RE: General Vikes Talkk

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talkk

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: Rob Viking, nfrosty

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talkk

Page: << < prev 49 50 [51] 52 53 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/14/2025 2:45:13 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

Regardless of who "your" guy is, I think we can all agree on 1 thing. JJM has to stay healthy. He's been limited with another injury all week. This time to his throwing hand. I'm not sure if he's a bit fragile (maybe due to his age? Like he's still a bit of a kid.) or just has had bad luck.

Whatever it is we CANNOT go into the offseason with question marks on him. We have to see enough, this season, to see if he's the guy or not.

Post #: 1251

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/14/2025 3:10:30 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 46043
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Regardless of who "your" guy is, I think we can all agree on 1 thing. JJM has to stay healthy. He's been limited with another injury all week. This time to his throwing hand. I'm not sure if he's a bit fragile (maybe due to his age? Like he's still a bit of a kid.) or just has had bad luck.

Whatever it is we CANNOT go into the offseason with question marks on him. We have to see enough, this season, to see if he's the guy or not.

Yes, it's really frustrating. McCarthy has been available for 4 out of 22 games in his career. There were no guarantees with JJ going into the year. We were supposed to find out what we had and what kind of progress he would make. We're 9 games into the season and no closer to any answers.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1252

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 8:13:33 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18108
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I was listening to a Purple Daily podcast this morning and they brought up a stat that just blew my mind. They cited a company that charted every team in the league and their success rate based on the personnel formations. There was a possible 300 combos to chart.

We run 70% 11 personnel and are 298 for success out of that 300.

WTF is KOC doing? We "upgraded" the OLine and brought in Mason and he's still this pass happy when it's clearly not working? He's famous for his "teams fail young qb's more than young qb's fail teams" and yet....he's doing exactly that.

There is also a graph on situational play calling where O'Connell is slotted in as last in the league.

He makes DePhillippo look like a ground n pound OC.

O'Connell appears to want to throw the football 48 times a game no matter what. JJM's accuracy last week steadily dropped after the first 20 passes. We went shopping this off season and brought in 3 new starting olineman and a bruiser RB so we could run the ball and ease the new qb in. Looks to me like O'Connel and O'Connell alone is failing him.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1253

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 10:26:33 AM

marty

Posts: 13585
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Looking at the success of Tom Brady, he used mostly dink and dunk, and running the ball against decent defenses. Would usually air it out more against the mediocre to poor defenses in the regular season. Going against a good Pittsburgh defense, Brady would use mostly dink and dunk, and then hit them occasionally with a deep pass, which he would throw right on target.

Watching a ton of Packer games living in Wisconsin, Brett Favre did a lot of dink and dunk, and then would throw up a prayer once in a while that many times got PI. He wasn't as accurate as prime Aaron Rodgers at deep balls. Rodgers got too reliant on deep balls, and might have gotten a 2nd ring if he had developed a great short game like Favre, as he didn't throw a ton of INTs like Favre.

Kurt Warner threw a lot of deep balls with the Rams, but most of them were early in the season, and he didn't complete a lot of them in the playoffs. You have to get rid of the ball quickly against playoff defenses, and you usually have to run the ball on them.

KOC seems to approach every week like we're playing a weak defense, and wants to keep airing it out on them, hoping the offense will light it up, that there won't be any sacks or negative plays. Instead we should be developing a good dink and dunk game, along with lots of running, only occasionally throw deep, and use McCarthy's ability to run the ball on occasion to keep defenses honest, a la Patrick Mahomes.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1254

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 11:16:33 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I was listening to a Purple Daily podcast this morning and they brought up a stat that just blew my mind. They cited a company that charted every team in the league and their success rate based on the personnel formations. There was a possible 300 combos to chart.

We run 70% 11 personnel and are 298 for success out of that 300.

WTF is KOC doing? We "upgraded" the OLine and brought in Mason and he's still this pass happy when it's clearly not working? He's famous for his "teams fail young qb's more than young qb's fail teams" and yet....he's doing exactly that.

There is also a graph on situational play calling where O'Connell is slotted in as last in the league.

He makes DePhillippo look like a ground n pound OC.

O'Connell appears to want to throw the football 48 times a game no matter what. JJM's accuracy last week steadily dropped after the first 20 passes. We went shopping this off season and brought in 3 new starting olineman and a bruiser RB so we could run the ball and ease the new qb in. Looks to me like O'Connel and O'Connell alone is failing him.

Yup. And, what makes it worse.....

the same podcast charted this season on our 3rd/4th and 3 or less 'success'. My numbers may be off a bit because I'm going off of memory but we were 6 of 7 when we run and 0 for 14 when passing. It's just mindboggling that he's that stubborn.

Post #: 1255

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 11:21:16 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6146
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Feels a little bit like frustrated former QB KOC, who never got the chance to air it out in his short, non-descript nfl ‘career’ … is trying to reach back on something he didn’t get to do for himself.

He is the former high school stud athlete, now pear-shaped kids soccer coach - ranting instructions from the sideline, never having actually played soccer.

Post #: 1256

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 11:25:59 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Feels a little bit like frustrated former QB KOC, who never got the chance to air it out in his short, non-descript nfl ‘career’ … is trying to reach back on something he didn’t get to do for himself.

He is the former high school stud athlete, now pear-shaped kids soccer coach - ranting instructions from the sideline, never having actually played soccer.

What makes it so frustrating is that every move they made in the offseason, on offense, suggested he finally got it through his skull. We need to RUN the ball more. Stats show we are actually good at it and he still has a first year guy slinging it 48 times a game that's not a blowout.

Post #: 1257

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 12:10:45 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6146
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Feels a little bit like frustrated former QB KOC, who never got the chance to air it out in his short, non-descript nfl ‘career’ … is trying to reach back on something he didn’t get to do for himself.

He is the former high school stud athlete, now pear-shaped kids soccer coach - ranting instructions from the sideline, never having actually played soccer.

What makes it so frustrating is that every move they made in the offseason, on offense, suggested he finally got it through his skull. We need to RUN the ball more. Stats show we are actually good at it and he still has a first year guy slinging it 48 times a game that's not a blowout.

Yeah I agree, the offseason seemed really solid … though in retrospect, the changes / upgrades seem less now to build a better, more physical running game than a more potent play action.

With a QB just now having his first baby tooth coming in. Preposterous.

Also, building a more physical roster from the acutely dinged and worn around the edges, only works on paper.

It would help to have a GM who is more than just a well paid gopher/sounding board.

A little less collaboration please and a little more accountability.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 11/15/2025 2:34:44 PM >

Post #: 1258

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 1:20:21 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18108
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Feels a little bit like frustrated former QB KOC, who never got the chance to air it out in his short, non-descript nfl ‘career’ … is trying to reach back on something he didn’t get to do for himself.

He is the former high school stud athlete, now pear-shaped kids soccer coach - ranting instructions from the sideline, never having actually played soccer.

What makes it so frustrating is that every move they made in the offseason, on offense, suggested he finally got it through his skull. We need to RUN the ball more. Stats show we are actually good at it and he still has a first year guy slinging it 48 times a game that's not a blowout.

Even in the Philly game he had Wentz dinged shoulder and all attempt 48 passes. Even fully healthy Wentz isn't a guy you want throwing it that many times unless you want several turnovers. Which he obliged.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1259

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 3:16:56 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I was listening to a Purple Daily podcast this morning and they brought up a stat that just blew my mind. They cited a company that charted every team in the league and their success rate based on the personnel formations. There was a possible 300 combos to chart.

We run 70% 11 personnel and are 298 for success out of that 300.

WTF is KOC doing? We "upgraded" the OLine and brought in Mason and he's still this pass happy when it's clearly not working? He's famous for his "teams fail young qb's more than young qb's fail teams" and yet....he's doing exactly that.

There is also a graph on situational play calling where O'Connell is slotted in as last in the league.

He makes DePhillippo look like a ground n pound OC.

O'Connell appears to want to throw the football 48 times a game no matter what. JJM's accuracy last week steadily dropped after the first 20 passes. We went shopping this off season and brought in 3 new starting olineman and a bruiser RB so we could run the ball and ease the new qb in. Looks to me like O'Connel and O'Connell alone is failing him.

Yup. And, what makes it worse.....

the same podcast charted this season on our 3rd/4th and 3 or less 'success'. My numbers may be off a bit because I'm going off of memory but we were 6 of 7 when we run and 0 for 14 when passing. It's just mindboggling that he's that stubborn.

Need 3 yards? That's Leroy Hoard territory.

Post #: 1260

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/15/2025 5:29:19 PM

dontplaymista

Posts: 5
Joined: 11/12/2025
Status: offline

Agreed we need a different playcaller, I've basically given up on KOC in that regard. Abandoning the run in the ravens game when we were averaging over 5 YPC was simply mind boggling.

Post #: 1261

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 9:21:19 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

Looking at the play-by-play was interesting (numbers don't line up exactly with team stats)

First half
- 9 rushes, 26 yards. 3 ypc.
- 10 pass attempts, 130 yards. 10 ypa.
- The passing game was doing great until the latter part of the 2nd quarter (interception, 5 yd pass, incomplete, incomplete... an early indicator of things to come).

Second half. An absolute flip on most of the first half
- 9 rushes, 94 yards. 9.5 ypc.
- 27 pass attempts, 115 yards. 4.25 ypa. False starts not included. 17 pass attempts in the 4th quarter.
- Interception. There were two instances of 3 consecutive incompletions. Three instances of 2 consecutive incompletions. The bulk of the false starts. Sack.

KOC kept passing in the second half apparently oblivious to it's futility that started late in the first half. And it got worse. 17 attempts in the 4th? The score was 19-13 to start the 4th. You'd have thought we were down by 30! Meanwhile, the running game was kicking ass right in front of his eyes. YPC with the first three rushes in the second half: 17, 5, 13. Hello... McFly?

A clear case of having blinders on and probably an ego run amok. He must have locked into some weird short-term memory thing where he was replaying the glory of most of the first half and thought yes, pass. Must pass. Pass, pass. I am the pass master. I know this because people say so.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/16/2025 9:41:04 AM >

Post #: 1262

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 3:33:52 PM

marty

Posts: 13585
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

McCarthy has a lot to work on, needs to make the easy throws. His play caller could make things easier on him by calling plays like Ben Johnson did for Caleb, easy throws to start the game, lots of dink and dunk, and plenty of running. McCarthy also needs to be given the freedom to run once in awhile to keep defenses honest.

Sam Darnold is off to a rough start against the Rams, throwing an INT on his 1st drive. We will see if he settles down better playing for Seattle.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1263

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 4:06:15 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9823
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
offensive time of possession:

vikings - 23 minutes
bears - 37 minutes

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1264

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 4:30:55 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

Too many terrible throws
Too many drops
Too many missed tackles
Our big KR negated by ANOTHER penalty
Theirs was clean

game over

Post #: 1265

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 4:40:23 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McCarthy has a lot to work on, needs to make the easy throws. His play caller could make things easier on him by calling plays like Ben Johnson did for Caleb, easy throws to start the game, lots of dink and dunk, and plenty of running. McCarthy also needs to be given the freedom to run once in awhile to keep defenses honest.

Sam Darnold is off to a rough start against the Rams, throwing an INT on his 1st drive. We will see if he settles down better playing for Seattle.

3 picks in his own half already today. 2 blue screen of death throws

updated

< Message edited by Jeff Jesser -- 11/16/2025 5:19:02 PM >

Post #: 1266

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 5:32:48 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19915
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McCarthy has a lot to work on, needs to make the easy throws. His play caller could make things easier on him by calling plays like Ben Johnson did for Caleb, easy throws to start the game, lots of dink and dunk, and plenty of running. McCarthy also needs to be given the freedom to run once in awhile to keep defenses honest.

Sam Darnold is off to a rough start against the Rams, throwing an INT on his 1st drive. We will see if he settles down better playing for Seattle.

4 picks in his own half already today. 2 blue screen of death throws

updated again!

Post #: 1267

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 5:36:39 PM

nfrosty

Posts: 43
Joined: 4/27/2015
From: Carson City, NV
Status: online

McCarthy is looking like a very poor draft choice, but drafting poorly seems to be the Vikings MO. I always thought Bo Nix would have been a better choice. Watching Nix play Kansas City today throwing quick pinpoint accurate passes with touch made me think about what could have been. Too soon to write McCarthy off but I think it may takes a long time for him to become an average NFL starting QB if ever.

Post #: 1268

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 6:15:50 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

As an aside only, Hockenson make Kelce look like Usain Bolt. Look at Kelce's TD. THAT is what a high priced TE does, but he is getting $19 million this year in te last year of his contract. Hock meanwhile is owed $46 million the next two years. He has to go.

When is the last time TJ Hockenson shook aside a defender, let alone barreled over one and ran for mega yards or to a TD? Part of a terrifying offensive quartet? Please.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Post #: 1269

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 6:23:20 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nfrosty

McCarthy is looking like a very poor draft choice, but drafting poorly seems to be the Vikings MO. I always thought Bo Nix would have been a better choice. Watching Nix play Kansas City today throwing quick pinpoint accurate passes with touch made me think about what could have been. Too soon to write McCarthy off but I think it may takes a long time for him to become an average NFL starting QB if ever.

There was nothing in his first 5 games to suggest Bo Nix was anything. Granted those games were better than JJM's first five.

What could have been? Pinpoint? Den could still win, but Nix is overthrowing receivers in the 2nd half almost as bad as JJM was earlier.

Edit: And Nix makes a very nice pass well within FG range. There I go scrounging around with AFC QBs

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/16/2025 6:37:23 PM >

Post #: 1270

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 6:26:43 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31472
Status: offline

Not saying JJM didn't shit the bed today. If it's not the low point, it better be pretty darn close.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/16/2025 6:27:57 PM >

Post #: 1271

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 6:42:39 PM

David Levine

Posts: 79761
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Why couldn't we have played today's version of Lamar Jackson last game?

14/25, 193, 0 TD, 2 INT. 4 Carries for 10 yards.

They only won today because Shedeur played badly enough in relief of Gabriel to make you forget about JJ for a while...

Post #: 1272

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 6:53:51 PM

beo

Posts: 2526
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: nfrosty

McCarthy is looking like a very poor draft choice, but drafting poorly seems to be the Vikings MO. I always thought Bo Nix would have been a better choice. Watching Nix play Kansas City today throwing quick pinpoint accurate passes with touch made me think about what could have been. Too soon to write McCarthy off but I think it may takes a long time for him to become an average NFL starting QB if ever.

There was nothing in his first 5 games to suggest Bo Nix was anything. Granted those games were better than JJM's first five.

What could have been? Pinpoint? Den could still win, but Nix is overthrowing receivers in the 2nd half almost as bad as JJM was earlier.

Edit: And Nix makes a very nice pass well within FG range. There I go scrounging around with AFC QBs

Bo Nix had a 60 yard passing game in his first 5.

McCarthy could well be a bust... but it's so hard to say until they have games under their belt.
He has the arm.
I think he does ok at reading the field.
But he was Josh Freeman today... TURRIBLE!

Post #: 1273

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 7:26:38 PM

marty

Posts: 13585
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

4 INTs for Darnold in an important game for possible home field playoff advantage, doesn't look good for him, but he did put his team in a position to win the game at the end, his supporting cast might be stronger in Seattle.

I have feeling if Seattle were in the same position as Minnesota was after the Nailor 1st down at about the 18 yard line with 50 seconds to play, they would have run the ball the next play. I don't think Chicago would have called a timeout, they probably would have hoped their defense would hold, and the Vikings would run out of time.

I believe running the ball even once would have put the Vikings in the driver's seat to win the game, and Brady realized it. It is the difference between KOC and someone like Brady who knows how to win Championships. Maybe this is something KOC can still learn, at least the Vikings made an effort to run the ball more today.

You run the ball on 1st down after the Nailor catch, and you can run the clock down to 25 seconds, and you likely have 3 tries to get a TD, and if you have a Championship level offense, you will get the TD. The Vikings showed they have a good enough offense by getting the TD, but not the smarts to think about the importance of the clock in that situation. It's possible the Vikings surprised the Bears a little bit by going for the TD on 1st down, the element of surprise, as Ben Johnson probably didn't think KOC would be dumb enough to let the Bears have 50 seconds to get a game winning FG.

< Message edited by marty -- 11/16/2025 7:27:48 PM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1274

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/16/2025 7:34:16 PM

beo

Posts: 2526
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

4 INTs for Darnold in an important game for possible home field playoff advantage, doesn't look good for him, but he did put his team in a position to win the game at the end, his supporting cast might be stronger in Seattle.

I have feeling if Seattle were in the same position as Minnesota was after the Nailor 1st down at about the 18 yard line with 50 seconds to play, they would have run the ball the next play. I don't think Chicago would have called a timeout, they probably would have hoped their defense would hold, and the Vikings would run out of time.

I believe running the ball even once would have put the Vikings in the driver's seat to win the game, and Brady realized it. It is the difference between KOC and someone like Brady who knows how to win Championships. Maybe this is something KOC can still learn, at least the Vikings made an effort to run the ball more today.

You run the ball on 1st down after the Nailor catch, and you can run the clock down to 25 seconds, and you likely have 3 tries to get a TD, and if you have a Championship level offense, you will get the TD. The Vikings showed they have a good enough offense by getting the TD, but not the smarts to think about the importance of the clock in that situation. It's possible the Vikings surprised the Bears a little bit by going for the TD on 1st down, the element of surprise, as Ben Johnson probably didn't think KOC would be dumb enough to let the Bears have 50 seconds to get a game winning FG.

The big return killed them.
Bears had 3 timesouts... I was of the opinion you should make them burn 1 or 2 but ultimately it wouldn't matter with the big return.

JJM early play killed them... basic wide open passes and he wasn't close.
Drops compounded the issue.

Post #: 1275