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RE: General Vikes Talkk

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:47:50 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I blame the HC on the loss yesterday, the QB put the team in a position to win.

Even if the Bears didn't get a big return, 50 seconds to get a FG, put the game strongly in the Bears' favor in today's NFL.

One run play after the Nailor 1st down, puts the Vikings in the driver's seat with the clock. 2 run plays probably would have led to victory, but I prefer more shots (chances) to pass to the end zone, or to get another 1st down.


I don’t fault them for scoring too soon. When you’re down a TD you score any way you can, and don’t worry about working down the clock until maybe you’re 1st and goal. Before that, scoring a TD is far from a given so get it any way you can.


He's continuing this perfect world narrative. Job #1 is to score a TD. Somewhere in the 4th quarter we had only run nine plays on the Bears side of the field! We had scored 10 points up to that point all game. An anemic offense that was not even close to deciding to dictate WHEN to score.

AND, the Bears returned the ball to the Minnesota 40! They didn't need many yards at all (if any), and ended up gaining 9 yards on runs before kicking. If they were faced with less time, a short pass to the sideline takes just 4 seconds max.

AND they had all three timeouts to counter any 'extra' plays we ran. Were we going to be so precise that we would make them burn all their timeouts? Two of them? One extra play certainly would NOT have "put the Vikings in the drivers seat". The Bears call timeout and would have had 45 seconds instead of 50. Or 40 seconds if they used two of their three timeouts.

Ultimately, after the TD they needed 8 seconds to return the ball (based on the actual time used), and as desired as little as 4 seconds for a pass before trotting out for the FG. Plenty of time... actually too much time! AND they would not have used even one timeout as long as they got OOB. AND actually they had enough time to spike it to stop the clock!

In short, say we run two extra plays and somehow score on the next play. Bears get the ball with 40 seconds and 1 timeout. Bears return it to the Vikings 40 with 32 seconds remaining. They have many options. Up to three chances to complete a sideline pass. Or run. Or pass to the middle of the field. Or run, spike the ball, and create another play. Etc, etc. Call timeout as required, to include maybe burning the clock to prevent us from getting the ball! Bring out the kicker. Kick the winning FG.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/17/2025 3:35:06 PM >
Post #: 1326
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:51:29 PM   
Rob Viking

 

Posts: 2096
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Also, so many drops. I wonder if JJ throws a touch to catch ball? Way too much mustard on it, placement always at least a little off.

Tom Brady talked about it during the telecast, said several of the passes just needed more touch, some arc, don't just throw all lasers, sometimes a softer pass that just leads the WR, instead of the well placed rocket into tight coverage, those are hard to catch.

Brett Favre started out throwing mostly lasers, and he learned to throw more catchable passes by his 2nd year, won a Super Bowl after the Dallas dynasty started faltering.

Favre also continued to throw lots of lasers in his career, which made for some great clutch plays, but also led to some overconfidence, and INTs in playoff games.


This is true, but two of his biggest INTs for GB were anything but lasers in OT losses to Philly and the Giants.

JJM does need to work on that. He may have that ability, and I do think touched is something that can be worked on. The game is too fast for him right now and he's throwing fast balls to compensate. While there were some drops, notably by Addison, the constant fast balls are making it difficult for the receivers to build any confidence or get into a rhythm. JJM basically went without a completion for 2 quarters.
Post #: 1327
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 1:55:05 PM   
Rob Viking

 

Posts: 2096
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: online 		The Bears also had some egregious drops, notably by Moore. And a missed FG as well.

Poorly officiated game as well. Countless missed holding calls, an obvious missed facemask on Redmond. Another shoutout to Redmond, that dude has been a revelation this year, arguably their best player this season on D.
Post #: 1328
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 2:00:46 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

JJ made some absolutely putrid throws to be sure. The drops were drops. You're paid millions of dollars to catch the ball. Catch the damn ball! They are not all going to be perfect.


That's like Brady's wife over heard in the hotel saying Tom can't catch the balls too!
Post #: 1329
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 2:55:17 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 79764
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		O’Connell, 4-6 in his fourth season as the Vikings’ coach and first with J.J. McCarthy as his starter, has offered comfort for his quarterback, pushing back against those who suggest these early games foreshadow trouble. After McCarthy struggled again Sunday, missing wide-open receivers with regularity, O’Connell suggested in the most generous terms imaginable that his QB might have failed to maximize opportunities.

“Obviously, you feel certain things when you’re calling things, seeing coverages kind of express themselves and you think maybe there are some opps out there,” O’Connell said when asked about McCarthy’s accuracy, “but I always have to really evaluate it from the standpoint of what it looked like on the tape.”

When O'Connell does study the tape, he'll see a frustrated Jefferson failing to reach for a pass so errant, it sailed over the receiver's head. He'll also see two Bears defenders so eager to pick off one underthrown ball, they collided with sufficient force to send one of them to the sideline for a stint.

O'Connell said he was "proud" of the team's run game, felt good about the pass protection and thought the team was a couple "pitches and catches" away from possibly prevailing. In other words ...

"The receivers are visually frustrated, and they are open all over the tape," another opposing coach said heading into Sunday. "All of them — (Jalen) Nailor, (Jordan) Addison, (Justin) Jefferson, the tight end (T.J. Hockenson). That should be a Cincinnati offense, but all you hear from Minnesota is about how rosy and great it is there. What I see is a quarterback who feels like he is really frustrating the play caller."

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6813907/2025/11/17/caleb-williams-jj-mccarthy-bears-vikings/
Post #: 1330
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:00:15 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 79764
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Takeaway No. 1: The panic gene is part of Darnold’s DNA until he proves otherwise.

Darnold took nine sacks against the Rams in the playoffs last season. Those were not all his fault, of course, but they fed the narrative surrounding his big-game readiness. Darnold took no sacks Sunday, but this was his third career game with exactly zero touchdown passes and four picks, more than anyone else since 2000 (there have been 56 such games total).

“Sam is just going to have that in him for life,” one veteran coach said. “He will play great. He will play good. Then he is going to have those plays. The problem is, when you get established as a playoff team, everyone is scared to death that is going to happen.”

A different coach flipped through Darnold’s interceptions this season and saw a quarterback who holds the ball too long and/or plays hero ball under duress.

On the first interception Sunday, which leads the highlight package above, this coach said: “Here, he thinks he is Aaron Rodgers. He is going to fall away and do a wrist flick. At least he made the tackle.”

On the second interception, featured above: “Trying to hit the speed out, and he underthrows it. He is holding the ball. You gotta throw it.”

On the third interception: “Jittery. Fiddling with the ball. He stares it down, and the safety jumps all over it.”

On the fourth interception: “Just complete panic. No reason to throw this. We are jumping like Roger Staubach throwing to Golden Richards.”

As the other coach put it: “I don’t think anyone is coaching jump passes anymore.”

Opponents are clearly aware of Darnold’s tendencies.

“The rush contains him, and he wants to get rid of the ball, and he’s flinching up,” said Rams safety Kam Kinchens, who snagged the first and third interceptions. “He don’t want to get sacked. He’s just trying to get the ball out of his hands, so that’s when I knew there was an opportunity.”

Darnold will have to live with this narrative until he disproves it.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6813579/2025/11/17/sam-darnold-interceptions-rams-seahawks-pick-six/
Post #: 1331
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:19:06 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20819
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Did anyone watch Darnold, or goofy, or Mahomes, or Christ any other “ great” QB play .. at all? Yesterday..?



You think a rookie.. in his fifth nfl start. Was “ ponderesque”..

When do the spergn Wynn “ comparisons start..

“ it’s been TWO YYEARS.. HE CANT STAY HEALTHY!! ..”


He is 22…

He is playing against the best usa football players in the country, most of whom are in there late 20’s and early 30’s and in their sporting athlete prime.

I swear t god..

The doomers are what drives people from these football threads..
Anyone trying to be positive, gets shouted down by the constant ( decades long losing battle cry) of the “ WIN NOW!! BRING IN any PROVEN TO BE ALMOST GOOD VETERAN!!”

Over.. and over.. and over..

Five ****ing games…

Now your all experts on development of QB’s ?

Footwork and touch.. slide to open throwing lanes..

“ he should know all that immediately “. After 5 games.. has only seen,in person, on the field, 1/8 of the teams in the league…..

“ hE SUcKs!…CuT him!”


Y’all need to hope he sucks balls the rest of the year so we can draft “ another”

Instant savior…

Where’ are all the trash talking Caleb Williams , goobers at??

Where’s all those J Hebert, 10/18/81.. 0/1 fanboys?

Sam Darnold?
29/44/ 279.. 0 tds.. 4 ints… loser!

Patrick Maholms?
29/45 246.. 1/1 loser…

It’s okay for Reid and Harbaugh to call 40+ pass plays when behind.. right?

Bipolar fanbase..

Sore losers..

HE IS A ****ING ROOKIE..

NOT A HOF eligible VETERAN!

Spin it however you want but right now he's having trouble hitting wide open receivers even by college standards.
Post #: 1332
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:22:40 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline 		For the "drivers seat" scenario to really work and get KOC out of Marty's doghouse, rather than pass for the TD we would have had to:

- Run three plays whereby the clock keeps running (assume Chi uses their three timeouts).
- Get a 1st down with one of those plays, ideally on the third play.
- Call a run or complete a pass between the goal line and the 5 yard line to keep the clock running.
- Call our second timeout to stop the clock with say 15 seconds left.
- Either score or use our last timeout to stop the clock with say 10 seconds left.
- Score a TD.
- Just ensure the TD is not scored with more than about 10 seconds on the clock (8 seconds for the return play say 2 seconds for the FG attempt).
Post #: 1333
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:29:04 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline 		“Obviously, you feel certain things when you’re calling things, seeing coverages kind of express themselves and you think maybe there are some opps out there,” O’Connell said when asked about McCarthy’s accuracy,

A big dish of word salad for Kwesi:

“Obviously, you feel certain things when you’re evaluating things, seeing the board kind of express itself and you think maybe there are some opps out there,” Adofo-Mensah said when asked about his lack of draft acumen,
Post #: 1334
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:30:06 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19920
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		The fact that we were leading with 50 seconds to go after that horrific display of passing offense is just mind blowing. Just shows that the Bears aint all that either.
Post #: 1335
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:33:49 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19920
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.
Post #: 1336
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:35:50 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 79764
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?
Post #: 1337
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:36:28 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The fact that we were leading with 50 seconds to go after that horrific display of passing offense is just mind blowing. Just shows that the Bears aint all that either.


Exactly. They are shitty.
Post #: 1338
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:38:06 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19920
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?



Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself".
Post #: 1339
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:39:57 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19920
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		They also showed the Addison drop down the middle again. That was a brutal drop That pass was perfect.
Post #: 1340
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:40:54 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20819
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?



Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself".

If he can't make 20 yard passes we're cooked. I thought the playcalling was actually very good yesterday.
Post #: 1341
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:42:00 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?


They had to fill air time and came up with a hail mary to cover those 45 seconds before the commercial "break". Half serious.
Post #: 1342
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:44:22 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?



Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself".


So half the length of the usable field is no-go territory.

Why not go Tarvaris Jackson and instead cut off half the WIDTH of the field?

Or both. Just work the short left quadrant.
Post #: 1343
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/17/2025 3:46:49 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?



Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself".

If he can't make 20 yard passes we're cooked. I thought the playcalling was actually very good yesterday.


But he can make those passes. And others. Hopefully he's somewhere in the nadir of his career.
Post #: 1344
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:47:27 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19920
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?



Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself".


So half the length of the usable field is no-go territory.

Why not go Tarvaris Jackson and instead cut off half the WIDTH of the field?

Or both. Just work the short left quadrant.



Yeah, you said it. They just fill content. The part that got me to post that though was the fact that Orlovsky (sp?) said he watched every throw good and bad and couldn't find a mechanical issue to explain it.
Post #: 1345
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 3:56:07 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

NFL Live just broke it down and they are just as puzzled as we are. They said that even on his egregiously bad throws, his mechanics are sound. They had no answer but concluded it was KOC's playcalling is putting him in bad positions and they need to help him better cover up this issue until they figure it out.


How is it a playcalling issue when he's just wildly missing open targets all game long?



Shorten the passing scheme and stop trying for the home run ball was the suggestion. I think the exact quote was "protect him from himself".


So half the length of the usable field is no-go territory.

Why not go Tarvaris Jackson and instead cut off half the WIDTH of the field?

Or both. Just work the short left quadrant.



Yeah, you said it. They just fill content. The part that got me to post that though was the fact that Orlovsky (sp?) said he watched every throw good and bad and couldn't find a mechanical issue to explain it.


When the producer yells into the crew's earpieces "30 seconds people!" they start thinking come on Dan we need yet another off the wall take right this second. And the dude delivers!

Those morning shows are similar. Stephen A is expected to chew up five innings. Rex Ryan/Jeff Saturday/Etc are the middle relievers. Some others are in there for 0.2 innings. And Dan O. is the fireball closer that nails the allotted time.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/17/2025 4:07:43 PM >
Post #: 1346
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 4:04:29 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 30391
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing.


FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE
Wilfs expected to win this year
Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans
Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft
They dont think extensions will matter


I totally disagree with them.
KAM put together this team but SOS plays a part. I see Smith, TJ, Hargrave, and maybe ONeil gone. 2-3 window.
You need to keep playing JJ. We played Ponder for 3 years and he never showed the arm talent or comback mojo JJ has.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 1347
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 4:05:54 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 30391
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Andrew Krammer took some heat earlier in the year for reporting that "something feels off" about the Vikings locker room this year.

I suspect there was a lot of vets that saw this in camp and practice and were wondering what they signed up for.
Jefferson wasting the primer of his career on a "developmental" guy.

This is isn't Payton Manning going to a rebuilding squad.

Even with the roster flaws, Management clearly felt they could win this year, and JJ could handle it. That was obviously a gross, negligent view.

I predicted the Lions road game would be close (did not think we'd win). I don't want be doomsday guy, but man this week it feels like the train may come off the tracks. This just feels like one of these 35-3 games where JJ struggles in outdoor weather against an acutal good pass D on the road, and they kind of implode. Packers at home, they've been kind of underperforming lately and they just put it together.

We see the tension between JJ and his WRs boil over.

Hope I'm wrong


That is BS....One year that JJ doesn't get 2000 yards doesn't mean his prime is ruined.

Yes there were 4-5 badly thrown balls but also 4-5 catchable balls dropped.....

The week before same thing....Jefferson played horrible.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/17/2025 4:08:20 PM >

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 1348
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 4:10:53 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

The whole decision making in the offseason is a real head scratcher when you look back. I was as excited as anyone with the way they spent but, when you step back and really look at it, it was foolish. Of course, hindsight and all that but man. It reenforces just how bad KAM is this GM-ing thing.


FWIW Skor North they think KAM and Grigson wii be fired at YE
Wilfs expected to win this year
Lots of money spent but real head scratcher on QB plans
Wilfs won’t want them running an extremely important draft
They dont think extensions will matter


I totally disagree with them.
KAM put together this team but SOS plays a part. I see Smith, TJ, Hargrave, and maybe ONeil gone. 2-3 window.
You need to keep playing JJ. We played Ponder for 3 years and he never showed the arm talent or comback mojo JJ has.



You'll see here that SOS is only somewhat to the high side: https://sports.yahoo.com/article/nfl-draft-2026-current-draft-123000409.html

And much of that is explained by two games against the "7-3" Bears, who are a shitty team.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/17/2025 4:20:24 PM >
Post #: 1349
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/17/2025 4:18:42 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 31483
Status: offline 		Justin Jeffersons commercial to TD ratio is 3.5:1

Hell, his weight of bling on the field in pounds to TD ratio is 1:1 (teeth, ears, necklaces, charm bracelets, shoes)
Post #: 1350
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