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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 8:01:15 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27443
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M


Would JJ be Williams or more Daniels?

Could have been anything and we’ll never know.

I do wish KOC wasn’t so against JJM starting so young that he sat him out with an “injury”.

I’ll protect you, Kevin said, as they spooned.
I know you will, Daddy. The young J…


For more homo-erotica including this story and more, send $12.99US to…

C’mon Todd…

Are you so enamored, after three games, all impressive wins, I will concede, that you have to question the decision of the very management,that has us looking pretty solid?
I believe you mentioned something like “ if Darnold proves to be a one season contract, wonder, weshould sign him to a three great deal and put JJM on the trade block, for a draft pick or two…”
Is that what you really think we should do?
Your choice of crating a “ homo- erotic” scenario, where you imply that the coach is falsely protecting a rookie from being pushed into the fire, over an injury that you seem to dismiss as trivial.
I don’t get it.
We need draft picks next off.. that is a fact.
But why does it have to be at the expense of smearing the head coma process, and the relationship he is developing with a rookie QB?
You disrespect them both, with such a seemingly bizarre and hopefully sarcastic, scenario.
Why?


Protecting the QBOTF who is 21 years old makes a ton of sense. Team Concept should be a fan concept also.

Nice to win and have two high talent rookies we don't need to completely depend on (JJ and Turner).

We’ll, Phil.. check hell for ice..

We agree on something.


We do agree more than either of us wants to admit...it is how we convey it sometimes that sets us off.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 2276
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 8:31:02 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28629
Status: offline
Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.
Post #: 2277
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 8:53:04 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40693
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
I haven’t concluded a thing. Just preparing for the possibility that they’re not going to want to let Darnold go if he’s red hot this year.

Problem is people are drawing incorrect conclusions all over the place.
Post #: 2278
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 9:45:44 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.
Post #: 2279
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 10:28:53 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45025
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.

Can they trade Darnold at that point? He's only on a one year deal.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 2280
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 10:32:24 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39293
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 2281
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 10:33:16 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40693
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
Zenith is the word of the day.
Post #: 2282
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 10:59:07 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?
Post #: 2283
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 11:51:00 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?

Yes, sarcasm intended to throw fuel on Bill's trade-talk annoyance, provoke it into one of his rare violent outbursts with blood sprayed on the ceiling.

Even though I operate on a much higher spiritual plane, I do agree, its only the start of the season.

We have no idea what we have in Darnold and obviously McCarthy (double-obviously).

Darnold has at least played in a few games and crossed over a few thresholds, 'he's not capable of being a starter in this league,' and, 'he can't play at a high level in this league.' Which is what I and a lot of people were saying just 4 weeks ago ... WRONG!

Yet ... what kind of full-time starter remains to be seen. How long can he sustain it over the course of a season. Can he bounce back after the inevitable crappy game. Within a cruddy game. In a playoff race. In a playoff game. Etc.

It's all in front of us.
Post #: 2284
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 12:23:38 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?

Yes, sarcasm intended to throw fuel on Bill's trade-talk annoyance, provoke it into one of his rare violent outbursts with blood sprayed on the ceiling.

Even though I operate on a much higher spiritual plane, I do agree, its only the start of the season.

We have no idea what we have in Darnold and obviously McCarthy (double-obviously).

Darnold has at least played in a few games and crossed over a few thresholds, 'he's not capable of being a starter in this league,' and, 'he can't play at a high level in this league.' Which is what I and a lot of people were saying just 4 weeks ago ... WRONG!

Yet ... what kind of full-time starter remains to be seen. How long can he sustain it over the course of a season. Can he bounce back after the inevitable crappy game. Within a cruddy game. In a playoff race. In a playoff game. Etc.

It's all in front of us.


I hate the remains to be seen approach. Or the curb your enthusiasm regrading how good we are ...

Yet, I get it. But it seems like you can never really like somthing bc it's too possible it ain't what it seems

Right now, Im trying to not even think about it. But beat GB good then piss pound Det and life will have to change.

What are the chances?
Post #: 2285
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 12:32:52 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
NFL 3-0 starts: Which undefeated teams are real contenders?

Minnesota Vikings

The wins:
at N.Y. Giants (28-6), vs. San Francisco (23-17), vs. Houston (34-7)

The most fascinating team of these five has to be the Vikings. We spent much of the offseason discussing their decisions to move on from quarterback Kirk Cousins, draft J.J. McCarthy as the replacement and trade up in Round 1 to take edge rusher Dallas Turner. And so far, the top two picks have played virtually no role in this start; McCarthy is out for the season with a torn meniscus in his right knee, and Turner has one sack across 54 snaps, having missed last week's win over the Texans with a knee issue.

Minnesota already has had to deal with a lot of missing players. McCarthy won't play this season. Wideout Jordan Addison injured his ankle before the season and has played 28 snaps. Dalton Risner, who started at guard a year ago, is on injured reserve. Tight end T.J. Hockenson is still a ways away from returning after tearing up his knee last season. Ivan Pace, last year's revelation at linebacker, missed Week 3 with a quad injury. It has been a lot for three weeks.

And yet, the Vikings have two of the more impressive wins we've seen this season. Blowing out the Giants was one thing, but they were up by two scores for much of the second half against the 49ers, then blew out a 2-0 Texans team by 27 points. At plus-55, they have the third best point differential of any team, trailing only the Bills (plus-64) and Saints (plus-59).

Minnesota's defense has become appointment film viewing on a weekly basis. Last season, coordinator Brian Flores installed an unconventional blitz-heavy, zone-based coverage that seemed to break the rules of what defenses were supposed to do at times. As ESPN reporter Kevin Seifert documented in January, while the innovations yielded the league's best defense for a 10-week stretch, teams eventually figured out where the Vikings could be attacked. After ranking second in points allowed per drive between Weeks 4 and 14, they fell to 31st in the same category over the final month of the season, going 0-4 in the process.

The 2024 defense looks like a better and more sustainable version of the 2023 unit, combining the pre- and post-snap uncertainty that helped create its success with better players who are capable of both masking what they're going to do and actually executing a variety of responsibilities well. It's easy to tell Flores is creating havoc on a defense when the opposing quarterback compliments his scheme after a win.

This is a defense full of hybrids. Players who were here a year ago continue to thrive, including Josh Metellus, nominally a defensive back whose most frequent starting position on defense this season has been lining up as a blitzer in the A-gap. The Vikings have added Andrew Van Ginkel, a former inside linebacker who played more and more on the edge with the Dolphins the past few seasons. Used full-time as a slot defender now, his ability to drop into coverage on the backside of sim pressures and overloads is lethal. He already has took a pick-six to the house on a screen against the Giants.

What Flores has done is divorce the pre-snap look opposing quarterbacks are seeing from the actual post-snap coverage they get to a greater extent than any other quarterback. There's one number that stands out to me here. According to NFL Next Gen Stats, when a Vikings defender has lined up on the line of scrimmage this season, he has dropped back into coverage nearly 45% of the time. That's nearly double the league average and seven percentage points beyond the second-placed Chiefs, who are as close to 10th as they are to first.

Flores is still sending plenty of blitzes -- Minnesota's 39.3% blitz rate is the third highest in football -- but most of those pressures are coming on first and second down, where the unit is blitzing at the second-highest rate. On third down, the Vikings blitz only 23% of the time, which is below league average (22nd). The Kyle Shanahan offenses thrive by picking defenses apart on early downs, and Flores has outmaneuvered them in back-to-back weeks. Then, on passing downs, his defense drops into coverage and swallows everything up.

This led to a frustrating game for Brock Purdy and an exasperating one for C.J. Stroud, who threw two interceptions and got away with at least a couple more. The Texans gained six net yards on 18 second-down plays last Sunday. Yes, that's 0.3 yards per play. Only three teams have had a worse day on second down in any game over the past five seasons. That meant Stroud faced third-and-10-plus on 10 different occasions, the first time that has happened for any team since 2022. Stroud spent many of those snaps scrambling and struggling to find any of his star receivers open.

While much has been made of general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah's 2022 draft class and their struggles to get on the field for various reasons, the Vikings have managed to cobble together a cornerback room of veterans for relatively cheap. Byron Murphy, Shaquill Griffin and Stephon Gilmore were all signed as free agents, with Murphy coming in last season, Griffin signing in March and Gilmore joining in mid-August after a multiyear market never developed. They've helped Minnesota rank third in QBR allowed when the pass rush doesn't happen to get home. Even special-teamer Kamu Grugier-Hill managed to come away with an interception while filling in for Pace at linebacker last week. This is the league's most entertaining defense.

If I'm wildly optimistic about the defense, I'm a little more concerned about the offense. The McCarthy injury forced the Vikings to turn to Sam Darnold, who signed a one-year deal for about $10 million in March. They have to be thrilled with the early returns. He ranks fifth in the NFL in QBR (73.5) and is averaging 8.4 yards per attempt while throwing a league high eight touchdown passes.

Have the Vikings unlocked the Darnold many expected when the Jets drafted him with No. 3 overall in 2018? I'm skeptical. We've seen him show off his talent and make some spectacular throws, most notably the 97-yard touchdown pass to Justin Jefferson, but that shouldn't be a surprise. He always has had an NFL-caliber arm, and he once held the league lead for rushing touchdowns during a hot start to the 2021 season with the Panthers.

That season, though, bears some parallels to this one. That version of Darnold and the Panthers got off to a 3-0 start, and he was able to spend virtually all of those games playing from ahead. When Christian McCaffrey went down injured and Carolina started to trail in contests, his hot start quickly dissipated.

Darnold has taken only three dropbacks this season in situations in which the Vikings were trailing. They were in the opening quarter of Week 1 against the Giants, which didn't really qualify as an obvious passing situation. To use the Next Gen Stats model of how likely a pass attempt is to occur on a given play, 41 of Darnold's 89 dropbacks have come in situations where the likelihood of a pass was 75% or greater.

In those situations, Darnold averages 5.8 yards per attempt, which ranks 23rd out of 31 quarterbacks. He has four touchdown passes on 34 attempts, which boosts his passer rating up to a very impressive 116.8, but I'm not sure he has been great in those spots on the whole. He ranks second in the NFL, on the other hand, in yards per attempt in all other situations.

Even given that he hasn't been trailing often, there's been enough of the old Darnold that I'm hesitant to jump onboard with the idea that this is a new quarterback. He has fumbled three times, including a contested pass that went 5 yards backward, and an inexplicable overhand pitch attempt on a play whose timing was busted. Minnesota has recovered all three. He has thrown two bad picks and had, by my count, at least four interceptable passes in his first three games that fell harmlessly to the turf after being defensed. He added a dead-to-rights intentional grounding penalty against the 49ers, admittedly on a play in which there was instant pressure up the A-gap.

The truth on Darnold probably falls somewhere between the guy who struggled badly with the Jets and Panthers and the one who's off to a 3-0 start. The Vikings will inevitably be in situations where he needs to throw, and that's where we'll get the best sense of his development over the past few seasons. A matchup with a Packers defense that just walloped Will Levis should be compelling, but the following week will be must-see television: Darnold will get a rivalry game against his old organization, facing the Jets in England.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/41433862/nfl-3-0-starts-undefeated-teams-real-contenders-2024-playoffs-standings
Post #: 2286
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:07:44 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28629
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I haven’t concluded a thing. Just preparing for the possibility that they’re not going to want to let Darnold go if he’s red hot this year.

Problem is people are drawing incorrect conclusions all over the place.


Yeah, I'm not too versed in "homo-erotica".

As for people drawing incorrect conclusions... pot meet kettle.
Post #: 2287
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:08:30 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28629
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?

Yes, sarcasm intended to throw fuel on Bill's trade-talk annoyance, provoke it into one of his rare violent outbursts with blood sprayed on the ceiling.

Even though I operate on a much higher spiritual plane, I do agree, its only the start of the season.

We have no idea what we have in Darnold and obviously McCarthy (double-obviously).

Darnold has at least played in a few games and crossed over a few thresholds, 'he's not capable of being a starter in this league,' and, 'he can't play at a high level in this league.' Which is what I and a lot of people were saying just 4 weeks ago ... WRONG!

Yet ... what kind of full-time starter remains to be seen. How long can he sustain it over the course of a season. Can he bounce back after the inevitable crappy game. Within a cruddy game. In a playoff race. In a playoff game. Etc.

It's all in front of us.


Bottomline is the two QBs need to go.
Post #: 2288
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:13:39 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28629
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?


He's quite 'That does not compute' Spock-ish when faced with even a bit of sarcasm. And of course such a post is followed by a lecture.
Post #: 2289
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:15:50 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45025
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
That's a fairly good assessment of Darnold in David's post, but I disagree on a couple points. Only one of his two ints was bad IMO. The second was a straight up bad throw. Darnold's arm was hit on the first one. I don't know about the 4 interceptable pass assessment. That seems a bit subjective. Every QB gets away with one here and there. I haven't really seen a Case Keenum streak in Darnold yet. There are some things KOC is trying to iron out with him in terms of not making a bad play worse. We'll see how that works itself out.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 9/26/2024 1:17:36 PM >


_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 2290
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:19:27 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40693
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
You could argue the 2nd was an extremely athletic effort by the defender.
Post #: 2291
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:28:54 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

You could argue the 2nd was an extremely athletic effort by the defender.

Ive noted that myself - pretty much parallel and four feet off the ground when he snagged that one
Post #: 2292
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 1:46:56 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39293
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?


He's quite 'That does not compute' Spock-ish when faced with even a bit of sarcasm. And of course such a post is followed by a lecture.


and you have a tendency toward posting about other posters instead of sticking to the topic being discussed.

You don't have to read my posts...if it's difficult for you, then don't

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 2293
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 2:31:33 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?

Yes, sarcasm intended to throw fuel on Bill's trade-talk annoyance, provoke it into one of his rare violent outbursts with blood sprayed on the ceiling.

Even though I operate on a much higher spiritual plane, I do agree, its only the start of the season.

We have no idea what we have in Darnold and obviously McCarthy (double-obviously).

Darnold has at least played in a few games and crossed over a few thresholds, 'he's not capable of being a starter in this league,' and, 'he can't play at a high level in this league.' Which is what I and a lot of people were saying just 4 weeks ago ... WRONG!

Yet ... what kind of full-time starter remains to be seen. How long can he sustain it over the course of a season. Can he bounce back after the inevitable crappy game. Within a cruddy game. In a playoff race. In a playoff game. Etc.

It's all in front of us.


I hate the remains to be seen approach. Or the curb your enthusiasm regrading how good we are ...

Yet, I get it. But it seems like you can never really like somthing bc it's too possible it ain't what it seems

Right now, Im trying to not even think about it. But beat GB good then piss pound Det and life will have to change.

What are the chances?

Not my perspective at all.

The first three games have been a blast.

I don't temper my enjoyment while we're playing. I do pay attention to both the good and bad. Afterwards I do temper what's happened against the big picture.

I just don't see trying to be realistic as a downer.

If you think I'm not enjoying it as much as the next guy or as much as I would by being more optimistic ...

I don't know what to tell you. It feels like we've covered this ground before.

We all process things differently.
Post #: 2294
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 2:38:39 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?

Yes, sarcasm intended to throw fuel on Bill's trade-talk annoyance, provoke it into one of his rare violent outbursts with blood sprayed on the ceiling.

Even though I operate on a much higher spiritual plane, I do agree, its only the start of the season.

We have no idea what we have in Darnold and obviously McCarthy (double-obviously).

Darnold has at least played in a few games and crossed over a few thresholds, 'he's not capable of being a starter in this league,' and, 'he can't play at a high level in this league.' Which is what I and a lot of people were saying just 4 weeks ago ... WRONG!

Yet ... what kind of full-time starter remains to be seen. How long can he sustain it over the course of a season. Can he bounce back after the inevitable crappy game. Within a cruddy game. In a playoff race. In a playoff game. Etc.

It's all in front of us.


I hate the remains to be seen approach. Or the curb your enthusiasm regrading how good we are ...

Yet, I get it. But it seems like you can never really like somthing bc it's too possible it ain't what it seems

Right now, Im trying to not even think about it. But beat GB good then piss pound Det and life will have to change.

What are the chances?

Not my perspective at all.

The first three games have been a blast.

I don't temper my enjoyment while we're playing. I do pay attention to both the good and bad. Afterwards I do temper what's happened against the big picture.

I just don't see trying to be realistic as a downer.

If you think I'm not enjoying it as much as the next guy or as much as I would by being more optimistic ...

I don't know what to tell you. It feels like we've covered this ground before.

We all process things differently.

:)

Im just saying

This is about me
Post #: 2295
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 2:39:24 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

You could argue the 2nd was an extremely athletic effort by the defender.

What I saw and what the announcers pointed out clearly was that, if Warner hadn't intercepted the ball, #6 Mustapha had jumped the route behind Warner and was in prime position to also intercept the ball.

It was simply a bad QB decision.

Big deal. Darnold bounced back beautifully.

Is this being negative? Am I failing the cheer test?

Whatever.
Post #: 2296
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 2:44:27 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Why wait on JJM? Let's trade him now. Then if Darnold reverts to being Darnold, we can again enter the offseason with the worst QB situation in the league.

The conclusions from just three games are nothing short of astounding.

I personally think we should trade Darnold, but not immediately. Bide our time, then the second the MVP votes are tabulated - BANG BOOM WHISTLE POP - pull the trigger. At the zenith of his trade value.

I saw enough of JJ in one preseason game to move on from 10 Darnolds.

Oh hell. After achieving the zenith of Darnold trade value, I’d even trade JJ too for maximum zenith trade value, if there was a prospect we fancied in the next draft.

Someone we could truly say was ‘our guy’.

None of this lucking out crap with draft bust Darnold and 4th choice JJ.


Sorry Tom, but this is a bunch of nonsense.

Tablulation of MVP votes will be done after the regular season. At which time we can't trade him until the new league year. and at that point, since he was signed to just a 1 year contract, he will be a free agent and not ours to trade.

Trade JJ too? How about we let him actually play a few meaningful games before giving up on him? We would get nothing valuable in return in this scenario. And why can't we say he's truly our guy.

IIRC Dan Marino was about the 4th or 5th QB taken in that draft. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round. Brock Purdy is doing pretty well considering where he was drafted. And the first choice in this years draft is not doing well. JJ may be one of the best QBs taken in this draft and he may only achieve that under the tutelage of one KOC.

Sometimes lucking out with someone else's bust (It's reasonable to believe Darnold busted because he had no real team around him in New York or Carolina) is the way to success. Steve Young failed in Tampa, in a big way...backed up Montana and then had a HOF career. There is no reason Darnold can't go on to have a great career after this stint here. Why not capitalize on that?

Maybe your post was all tongue in cheek, I don't know, it's hard to convey in print. But trade a reclamation project that was successful when we can't and then move on a from a guy was spent a high draft pick on before even trying to see if he's any good? Just to take a shot on a crapshoot draftpick next year? Nonsense.


Of course it was.

Do we really need to use the sarcasm emoji when its that clear?

Yes, sarcasm intended to throw fuel on Bill's trade-talk annoyance, provoke it into one of his rare violent outbursts with blood sprayed on the ceiling.

Even though I operate on a much higher spiritual plane, I do agree, its only the start of the season.

We have no idea what we have in Darnold and obviously McCarthy (double-obviously).

Darnold has at least played in a few games and crossed over a few thresholds, 'he's not capable of being a starter in this league,' and, 'he can't play at a high level in this league.' Which is what I and a lot of people were saying just 4 weeks ago ... WRONG!

Yet ... what kind of full-time starter remains to be seen. How long can he sustain it over the course of a season. Can he bounce back after the inevitable crappy game. Within a cruddy game. In a playoff race. In a playoff game. Etc.

It's all in front of us.


I hate the remains to be seen approach. Or the curb your enthusiasm regrading how good we are ...

Yet, I get it. But it seems like you can never really like somthing bc it's too possible it ain't what it seems

Right now, Im trying to not even think about it. But beat GB good then piss pound Det and life will have to change.

What are the chances?

Not my perspective at all.

The first three games have been a blast.

I don't temper my enjoyment while we're playing. I do pay attention to both the good and bad. Afterwards I do temper what's happened against the big picture.

I just don't see trying to be realistic as a downer.

If you think I'm not enjoying it as much as the next guy or as much as I would by being more optimistic ...

I don't know what to tell you. It feels like we've covered this ground before.

We all process things differently.

:)

Im just saying

This is about me

I'm just saying ...

again for umpteenth time ...

if you respond to a post by saying 'you do this' or 'you do that' ... grammar and syntax require the original poster to take the comment as directed at them.
Post #: 2297
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 3:06:12 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40693
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

You could argue the 2nd was an extremely athletic effort by the defender.

What I saw and what the announcers pointed out clearly was that, if Warner hadn't intercepted the ball, #6 Mustapha had jumped the route behind Warner and was in prime position to also intercept the ball.

It was simply a bad QB decision.

Big deal. Darnold bounced back beautifully.

Is this being negative? Am I failing the cheer test?

Whatever.


I never question you so no reason to put that on a post to me.

I have a ton of respect for you and think you’re cool as anything.

I say it’s at worst a inc but hey that’s me.
Post #: 2298
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 3:26:09 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45025
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

You could argue the 2nd was an extremely athletic effort by the defender.

What I saw and what the announcers pointed out clearly was that, if Warner hadn't intercepted the ball, #6 Mustapha had jumped the route behind Warner and was in prime position to also intercept the ball.

It was simply a bad QB decision.

Big deal. Darnold bounced back beautifully.

Is this being negative? Am I failing the cheer test?

Whatever.


I never question you so no reason to put that on a post to me.

I have a ton of respect for you and think you’re cool as anything.

I say it’s at worst a inc but hey that’s me.

Darnold had tunnel vision on the receiver and didn't see the defender laying in the weeds. If he had elevated the throw, he might have had a shot.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 2299
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2024 3:45:39 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

You could argue the 2nd was an extremely athletic effort by the defender.

What I saw and what the announcers pointed out clearly was that, if Warner hadn't intercepted the ball, #6 Mustapha had jumped the route behind Warner and was in prime position to also intercept the ball.

It was simply a bad QB decision.

Big deal. Darnold bounced back beautifully.

Is this being negative? Am I failing the cheer test?

Whatever.


I never question you so no reason to put that on a post to me.

I have a ton of respect for you and think you’re cool as anything.

I say it’s at worst a inc but hey that’s me.

Todd ... I just did to you exactly what I attempted to spank Ricky for in the post immediately above.

The negative / cheer test comment was completely not aimed at you.

I will have to spank myself ... this time, at least, not out of fun.

Apologies.
Post #: 2300
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