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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 9:01:40 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 390
Joined: 9/30/2019
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Andrew Krammer took some heat earlier in the year for reporting that "something feels off" about the Vikings locker room this year.

I suspect there was a lot of vets that saw this in camp and practice and were wondering what they signed up for.
Jefferson wasting the primer of his career on a "developmental" guy.

This is isn't Payton Manning going to a rebuilding squad.

Even with the roster flaws, Management clearly felt they could win this year, and JJ could handle it. That was obviously a gross, negligent view.

I predicted the Lions road game would be close (did not think we'd win). I don't want be doomsday guy, but man this week it feels like the train may come off the tracks. This just feels like one of these 35-3 games where JJ struggles in outdoor weather against an acutal good pass D on the road, and they kind of implode. Packers at home, they've been kind of underperforming lately and they just put it together.

We see the tension between JJ and his WRs boil over.

Hope I'm wrong

Post #: 1301

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 9:09:54 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 390
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

Man I dunno, when you watch the behind view on the TD it was way late. Thankfully the CB slipped or it likely would have been the 3rd INT of the game.
It's even like any success with JJ is a little bit fraudulent.

Bears defense was one of the worst in the league

Home environment in dome, against a bottom league D. Hard to believe how bad the offense was really.

Post #: 1302

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 9:26:28 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20817
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Man I dunno, when you watch the behind view on the TD it was way late. Thankfully the CB slipped or it likely would have been the 3rd INT of the game.
It's even like any success with JJ is a little bit fraudulent.

Bears defense was one of the worst in the league

Home environment in dome, against a bottom league D. Hard to believe how bad the offense was really.

I see a project 4th rounder at best. Oh well. Time to throw the kitchen sink at him for the rest of the season. If he shows improvement great.

Post #: 1303

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:07:30 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing.

Post #: 1304

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:14:03 AM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2096
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: online

As an Ohio State fan, JJM might become my greatest tormenter as a football fan.

If our OLine had been healthy while Wentz was starting I think Wentz might be lighting up the scoreboard. A healthy Wentz puts up 300+ yards and 3 TD+ today.

But JJM has that knack to deliver when it counts, it's inexplicable after what we saw from the 1st quarter until the final drive. Can't blame KOC, and the quality drive starting runs. Lets have JJM take his lumps, unfortunate for the veterans that are in their primes in win now mode.

Post #: 1305

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:19:02 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 390
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing.

FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE
Wilfs expected to win this year
Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans
Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft
They dont think extensions will matter

Post #: 1306

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:22:33 AM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 14232
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

Our young QB is playing like…a young QB. Shocking.

Of course, the big problem has been the accuracy. Is that something that can be fixed? Possibly. Accuracy issues can have several causes. Just to name a few: getting on the same page with receivers developing chemistry and timing with them, developing better touch on the balls, just plain too much adrenaline causing balls to sail 10 feet over receivers heads, lack of pass protection or at least being able to get clear of pressure enough to make a clean throw, bad decisions. JJ has experienced all of these. They can all be worked on.

But of course, the most troubling possibility is, just lack of physical ability to do it. Does this apply in JJ’s case? I don’t know. I still don’t think so. I’m still in his camp for now. I’ve said that it might take until 2027 before he’s decent. That would be fine. Now whether the timing was right to take that time to develop a potential franchise quarterback is a whole other question. I don’t know the answer to that either.

< Message edited by Karl Juhnke -- 11/17/2025 10:23:52 AM >

_____________________________

“Happy Birthday — and may every day be another wonderful secret”

Post #: 1307

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:41:28 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing.

Kwesi has zero ability to synchronize big FA contracts, spending, the timing of draft picks, etc. That stuff doesn't even register with him. It's all scattershot, and he just buys whatever he can whenever he can. A lack of strategy, discussed two years ago.

Post #: 1308

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:48:03 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

As an Ohio State fan, JJM might become my greatest tormenter as a football fan.

If our OLine had been healthy while Wentz was starting I think Wentz might be lighting up the scoreboard. A healthy Wentz puts up 300+ yards and 3 TD+ today.

But JJM has that knack to deliver when it counts, it's inexplicable after what we saw from the 1st quarter until the final drive. Can't blame KOC, and the quality drive starting runs. Lets have JJM take his lumps, unfortunate for the veterans that are in their primes in win now mode.

Tough shit for them, like Jefferson with his precious yards. In two playoff games he has 0 TDs and 105 receiving yards. Anthony Carter surpassed both of those stats with just one punt return and one catch when he singlehandedly secured two consecutive playoff wins... while not slipping on the field.

And we went 5-2 without JJ in 2023 when he had his hamstring injury.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/17/2025 11:02:15 AM >

Post #: 1309

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 10:56:04 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing.

FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE
Wilfs expected to win this year
Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans
Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft
They dont think extensions will matter

Fire them, but the Wilfs are delusional.

Kwesi has already come full circle in that he has to jettison expensive, overvalued contracts. Hargrove, Allen, Hockenson, Kelly (?). Hell, Harrison Smith is STILL around. And he tossed away a 4th to get Thielen in order to 'save the season'.

Post #: 1310

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 11:04:06 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20817
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

As an Ohio State fan, JJM might become my greatest tormenter as a football fan.

If our OLine had been healthy while Wentz was starting I think Wentz might be lighting up the scoreboard. A healthy Wentz puts up 300+ yards and 3 TD+ today.

But JJM has that knack to deliver when it counts, it's inexplicable after what we saw from the 1st quarter until the final drive. Can't blame KOC, and the quality drive starting runs. Lets have JJM take his lumps, unfortunate for the veterans that are in their primes in win now mode.

Tough shit for them, like Jefferson with his precious yards. In two playoff games he has 0 TDs and 105 receiving yards. Anthony Carter surpassed that with one punt return and one catch when he singlehandedly secured two consecutive playoff wins... while not slipping on the field.

And we went 5-2 without JJ in 2023 when he had his hamstring injury.

Bingo! Jefferson isn't going to be what reels in wins for us. Not even close. Honestly he gets shut down in the big games and really doesn't have a nose for the endzone. He shouldn't even be a factor when figuring out the qb situation.

Post #: 1311

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 11:13:56 AM

David Levine

Posts: 79761
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

I'm still amazed they don't use JJ like Peyton uses Nix, of roll outs and short easy throws.

They cover up some of his deficiencies, KOC covers up none of JJs.

KOC says they gotta see what they got, but he loses his confidence, good luck

I think it's because Nix's strong suit is quick game.

JJM's supposedly is/was medium middle of the field passes.
KOC may be calling a game suited to JJM's "strengths"... which is doubly concerning.
I had a LOT of issues with playcalling against the Ravens.
I thought KOC called a really good game today.

I did too. I thought we got a little pass happy at times, but the balance was better. He just needs to trust the running game a bit more - especially with how effective its been the past 2 weeks.

We had targets wide open all over the field and at every depth. An accurate QB probably puts up 40 points.

Also, so many drops. I wonder if JJ throws a touch to catch ball? Way too much mustard on it, placement always at least a little off.

There is definitely a ton of talent in him, but he looks like a guy that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Post #: 1312

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 11:19:28 AM

Lars

Posts: 11474
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From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

I am a JJM fan and and biased - readily admitted.

What I saw yesterday was pretty bad. He missed several throws badly.

His decision making seems to be better, but the mechanics were off. He has the arm talent, so hopefully that can be corrected. As noted by many others, he is young and only has a few starts We have to keep playing him and see what we have. If he continues to play poorly, then we have our answer. It is too soon to tell now, however. Lots of the other young QB in the league have not looked good after a few starts. I would even suggest that the great Caleb Williams did not play great yesterday and made a number of poor throws. His ability to avoid sacks and get some non-calls on OL holding helped him not have really horrific numbers.

I am not sold on KOC. I don't care for his playcalling and I'm not sure he is the QB whisperer to develop a young QB, VS maximize production from a vet who has been housebroken in the NFL already. His schtick of whispering to JJM is wearing thin.

And like I said, I like JJM a lot and his leadership and accountability, but the continued going to the other players and saying "hang in there, I've got your back, rah rah" stuff is also wearing thin. Play better.

The WR and and Hockenson dropping passes is not a way to win games. These are supposedly one of the top group of "skill players" in the NFL. Catch the ****ing ball.

Some whiffy-shitty tackling - like the one to Loveland on 3rd and long....

Defense let them off the hook on several long down/distance plays.

Taking the ball rather than deferring was dumb and an emotional decision. "Let's go out there with our offense and show them how great we are!" Moron.

That KO return....WTF....that ending was so Vikings-esque.....

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Post #: 1313

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 11:23:13 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

Rebuilt, true. But I thought they worked on that.

Perhaps he is seeing ghosts and thinks things are happening faster than they really are, so he resorts to select originally bad fundamentals.

He's in a Catch-22 he has to overcome. Defenses are coming after him. He has to make them pay for doing so to get them off his back, but it's difficult to do.

Post #: 1314

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 11:30:49 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Our young QB is playing like…a young QB. Shocking.

Of course, the big problem has been the accuracy. Is that something that can be fixed? Possibly. Accuracy issues can have several causes. Just to name a few: getting on the same page with receivers developing chemistry and timing with them, developing better touch on the balls, just plain too much adrenaline causing balls to sail 10 feet over receivers heads, lack of pass protection or at least being able to get clear of pressure enough to make a clean throw, bad decisions. JJ has experienced all of these. They can all be worked on.

But of course, the most troubling possibility is, just lack of physical ability to do it. Does this apply in JJ’s case? I don’t know. I still don’t think so. I’m still in his camp for now. I’ve said that it might take until 2027 before he’s decent. That would be fine. Now whether the timing was right to take that time to develop a potential franchise quarterback is a whole other question. I don’t know the answer to that either.

Moreover, it might take until 2027 before the regime knows what they have. Nowadays, NFL teams don't wait too long. Two years of playing is enough or more than enough time to make the decision.

Ponder started ~ game 5 of his first year. He started the rest of year one, all of year two, plus the majority of his 3rd year. He was in and out that 3rd year.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/17/2025 11:36:58 AM >

Post #: 1315

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 11:58:50 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 390
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

Some guys do, some guys don’t fix the mechanics

Aaron Rogers and Josh Allen did

Tim Tebow and Anthony Richardson did not

To this point KOC and Mcown have not gotten him to change

Time is ticking

< Message edited by Arlowe84 -- 11/17/2025 12:00:03 PM >

Post #: 1316

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 12:11:48 PM

David Levine

Posts: 79761
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Some guys do, some guys don’t fix the mechanics

Aaron Rogers and Josh Allen did

Tim Tebow and Anthony Richardson did not

To this point KOC and Mcown have not gotten him to change

Time is ticking

For a more recent one, just look to Drake Maye. The Patriots have reworked quite a bit of his mechanics and he's now in the argument for best QB in the league.

Which leads to 2 important questions:

1) Would he be having the same success here under KOC and McCown?
2) Can we hire Ashton Grant away from NE?

Post #: 1317

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 12:34:45 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 15746
Status: offline

Did anyone watch Darnold, or goofy, or Mahomes, or Christ any other “ great” QB play .. at all? Yesterday..?

You think a rookie.. in his fifth nfl start. Was “ ponderesque”..

When do the spergn Wynn “ comparisons start..

“ it’s been TWO YYEARS.. HE CANT STAY HEALTHY!! ..”

He is 22…

He is playing against the best usa football players in the country, most of whom are in there late 20’s and early 30’s and in their sporting athlete prime.

I swear t god..

The doomers are what drives people from these football threads..
Anyone trying to be positive, gets shouted down by the constant ( decades long losing battle cry) of the “ WIN NOW!! BRING IN any PROVEN TO BE ALMOST GOOD VETERAN!!”

Over.. and over.. and over..

Five ****ing games…

Now your all experts on development of QB’s ?

Footwork and touch.. slide to open throwing lanes..

“ he should know all that immediately “. After 5 games.. has only seen,in person, on the field, 1/8 of the teams in the league…..

“ hE SUcKs!…CuT him!”

Y’all need to hope he sucks balls the rest of the year so we can draft “ another”

Instant savior…

Where’ are all the trash talking Caleb Williams , goobers at??

Where’s all those J Hebert, 10/18/81.. 0/1 fanboys?

Sam Darnold?
29/44/ 279.. 0 tds.. 4 ints… loser!

Patrick Maholms?
29/45 246.. 1/1 loser…

It’s okay for Reid and Harbaugh to call 40+ pass plays when behind.. right?

Bipolar fanbase..

Sore losers..

HE IS A ****ING ROOKIE..

NOT A HOF eligible VETERAN!

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 11/17/2025 12:36:38 PM >

Post #: 1318

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 12:39:34 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 15746
Status: offline

We are not even a good TEAM…

BUT.. it’s always.. always.. ENTIRELY the QB fault...

Not receivers who act like they get paid to be tossed gentle marshmallows, 45 feet down field like a game of “ dad catch” and then just drop the ball like it has spikes on it…

Not coach, not st coach, not OL coach, not DB coach, not DC coach..

Always The QB!

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 11/17/2025 12:50:36 PM >

Post #: 1319

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:20:34 PM

marty

Posts: 13585
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I blame the HC on the loss yesterday, the QB put the team in a position to win.

Even if the Bears didn't get a big return, 50 seconds to get a FG, put the game strongly in the Bears' favor in today's NFL.

One run play after the Nailor 1st down, puts the Vikings in the driver's seat with the clock. 2 run plays probably would have led to victory, but I prefer more shots (chances) to pass to the end zone, or to get another 1st down.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1320

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:25:34 PM

marty

Posts: 13585
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Also, so many drops. I wonder if JJ throws a touch to catch ball? Way too much mustard on it, placement always at least a little off.

Tom Brady talked about it during the telecast, said several of the passes just needed more touch, some arc, don't just throw all lasers, sometimes a softer pass that just leads the WR, instead of the well placed rocket into tight coverage, those are hard to catch.

Brett Favre started out throwing mostly lasers, and he learned to throw more catchable passes by his 2nd year, won a Super Bowl after the Dallas dynasty started faltering.

Favre also continued to throw lots of lasers in his career, which made for some great clutch plays, but also led to some overconfidence, and INTs in playoff games.

< Message edited by marty -- 11/17/2025 1:27:08 PM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1321

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:40:12 PM

Lars

Posts: 11474
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Did anyone watch Darnold, or goofy, or Mahomes, or Christ any other “ great” QB play .. at all? Yesterday..?

You think a rookie.. in his fifth nfl start. Was “ ponderesque”..

When do the spergn Wynn “ comparisons start..

“ it’s been TWO YYEARS.. HE CANT STAY HEALTHY!! ..”

He is 22…

He is playing against the best usa football players in the country, most of whom are in there late 20’s and early 30’s and in their sporting athlete prime.

I swear t god..

The doomers are what drives people from these football threads..
Anyone trying to be positive, gets shouted down by the constant ( decades long losing battle cry) of the “ WIN NOW!! BRING IN any PROVEN TO BE ALMOST GOOD VETERAN!!”

Over.. and over.. and over..

Five ****ing games…

Now your all experts on development of QB’s ?

Footwork and touch.. slide to open throwing lanes..

“ he should know all that immediately “. After 5 games.. has only seen,in person, on the field, 1/8 of the teams in the league…..

“ hE SUcKs!…CuT him!”

Y’all need to hope he sucks balls the rest of the year so we can draft “ another”

Instant savior…

Where’ are all the trash talking Caleb Williams , goobers at??

Where’s all those J Hebert, 10/18/81.. 0/1 fanboys?

Sam Darnold?
29/44/ 279.. 0 tds.. 4 ints… loser!

Patrick Maholms?
29/45 246.. 1/1 loser…

It’s okay for Reid and Harbaugh to call 40+ pass plays when behind.. right?

Bipolar fanbase..

Sore losers..

HE IS A ****ING ROOKIE..

NOT A HOF eligible VETERAN!

Dan - you are ON FIRE today! Right on, man!!

_____________________________

<this space for rent>

Post #: 1322

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:40:41 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 14232
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I blame the HC on the loss yesterday, the QB put the team in a position to win.

Even if the Bears didn't get a big return, 50 seconds to get a FG, put the game strongly in the Bears' favor in today's NFL.

One run play after the Nailor 1st down, puts the Vikings in the driver's seat with the clock. 2 run plays probably would have led to victory, but I prefer more shots (chances) to pass to the end zone, or to get another 1st down.

I don’t fault them for scoring too soon. When you’re down a TD you score any way you can, and don’t worry about working down the clock until maybe you’re 1st and goal. Before that, scoring a TD is far from a given so get it any way you can.

_____________________________

“Happy Birthday — and may every day be another wonderful secret”

Post #: 1323

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:45:27 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Some guys do, some guys don’t fix the mechanics

Aaron Rogers and Josh Allen did

Tim Tebow and Anthony Richardson did not

To this point KOC and Mcown have not gotten him to change

Time is ticking

For a more recent one, just look to Drake Maye. The Patriots have reworked quite a bit of his mechanics and he's now in the argument for best QB in the league.

Which leads to 2 important questions:

1) Would he be having the same success here under KOC and McCown?
2) Can we hire Ashton Grant away from NE?

Don't know if Drake Maye is like his brother Luke, but when Luke Maye was playing b-ball for the North Carolina Tar Heels he was cold-blooded. Nothing phased him. Ice in his veins.

It helps tremendously when a young QB can tone things down mentally. He can incorporate what he was taught. JJM just naturally seems to be on speed on the sidelines, who knows where his headspace is when under duress on the field.

Post #: 1324

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:47:35 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 46043
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

JJ made some absolutely putrid throws to be sure. The drops were drops. You're paid millions of dollars to catch the ball. Catch the damn ball! They are not all going to be perfect.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1325