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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 12:08:46 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Onto the 4th round picks. Needs include IOL, DL, WR3.

Because all players at those positions are going to have flaws, look for the one-dimensional speed WR. A Matthew Hatchette type. Leave the route running to JJ and Addison.

Or maybe a one dimensional DL, be it run-stuffer or pass rusher.

A one dimensional G or C sounds like a disaster.

Post #: 376

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 12:17:06 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryboy

It's one thing to have an athletic QB, it's another to make use of that. I'm not yet convinced KOC could make use of that, he squeezed Dobbs into his system once he had more time with him, in my opinion.

Then again, that could be that the offense was predicated around Cousins and didn't have a lot of plays that take advantage of QB mobility. Seems like a coach should have a playbook that is larger than the capabilities of the current personnel and adjust when those capabilities change.

The backup was Mullens, basically similar to Cousins. Maybe they took risk that Cousins would not get injured, or if he did by then Mullens would be back.

Because offseason practice time is less and less, they have to pick and choose what plays to work on. And I've read it is very difficult to make in-season adjustments.

IMO the real fault is signing someone like Dobbs in the first place. Total mismatch of playing style. They should have instead signed a Cousins/Mullens clone.

Post #: 377

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 12:36:35 PM

larryboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryboy

It's one thing to have an athletic QB, it's another to make use of that. I'm not yet convinced KOC could make use of that, he squeezed Dobbs into his system once he had more time with him, in my opinion.

Then again, that could be that the offense was predicated around Cousins and didn't have a lot of plays that take advantage of QB mobility. Seems like a coach should have a playbook that is larger than the capabilities of the current personnel and adjust when those capabilities change.

The backup was Mullens, basically similar to Cousins. Maybe they took risk that Cousins would not get injured, or if he did by then Mullens would be back.

Because offseason practice time is less and less, they have to pick and choose what plays to work on. And I've read it is very difficult to make in-season adjustments.

IMO the real fault is signing someone like Dobbs in the first place. Total mismatch of playing style. They should have instead signed a Cousins/Mullens clone.

Makes sense, but I also think that improved line play gives more options to an athletic QB in terms of finding an escape lane if necessary even in the same system. Seeing the line collapse so many times would make almost any QB look slow footed.

Post #: 378

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 6:41:48 PM

marty

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I think you could divide the QBs into 3 categories or tiers: Tier 1 - Franchise QB.

Tier 2 - Average or even slightly below average QB.

Tier 3 - Busts.

I think Williams and Daniels will be Tier 1. Nix and Maye Tier 2, with Nix being nearly Tier 1. McCarthy and Penix Tier 3.

If you were 2 guess and put 2 QB in each of the 3 categories, where would you put them ?

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Post #: 379

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 6:46:37 PM

marty

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It is now my hope that the Vikings only want to trade up to one of the 1st 3 spots for Williams or Daniels, not Maye.

I hope if they don't get Williams or Daniels, they stay put and either go defense, or take a chance on Nix or McCarthy at 11, or even at 23.

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Post #: 380

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 7:29:33 PM

marty

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David, thanks for posting those links, I have now subscribed to that guy, his analysis is excellent.

He has me a little less concerned about Maye.

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Post #: 381

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/16/2024 7:32:52 PM

marty

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It is possible, that if the Vikings make offers to move up, and the offers are rejected, it's possible the Vikings trade back with one of their 1st round picks, and either get a 2nd and a 2nd (2025), or maybe even trade back with #11, and get back a 2nd this year, and a 1st rounder next year.

Getting another 1st rounder next year for pick #11 seems a little farfetched, but you never know.

Anyone know what value would the Vikings expect to get if they traded #11 to a team that offered a mid round 2nd from this year, what would that team have to add from next year's draft to move up to pick #11 this year ?

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Post #: 382

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 6:39:56 AM

BisonFan

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I first have to say it has been really fun reading these forums the last week. Sure helps with my football withdrawals. I have been happy with the free agent signings and they should help the team. I am really curious and anxious to see how the first round plays out for the team. Kwesi really has little or no room for error in getting a quarterback, but he will have this year and next year as he will have a ton of money to spend in free agency.

With that said and taking Williams not available, I would put in order Maye, Daniels, and then McCarthy. All of the potential for busts, but that's part of the game. I also wouldn't hate on Nix showing up in the locker room if things don't play out during the draft for the others. No matter what, I will be cheering for the Purple and Gold this fall.

Post #: 383

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 7:22:33 AM

marty

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Why do you rank Mayes ahead of Daniels ?

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 7:24:12 AM

marty

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After seeing this video (and a few others), I am now convinced Jayden Daniels is the best QB in this draft, and hope the Vikings are trading up for him:

https://youtu.be/XJzs9hksGSE?si=ads1KGHCMLLr16uB

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 8:21:44 AM

Todd M

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Stay down on Maye, Marty. With KG down on him we only need Brad to be down him to make it all but certain he’ll be all pro.

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 8:25:16 AM

Todd M

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Up to 3 for Maye seems like the most likely scenarios.

I don’t see a way Chicago and Washington move from their spots but New England likely will with Daniels off the board.

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 8:31:40 AM

Todd M

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6 guys. Last year there were 3 and only one in retrospect looks worthy of making a big move for. Yes the jury is still out but you have to figure 3 out of the 6 are likely to disappoint. We’re going to miss out on the cream of the crop in Daniels and Williams so the odds are a bit stacked against us.

Post #: 388

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 9:40:42 AM

marty

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Todd, I think you're right about Maye being the most likely trade up for Vikings to pick at #3.

I am not down on Maye, there is plenty to like in his film. He has flashes of Favre, is big, throws a lot of medium range passes.

Like you said they can't all be great picks, about the only one I am down on is Penix, I don't like the injury history.

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Post #: 389

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 9:42:19 AM

marty

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It seems obvious that Spielman wasn't visiting this site, but Kwesi must have read my posts about Richardson last year, trying to trade up and get him.

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Post #: 390

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 9:44:33 AM

marty

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This year I want Kwesi to do what he can to get to #2 and choose Jayden Daniels.

I would start with the 2 1st round picks this year + the 1st rounder in 2025. IF Washington doesn't like that, I would try the 2 1st round picks this year + Addison.

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Post #: 391

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 9:49:35 AM

Chris Olson

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Love love love Daniels...

kid is special

so fun to watch

Also, there is a feeling for me that Daniels and JJ would really hit it off and become one of "those" duos

guys that practice together outside of practice and really get to know each others' tendencies and instincts when things break down and all that

Post #: 392

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 9:55:51 AM

Chris Olson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

This year I want Kwesi to do what he can to get to #2 and choose Jayden Daniels.

I would start with the 2 1st round picks this year + the 1st rounder in 2025. IF Washington doesn't like that, I would try the 2 1st round picks this year + Addison.

not sure about giving away Addison, but certainly those 3 first round picks have to be enticing for a team that needs a lot

getting to 2 would be amazing, and I feel like the move to get the 23 pick was loudly proclaiming we want in that top 2-3 picks

Post #: 393

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:06:53 AM

Jeff Jesser

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I don't think there's any way in hell we're getting to 2. Washington desperately needs an infusion of excitement. New owner, getting of the stench of Snyder ect.....

The fans there need hope. Daniels provides that. Would it be long term prudent to stockpile picks? Sure. It's not sexy though.

NE, on the other hand. Recent success. D based coach who probably can sell Craft a longer vision ect. 3 is probably in play. Not 2.

Post #: 394

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:07:15 AM

Chris Olson

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watching some of the game film videos of Warner breaking down the top qb's is insightful

I feel like, despite so many folks suggesting Maye has too many inconsistencies and all that, the comes off as still pretty incredible

i had a couple takeaways from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T79DSxztUEQ

1-his play style is more Josh Allen than Kirk Cousins (which is probably the knock on him...tries to create too much, rather than living to play another down)

2-his team and coaching are really mediocre...that kid was the whole UNC team...would be interesting to see how Caleb and Daniels would fare with WR's that NEVER get separation and conversely, how would Maye fare with LSU WR's?

3-he certainly feels like a KOC guy

4-I won't cry if he is our pick

Post #: 395

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:17:40 AM

Chris Olson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I don't think there's any way in hell we're getting to 2. Washington desperately needs an infusion of excitement. New owner, getting of the stench of Snyder ect.....

The fans there need hope. Daniels provides that. Would it be long term prudent to stockpile picks? Sure. It's not sexy though.

NE, on the other hand. Recent success. D based coach who probably can sell Craft a longer vision ect. 3 is probably in play. Not 2.

yeah, that is why I am going back through the Maye stuff, because he was pretty consensus #2 QB this year for 2 years straight and now you hear all the chatter about Maye's inconsistencies and red flags, that he'll most likely be the QB to bust...blah blah blah

Daniels is just so exciting, great mechanics, study habits, mobility, accuracy...

though, of course he had Malik Nabers, et al, running free every play, which makes decision making a lot easier

I think both guys will do well, and still be pretty psyched if we can pull off getting Maye

Post #: 396

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:23:53 AM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Up to 3 for Maye seems like the most likely scenarios.

I don’t see a way Chicago and Washington move from their spots but New England likely will with Daniels off the board.

I still say if you want #3, you're going to have to get #5 first.

3 to 11 is too far of a drop.

Post #: 397

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:43:46 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

watching some of the game film videos of Warner breaking down the top qb's is insightful

I feel like, despite so many folks suggesting Maye has too many inconsistencies and all that, the comes off as still pretty incredible

i had a couple takeaways from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T79DSxztUEQ

1-his play style is more Josh Allen than Kirk Cousins (which is probably the knock on him...tries to create too much, rather than living to play another down)

2-his team and coaching are really mediocre...that kid was the whole UNC team...would be interesting to see how Caleb and Daniels would fare with WR's that NEVER get separation and conversely, how would Maye fare with LSU WR's?

3-he certainly feels like a KOC guy

4-I won't cry if he is our pick

Sums up my feelings up pretty feelings as well. The biggest knock on Maye, per the Scouting reports, is that he tries to play hero ball at times. That's the same top knock against Williams.

Look, there are no guarantees with any of these guys. Maye is the #2 rated QB on most scouting sites. You want to get a franchise QB, you have to pay the price and assume the risks.

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:45:52 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Up to 3 for Maye seems like the most likely scenarios.

I don’t see a way Chicago and Washington move from their spots but New England likely will with Daniels off the board.

I still say if you want #3, you're going to have to get #5 first.

3 to 11 is too far of a drop.

Yep. I've heard the rumors that NE likes McCarthy. #5 should get him.

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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/17/2024 10:47:50 AM

Murph

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Up to 3 for Maye seems like the most likely scenarios.

I don’t see a way Chicago and Washington move from their spots but New England likely will with Daniels off the board.

I still say if you want #3, you're going to have to get #5 first.

3 to 11 is too far of a drop.

Maybe they're working on a 3 team trade?

Vikings, Patriots and Chargers?

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