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RE: MLB General Information PT 4

 
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RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/24/2019 10:55:57 AM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/06/24/nationals-orioles-bullpen-record-home-runs

Relief pitching has reached a tipping point.
For half a century, ever since the mound was lowered in 1969, relief pitchers posted a lower ERA than starting pitchers. That no longer is true.
As managers go to bullpens earlier and earlier, and as the use of openers grows, workload is catching up to bullpens.
Relievers have a higher ERA (4.50) than starters (4.44) for the first time since 1969. Only three years ago, relievers’ ERA was almost half a run better than that of starters (3.93 to 4.34).
Bullpen ERA this year is the second worst in the past 69 years (only 2000 was worse) and the eighth worst of all time. And it’s getting worse as the workload piles up. Monthly bullpen ERA this year: 4.37 in April, 4.45 in May and 4.72 in June, making this the worst June for relievers since 1950.

How managers run a modern game is based on the premise that a phalanx of power-armed relievers is a better option than a starter facing a lineup for a third time. And so every year since 2016 managers have heaped more and more work on bullpens, hitting another record this year at an average of 3.62 innings each game. Starters are pulled after an average of just 88 pitches, down from 97 in just nine years.
Now managers (honestly, most teams’ analytics department tells a manager how to deploy his pitchers) better re-think that premise.
“Look at it this way,” said Braves first baseman Freddie Freeman. “If you bring four or five relievers into a game every night, what are the chances that one of them is going to have a bad night? Pretty good, right? And if you do use four or five relievers every night, there’s going to be an attrition factor. As hitters, we’ve gone back to the idea of ‘Let’s get into their bullpen.’”

Last week, in a 2-2 game, Atlanta manager Brian Snitker let Max Fried pitch through the sixth inning, even though he gave up three singles that inning and finished with 101 pitches.
“Even if he walked [his last batter] he was staying in,” Snitker said. “You need to learn how to pitch through trouble. We need our starting pitchers to pitch the bulk of our innings. If they do, we’re doing okay.
“I think what you’re seeing now around baseball is that a lot of elite relief arms are wearing out.”
Over the past two winters, teams spent at least $8.5 million each on 26 veteran free agent relievers. At least 19 of them can be classified as poor investments or outright busts, including David Robertson, Andrew Miller, Jeurys Familia, Joe Kelly, Cody Allen, Brandon Morrow, Tommy Hunter, Jake McGee, Wade Davis, Bryan Shaw and Luke Gregerson. Throwing power sliders and max-effort high velocity fastballs 50 to 70 games a year–not to mention all the times relievers warm up in the bullpen–is bound to take a toll.

What you have to understand is just how unusual it is to see relief pitchers faring worse than starters–and how quickly we have arrived at this strange place. Here is the ERA differential between starters and relievers just in the past 19 seasons. As you can see, relief pitching has cratered suddenly, wiping out what traditionally has been a wide gap between starters and relievers.

Here are some of the factors involved in this bullpen collapse:

1. Acceptance of openers
The Rays’ quirky experiment is now thought to be a smart way to get through a game when you don’t have a starter you trust. Two years ago there were only 133 games in which the starter did not pitch more than two innings. This year baseball has doubled that rate. Teams are on track for 269 such abbreviated starts.
The opener concept works, but the more built-in abbreviated starts a team uses the more trouble you’re in when one of your traditional starters simply doesn’t have it and that game also becomes a bullpen game. There is a compounding effect with too many short starts.
2. More pitching changes
Games last season in which a manager used at least five relievers spiked 28 percent from the previous season. That rate is down slightly this year, but already there have been more such games this year than every season from 1996-2000, smack in the Steroid Era.

3. More home runs
The rate of home runs this year is the root cause of most every trend in baseball these days. Relief pitchers are not giving up many more hits. Batting average against bullpens is .247, barely up from the past four years (when it was either .245 or .246). But bullpens are getting bulldozed with extra base hits. Check this out:

Highest Slugging Percentage Allowed by Relievers
Year
Slugging Percentage
1930
.426
2019
.421
2000
.418
1999
.417

hat’s amazing. The second-worst slugging allowed by relievers is happening right now–worse than even the Steroid Era. Relievers are on pace to give up more homers this month than any month in baseball history–breaking the record set in April of this season. And May will be the third most.
One twist to this bullpen attrition is that we are seeing more offense late in the games. ERA from innings seven through nine has jumped from 4.06 last year to 4.40 this year, the highest it has been in 19 years.
The Nationals this year have the worst eighth-inning ERA of all time (7.70). This year’s Tigers are fifth-worst (7.00).
The Orioles have the second-worst ninth-inning ERA of all time (7.71); the Rockies are sixth-worst in that inning (6.75).
This season may well be remembered as the Year of The Home Run. But this also is the Year of Bad Bullpens. The pitching model is broken. Will the game begin to adjust?



MLB apparently is not that smart when it comes to the use of pitchers and BP. Analytics by themselves are not the answer nor are the ridiculous shifts we see being deployed on the field.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.
Post #: 11451
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/24/2019 1:50:25 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39282
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN



MLB apparently is not that smart when it comes to the use of pitchers and BP. Analytics by themselves are not the answer nor are the ridiculous shifts we see being deployed on the field.


The Shifts tend to work.

What needs to happen is hitters need to start beating those shifts regularly.

Bunting for hits should become a normal activity with less than two outs push it past the pitcher and your virtually guaranteed to be on base against those shifts. Or start slapping it the other way.

I like how Rocco uses the bullpen (It would be much better if we had better pitchers out there). But there is truth in the article that more use of these bullpen arms will 1. wear them out and 2. overexpose their flaws in the long run.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 11452
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/24/2019 1:54:38 PM   
SoMnFan


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Was funny hearing Jack tell the George Brett story this weekend
Brett says to him, "wish the shift was used back when I was hitting"
To which Jack chuckled in reply … "uhhhhhhhh, kinda doubt anyone would be dumb enough to shift you, George"

Which is the story behind the whole thing, and all the angst. Until people make it NOT WORK, it's going to work. (for the most part)
Post #: 11453
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/24/2019 11:40:25 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Was funny hearing Jack tell the George Brett story this weekend
Brett says to him, "wish the shift was used back when I was hitting"
To which Jack chuckled in reply … "uhhhhhhhh, kinda doubt anyone would be dumb enough to shift you, George"

Which is the story behind the whole thing, and all the angst. Until people make it NOT WORK, it's going to work. (for the most part)



Michael Brantley is a great example of how you take advantage of the defensive shift.

If you get him deep in the count and you don't adjust your shift, he's going to make you pay.

I'm a Yankee fan, and a Boone fan, but leaving one infielder between the bags, especially against an experienced bat is ridiculous.

On the other hand, maybe and probably they are smarter than I am. Coax him into a single, at best. As opposed to hitting that short RF HR.

Overall, if you don't like the shift, beat it. If you complain about the shift, yet you employ it, shut up.
Post #: 11454
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 9:22:25 AM   
twinsfan


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Did everyone see Mazara's 505 ft HR?

https://www.mlb.com/news/nomar-mazara-s-homer-goes-505-feet

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 11455
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 11:49:00 AM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Did everyone see Mazara's 505 ft HR?

https://www.mlb.com/news/nomar-mazara-s-homer-goes-505-feet


That ball did NOT travel 505 feet. It wasn't far enough into the stands beyond the fence to come close to that distance. It was declining in angle and it was more like in the 450 foot range.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.
Post #: 11456
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 12:23:42 PM   
MDK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Did everyone see Mazara's 505 ft HR?

https://www.mlb.com/news/nomar-mazara-s-homer-goes-505-feet


Has to be an over estimation.
The eyes, which tell me it clearly wasn't 500 ft, are so much more accurate than using these silly things such as launch angle, the exit velocity, the mass of the baseball, wind velocity and resultant friction knowing air humidity and temperature and elevation and air pressure and that little thing know as Gravity.

_____________________________

2-3-1959
The day the music died
11-5-2025
The day US Democracy died
Post #: 11457
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 12:24:24 PM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Did everyone see Mazara's 505 ft HR?

https://www.mlb.com/news/nomar-mazara-s-homer-goes-505-feet


Has to be an over estimation.
The eyes, which tell me it clearly wasn't 500 ft, are so much more accurate than using these silly things such as launch angle, the exit velocity, the mass of the baseball, wind velocity and resultant friction knowing air humidity and temperature and elevation and air pressure and that little thing know as Gravity.

OK Donald.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 11458
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 12:26:28 PM   
MDK


Posts: 8647
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Did everyone see Mazara's 505 ft HR?

https://www.mlb.com/news/nomar-mazara-s-homer-goes-505-feet


Has to be an over estimation.
The eyes, which tell me it clearly wasn't 500 ft, are so much more accurate than using these silly things such as launch angle, the exit velocity, the mass of the baseball, wind velocity and resultant friction knowing air humidity and temperature and elevation and air pressure and that little thing know as Gravity.

OK Donald.

Failing to recognize sarcasm Matt? Are you becoming more and more like Sheldon as you age?

_____________________________

2-3-1959
The day the music died
11-5-2025
The day US Democracy died
Post #: 11459
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 12:29:19 PM   
twinsfan


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Don't worry - I caught the sarcasm. I just couldn't resist the urge to bring politics into it. You know me.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 11460
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 12:36:11 PM   
MDK


Posts: 8647
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Don't worry - I caught the sarcasm. I just couldn't resist the urge to bring politics into it. You know me.


But did you get the reference to Sheldon.....remember, you are a person who has yet to see the Godfather movie.

You never did say anything about my mention of you in my post to Steve L........

_____________________________

2-3-1959
The day the music died
11-5-2025
The day US Democracy died
Post #: 11461
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 12:37:14 PM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63630
Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Don't worry - I caught the sarcasm. I just couldn't resist the urge to bring politics into it. You know me.


But did you get the reference to Sheldon.....remember, you are a person who has yet to see the Godfather movie.

You never did say anything about my mention of you in my post to Steve L........

I kinda get the Sheldon reference.

I didn't understand the one in your post to Steve L, so I just let it go.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me
Post #: 11462
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/25/2019 1:00:37 PM   
MDK


Posts: 8647
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Don't worry - I caught the sarcasm. I just couldn't resist the urge to bring politics into it. You know me.


But did you get the reference to Sheldon.....remember, you are a person who has yet to see the Godfather movie.

You never did say anything about my mention of you in my post to Steve L........

I kinda get the Sheldon reference.

I didn't understand the one in your post to Steve L, so I just let it go.

Here is a hint......a movie quote.

_____________________________

2-3-1959
The day the music died
11-5-2025
The day US Democracy died
Post #: 11463
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/26/2019 1:56:19 PM   
SoMnFan


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Yanks and Red Sox trailing
Cleveland up on the Royales.
Post #: 11464
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/26/2019 2:26:40 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Don't worry - I caught the sarcasm. I just couldn't resist the urge to bring politics into it. You know me.


But did you get the reference to Sheldon.....remember, you are a person who has yet to see the Godfather movie.

You never did say anything about my mention of you in my post to Steve L........

I kinda get the Sheldon reference.

I didn't understand the one in your post to Steve L, so I just let it go.

Here is a hint......a movie quote.


Any movie quote is like talking to Matt in Kling-on Fifth Generation.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.
Post #: 11465
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/26/2019 2:35:40 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45022
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Don't worry - I caught the sarcasm. I just couldn't resist the urge to bring politics into it. You know me.


But did you get the reference to Sheldon.....


He's 8 for 23 this month.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 11466
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/26/2019 2:56:03 PM   
SoMnFan


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Yanks and Cleveland up late.
Red Sox trail late.
Post #: 11467
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 6/29/2019 8:45:29 PM   
sixthwi


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I can't believe the Indians lost back to back games to the Orioles by 13-0 scores.

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The generation who would change the world is still looking for its car keys.
Post #: 11468
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 8:19:04 AM   
SoMnFan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sixthwi

I can't believe the Indians lost back to back games to the Orioles by 13-0 scores.

Tribe is coming on!
Playing well!
Look out!

Post #: 11469
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 10:15:15 AM   
Mr. Ed


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From the "See! I told you so crowd":

Neither Harper nor Machado currently on the all-star roster for the NL

And a team 9 games under has 2 all star reps (mets)

That's so awesome

_____________________________

Escape while you can!
Post #: 11470
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 10:19:55 AM   
MDK


Posts: 8647
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

From the "See! I told you so crowd":

Neither Harper nor Machado currently on the all-star roster for the NL

And a team 9 games under has 2 all star reps (mets)

That's so awesome


Love especially the Harper contract and his performance or lack thereof.

Mets pen is pretty pathetic.

If I am noah syndergaard, I would be begging for a trade.

_____________________________

2-3-1959
The day the music died
11-5-2025
The day US Democracy died
Post #: 11471
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 10:50:06 AM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 94902
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The one thing I DID like about the AS voting .. they actually didn't just cave to the big names.
Post #: 11472
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 11:01:14 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45022
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

From the "See! I told you so crowd":

Neither Harper nor Machado currently on the all-star roster for the NL

And a team 9 games under has 2 all star reps (mets)

That's so awesome



Since you mentioned the immensely overrated Harper, I though I would update the tale of two right fielders.

Bryce Harper: .250, .368, .471, .839, 15 HR, 59 RBI 101 SO

Max Kepler: .269, .344, .548, .892, 21 HR, 56 RBI 53 SO

So far Max is out hitting and out slugging Harper, while Harper has drawn more walks and stuck out twice as much as Max. I said Philly was dumb as ass when they signed that overrated douche bag to that contract and Harper has nothing to disprove that.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 11473
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 11:03:55 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39282
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

From the "See! I told you so crowd":

Neither Harper nor Machado currently on the all-star roster for the NL

And a team 9 games under has 2 all star reps (mets)

That's so awesome



Since you mentioned the immensely overrated Harper, I though I would update the tale of two right fielders.

Bryce Harper: .250, .368, .471, .839, 15 HR, 59 RBI 101 SO

Max Kepler: .269, .344, .548, .892, 21 HR, 56 RBI 53 SO

So far Max is out hitting and out slugging Harper, while Harper has drawn more walks and stuck out twice as much as Max. I said Philly was dumb as ass when they signed that overrated douche bag to that contract and Harper has nothing to disprove that.


Plus Max can move over and play center field when need be....

Loving me some Max Kepler. That extension looks brilliant right now.
'

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 11474
RE: MLB General Information PT 4 - 7/1/2019 11:07:46 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45022
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

From the "See! I told you so crowd":

Neither Harper nor Machado currently on the all-star roster for the NL

And a team 9 games under has 2 all star reps (mets)

That's so awesome



Since you mentioned the immensely overrated Harper, I though I would update the tale of two right fielders.

Bryce Harper: .250, .368, .471, .839, 15 HR, 59 RBI 101 SO

Max Kepler: .269, .344, .548, .892, 21 HR, 56 RBI 53 SO

So far Max is out hitting and out slugging Harper, while Harper has drawn more walks and stuck out twice as much as Max. I said Philly was dumb as ass when they signed that overrated douche bag to that contract and Harper has nothing to disprove that.


Plus Max can move over and play center field when need be....

Loving me some Max Kepler. That extension looks brilliant right now.
'


Looks a lot smarter than Harper at 10X the money.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 11475
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