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RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 11:50:37 AM   
Ian Joseph


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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

Seems like the NFL is getting more and more like the NBA with a few very highly paid stars per team and a bunch of minimum wage guys to fill out the roster.
It works fine in the NBA where there are only 5 players on the court, but when it takes 22 guys to field a full team I'm not so sure how it's going to work out. Look how well it worked for Green Bay last season without Erin. In a game where one hit can end your season I just don't see that model is going to work out in the long run.....


The NBA also doesn't have a hard salary cap like the NFL does. With the television money continuing to rise, so will contracts, especially stars.

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Post #: 901
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 11:54:15 AM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

I dont see the Bears having to pay Mack as anything but a duh kind of thing. The only question will be if he gets more money than Aaron Donald.

I don't see making the deal though unless the Bears had an extension in hand.


They can. I'm not sure they could negotiate with him before the trade.

But, how hard is it to negotiate a long term contract when a team trades for you knowing they have to (and want to)? I dont see the lack of a contract extension being an issue at all.

I don't know whether they can technically negotiate with him before the trade is completed, but they could do it through the Raiders. Contract negotiations are all about leverage and making the trade without having the extension done gives Mack incredible leverage.


But, leverage isnt necessary in this instance. If I want to pay you 100 million, what difference does leverage make if that's your demand?

In theory, what youre saying makes sense. In reality, the Bears have traded for him with the universal understanding that they have to now pay him. If they weren't willing to, they wouldnt be giving up 2 first rounders.

< Message edited by Ian Joseph -- 9/1/2018 1:23:04 PM >

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RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 3:54:20 PM   
marty


Posts: 12690
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		I think it's a great deal for the Bears, he will make everybody around him better.

The Bears getting a 2nd and 5th for the Raiders 1st, if the Raiders suck, isn't too far off for what the Raiders might have given up to move up to the Bears spot.

So in a way, the Bears essentially just gave up one first rounder for Mack. The Bears will likely get one of the best LBers in the league for the next 3 years, while the Raiders get a player that has a decent chance of being a bust, and might well not do much of anything for them for 2 or 3 years.
Post #: 903
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 4:15:37 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

So in a way, the Bears essentially just gave up one first rounder for Mack


No.

They gave up 2 firsts and were able to swap a 3rd for a 2nd and a 6th for a 5th. It still cost 2 first rounders. But you won't see it, you'll dismiss this, or forget it. You have just recently said Jared Allen cost us 2 1sts when it was a 1st and 2 3rds.

Brutal.
Post #: 904
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 5:00:42 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28251
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

I dont see the Bears having to pay Mack as anything but a duh kind of thing. The only question will be if he gets more money than Aaron Donald.

I don't see making the deal though unless the Bears had an extension in hand.


They can. I'm not sure they could negotiate with him before the trade.

But, how hard is it to negotiate a long term contract when a team trades for you knowing they have to (and want to)? I dont see the lack of a contract extension being an issue at all.

I don't know whether they can technically negotiate with him before the trade is completed, but they could do it through the Raiders. Contract negotiations are all about leverage and making the trade without having the extension done gives Mack incredible leverage.


But, leverage isnt necessary in this instance. If I want to pay you 100 million, what difference does leverage make if that's your demand?

In theory, what youre saying makes sense. In reality, the Bears have traded for him with the universal understanding that they have to now pay him. If they weren't willing to, they wouldnt be giving up 2 first rounders.


And if they "have" to pay him, why wouldn't he jack up his asking price?
Post #: 905
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 5:01:54 PM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Like to what? $200 million lol?

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Post #: 906
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 5:06:43 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?


Another $20-$30M over what he was planning on asking for? $5-6M/year. Maybe he gets really greedy, sees the chance to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.
Post #: 907
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 5:10:32 PM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Hes already going to be that.

There is a theory that Mark Davis is cash poor and the Raiders traded him because they cant afford the signing bonus right now.

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Post #: 908
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 5:13:16 PM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Hes already going to be that.

There is a theory that Mark Davis is cash poor and the Raiders traded him because they cant afford the signing bonus right now.


And as I type it, they have a deal. 90 million guaranteed. 60 million signing bonus. Now the highest paid defensive player.

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Post #: 909
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 5:14:09 PM   
marty


Posts: 12690
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter

Trade official, source tells ESPN:

Bears get: Khalil Mack, a 2020 second-round round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth-round pick.

Raiders get: 2019 first-round pick, 2020 first-round pick, 2020 third-round pick, 2019 sixth-round pick.

Ok Todd, the Bears gave up a little more than I said. You could say they are swapping a 3rd for a 2nd, or you could say they gave up a 3rd, and are just moving back a little bit from their 1st to the Raiders 2nd, which might not be a lot if the Raiders minus Mack suck, and the Bears do well.

I do stand corrected, and appreciate it, facts are important, and I am sorry I was mistaken.

I was also mistakenly thinking the Vikes gave up 2 1sts for Allen, and just thought it was too bad the Vikes didn't get a future 2nd or 3rd from KC.

Sorry, I will try to be more accurate in the future, think a little more before posting, I have a lot going on right now, and am trying to read a lot of information on different topics.

< Message edited by marty -- 9/1/2018 8:55:23 PM >
Post #: 910
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 6:16:02 PM   
Dave Odle


Posts: 8145
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline 		Minor news, but interesting; 49er's RB Jerrick McKinnon feared to have an ACL tear.

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RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 8:43:04 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 912
RE: Other NFL News - 9/1/2018 9:44:31 PM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.


That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

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Hate the message, not the messenger.

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Post #: 913
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 1:11:59 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.


That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 914
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 1:23:02 AM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

_____________________________

Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

Believe.
Post #: 915
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 9:03:20 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12065
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

He's a nice fit for Bears' 3-4. Him and Floyd will give us fits this year.
Post #: 916
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 9:35:39 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

I'm sure there are many tons of people who disagree with me. A ton is nothing. It would only take ten 200 pound people disagreeing with me to be a ton. The reason I think Donald is an easily better player than Mack is he does his disrupting and sacking from the DT position where it is much harder to get the sack production.
Donald's impact is IMO much more significant than Mack's.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 917
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 9:38:39 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

He's a nice fit for Bears' 3-4. Him and Floyd will give us fits this year.

In the short term there is no question that Mack joining the Bears is bad news for the Vikings, Packers, and Lions. Hey maybe we should call them the Bad News Bears.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 918
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 9:48:20 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39798
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

I'm sure there are many tons of people who disagree with me. A ton is nothing. It would only take ten 200 pound people disagreeing with me to be a ton. The reason I think Donald is an easily better player than Mack is he does his disrupting and sacking from the DT position where it is much harder to get the sack production.
Donald's impact is IMO much more significant than Mack's.


That's an awesome line. Made me smile.
Post #: 919
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 10:20:05 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

I'm sure there are many tons of people who disagree with me. A ton is nothing. It would only take ten 200 pound people disagreeing with me to be a ton. The reason I think Donald is an easily better player than Mack is he does his disrupting and sacking from the DT position where it is much harder to get the sack production.
Donald's impact is IMO much more significant than Mack's.


That's an awesome line. Made me smile.

Thanks. Hopefully Ian takes it in good humor. Ian is right. There are certainly many who think Mack is as good as Donald. I think if you took a poll 60% would favor Donald and 40% Mack. That is just me guessing.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 920
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 10:39:10 AM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Like to what? $200 million lol?

Mack got 23.5 AAV a million more than Donald. I personally don't consider him to be on Donald's level. He also got 7 million more in guaranteed money I believe. Bears were desperate enough to give up the picks plus pay the IMO inflated contract.
I think they will regret it in the long run. Time will tell.



That's always what it was going to be. The only difference between the two contracts was which of the two players would sign first. The second was always going to be a touch higher. That's what happens when two of the best defensive players are eligible for extensions at the same time.

Mack IMO is NOT on Donald's level.


A ton of people disagree with you.

I'm sure there are many tons of people who disagree with me. A ton is nothing. It would only take ten 200 pound people disagreeing with me to be a ton. The reason I think Donald is an easily better player than Mack is he does his disrupting and sacking from the DT position where it is much harder to get the sack production.
Donald's impact is IMO much more significant than Mack's.


That's an awesome line. Made me smile.

Thanks. Hopefully Ian takes it in good humor. Ian is right. There are certainly many who think Mack is as good as Donald. I think if you took a poll 60% would favor Donald and 40% Mack. That is just me guessing.


It didnt move the needle, but not because it wasnt good humor. Rather, I'm done with this particular conversation. I, much like many, many others, believe that Khalil Mack is on par with Aaron Donald. You disagree. The end, at least for me.

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Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

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Post #: 921
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 11:33:59 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline 		As of now Cordarrelle Patterson is a top three WR for Tom Brady.

The Patriots kept just three wide receivers on their initial 53-man roster.
That number stretches to four if you include Matthew Slater, though he's mainly a special teamer. With Julian Edelman suspended for the first four games, New England will open the year with just Chris Hogan, Phillip Dorsett and Cordarrelle Patterson at wide receiver. Tom Brady still has plenty of weapons to throw to—Rob Gronkowski led the team in receiving yards last year while running backs James White and Rex Burkhead are both capable pass-catchers. But it's still possible, if not likely, that New England will address its receiver need either through free agency or via waivers. ESPN's Mike Reiss suggested the Patriots could go after former third-round pick Leonte Carroo, who was let go by Miami on Saturday. Bill Belichick's affinity for Rutgers alums is well-documented.
Sep 2 - 11:24 AM

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So let it be done."
Post #: 922
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 12:05:32 PM   
Ian Joseph


Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		They claimed two WRs, neither of which I recognize.

_____________________________

Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

Believe.
Post #: 923
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 12:17:29 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

They claimed two WRs, neither of which I recognize.

yep. I don't think either of those claims is a threat to Patterson.

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So let it be done."
Post #: 924
RE: Other NFL News - 9/2/2018 12:34:40 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33626
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline 		This one surprises me a little.
Giants waived QB Davis Webb.
New York tried to move Webb during cut-down day, but the Raiders decided to go with A.J. McCarron instead. That says a lot about Webb's standing in the league. Even so, his third round pedigree could get him some looks on waivers. New York is moving forward with fourth-round rookie Kyle Lauletta and Alex Tanney behind declining starter Eli Manning.
Source: Jordan Raanan on Twitter
Sep 2 - 1:27 PM

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 9/2/2018 12:36:26 PM >

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Post #: 925
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