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RE: MLB General Information PT 4

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:40:51 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Agreed, Stacey, on all of it as usual. Not a big fan of the Russell/Samardzija deal either. Russell is just so good. Good deal for both sides really. Oakland buys some time to get their stud young pitchers back next year. Sox bide some time for their talent coming.

And I also am not a big Cespedes guy. He's exciting, but is very overrated. And Beane knows that. Though he figures to hit pretty well in Fenway. A's are clearly all in, and no one in the AL can match up with that overall staff now. The way Vogt's hitting probably made this deal possible.

I'm catching A's/Twins next weekend for a couple of games in Oakland so it will be fun to see.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 7/31/2014 9:41:55 AM >

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:42:36 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Cespedes isn't THAT good.

He's 29. He's about as good as he will be. Good, not great.

A career .262 hitter.


This. OPS of .760ish this year. Nothing special from a LF'er. Willingham is hitting better than him.

Steven Vogt is OPS'ing .911 and is on their bench. No longer.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 7/31/2014 9:44:05 AM >

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:42:59 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63640
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:45:18 AM   
Stacey King


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.


Cespedes is on the books for about 10-11M in 2015, then a FA
Post #: 2854
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:45:52 AM   
twinsfan


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Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		Cespedes career OPS+ 119. I guess that's not very good.

Lester career ERA+ 120. I guess that's really great.

Consider that Cespedes is under team control beyond this year and Lester is definitely moving on, I don't like the deal for the A's.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:46:12 AM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.


Cespedes is on the books for about 10-11M in 2015, then a FA

A bargain.

_____________________________

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:47:04 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.


With arbitration, the A's probably weren't keeping Cespedes after next season anyway as he just wouldn't be worth it. So essentially you're trading 8 months of Cespedes (a "decent" LF'er) for 2 months of Lester, who's one of the best pitchers in the game. And getting a replacement bat in Gomes and more time for Vogt in the lineup. I do that deal.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:47:50 AM   
Stacey King


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.


Cespedes is on the books for about 10-11M in 2015, then a FA

A bargain.



Just not the biggest Cespedes fan. I like the move for the A's.
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:48:16 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.


Cespedes is on the books for about 10-11M in 2015, then a FA

A bargain.


On what planet is that a bargain for what he does? Again, Willingham has hit about as good as him this year. And he doesn't really have room for growth. He's 29 next season.

I see Stacey beat me to this; we are in stereo today.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:48:55 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63640
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Status: offline 		Lester isn't one of the best pitchers in the game. He's having a fluke season so far. I'd be afraid of regression the rest of the season.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:49:15 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Cespedes OPS+ is 114. Willingham this year: 124. Dime a dozen guys in LF.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:50:17 AM   
Mr. Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Cespedes OPS+ is 114. Willingham this year: 124. Dime a dozen guys in LF.


I'd still take Cespedes over Willingham any day.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:50:30 AM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

No way I'd trade Cespedes for about a dozen Lester starts. If Cespedes was a free agent after this season? Then it would make more sense.


Cespedes is on the books for about 10-11M in 2015, then a FA

A bargain.


On what planet is that a bargain for what he does? Again, Willingham has hit about as good as him this year. And he doesn't really have room for growth. He's 29 next season.

I see Stacey beat me to this; we are in stereo today.

Dustin, didn't you say Radke was a bargain at $9 million per season about 8 years ago? If that's true, then Cespedes is certainly a bargain at $10 million per season 8 years later.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:50:34 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Lester isn't one of the best pitchers in the game. He's having a fluke season so far. I'd be afraid of regression the rest of the season.


He really isn't having a fluke season at all. His FIP is 2.62 and all of his peripherals are fantastic. Even pitching in Boston as a lefty. He's definitely one of the better pitchers in baseball (top 10?).

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:51:48 AM   
djskillz


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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Cespedes OPS+ is 114. Willingham this year: 124. Dime a dozen guys in LF.


I'd still take Cespedes over Willingham any day.


I would too because of defense. But not at $15M (what he'll get after 2015) vs. $7M (Willingham). He's not all that.

Matt, good starting pitcher vs. "decent" LF'er.

$10M for Cespedes isn't bad. But $15M, what he'll make after 2015, is.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:52:06 AM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 88732
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From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline 		Cespedes OPS+ is 114. Willingham this year: 124.

I'll take the normal stats over one of these. Willingham is awful this year.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:53:16 AM   
Stacey King


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Lester isn't one of the best pitchers in the game. He's having a fluke season so far. I'd be afraid of regression the rest of the season.



Veteran mentor for the A's staff once they hit the play-offs. He gets the ball in Game 1 of each series. Will not be overtaken by the moment.
Very valuable in that sense.
Post #: 2867
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:53:31 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Disagree, Ed. Cespedes isn't all that.

Also Matt, fuzzy math from the accountant. Lester's ERA+ this year is 155. And all you should care about if you're the A's is this year.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:54:02 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Cespedes' OBP is .303.

I rest my case.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:54:09 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63640
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Status: offline 		His peripherals in almost every other year are nowhere near what they are this year. His career (large sample) shows he is a good pitcher, but not great.

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:54:37 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Lester isn't one of the best pitchers in the game. He's having a fluke season so far. I'd be afraid of regression the rest of the season.



Veteran mentor for the A's staff once they hit the play-offs. He gets the ball in Game 1 of each series. Will not be overtaken by the moment.
Very valuable in that sense.


Absolutely. Plus he's a northwest guy, so he'll probably be very comfortable up there.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 2871
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:56:08 AM   
Stacey King


Posts: 7989
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Status: offline 		A's Millone to the Twins
Post #: 2872
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:57:01 AM   
Stacey King


Posts: 7989
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline 		Tommy Millone,

doesn't throw hard. # 4 starter on a bad team. # 5 on a good team, maybe.
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:57:03 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63640
Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Lester isn't one of the best pitchers in the game. He's having a fluke season so far. I'd be afraid of regression the rest of the season.



Veteran mentor for the A's staff once they hit the play-offs. He gets the ball in Game 1 of each series. Will not be overtaken by the moment.
Very valuable in that sense.

I'd take any other playoff team's #1 over Lester. Sounds like a loss to me. Fits better as a #2 or #3 on the A's staff. I'd start Kazmir #1 if I'm the A's and not think twice about it.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/31/2014 9:57:15 AM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 88732
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From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline 		Cespedes has 80Ks in 101 games. Willingham has 64 in 59 games.

I understand you like all your new-found stats. This one? I'll go with my gut. Willingham stinks. Period. He is not a better player than Cespedes.

And I'll even go Gardy on this one, his D is a huge improvement over WHam, who only DHs now in MN because he's so bad.

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