply continuing to put ourselves in the same position ... a wild card victory or not?

Then there's the underlying question underlying the question, whatever we spend – can we even win now if we mortgage the future this offseason ... given the people making decisions?
Post #: 8099
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/24/2024 2:03:26 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27641
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
the underlying question to all of these conversations is: do we try to win now and stretch out the credit card accounting, or blow it up and try to win in a few years?


Do we try to win now and stretch out the credit card accounting? We are talent deficient in too many areas to win now, regardless of the credit cards.

As far as blowing it up, everyone has a different interpretation of that. IMO it includes trading away talented players to gain draft picks and cap space. Kind of a non-starter because there are so few players on the team with that talent. Who fits the criteria?

- Darrisaw, no. Don't trade a very good, young LT primarily because he protects the QB's blind spot.
- Hock, no. Doubt we get comparable picks in return. Who would do that with his salary, especially after his injury? He's not in the mix.
- Pace, no. Just started his rookie contract, potentially part of the future.
- Blackmon, no. Just started his rookie contract, potentially part of the future.

- O'Neill, a likely no. Trade bait, but who would want to fork over picks and take on his salary.
- JJ, yes. Discussed ad nausem.

Besides JJ, barring being foolish, or finding a really stupid GM to deal with, we don't have assets to blow anything up! Your criteria may vary.
Post #: 8100
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