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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/3/2018 11:09:48 PM

Ragnarök

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In 2017, the Minnesota Vikings ran the ball 501 times for 1,957 yards. That’s an average of 31.3 carries a game and an average of 3.91 yards per carry.

Going into the Patriots game this past Sunday, the Vikings had run the ball 240 times for 938 yards. That’s an average of 21.8 carries/game and an average of. . .3.91 yards per carry.

Sure, we know that the Vikings’ offensive line is terrible, but at least in terms of the run game, they’ve been performing at around the same level as they did last season. Actually, if you base it on yards/carry alone, the offensive line is actually better this season than it was last year. (I know that’s not the only measure of offensive line play, but it does kind of poke a hole in the normal narrative about the Vikings’ run offense.) But DeFilippo has thrown anything resembling offensive balance out the window. To what extreme has he done so?

Under Pat Shurmur in 2017, the Vikings threw 527 passes and had 501 rushing attempts. (I’m not getting into sacks or kneeldowns or any of that sort of thing.) That means that, in 1,028 offensive plays, the Vikings were at 51.3% pass plays and 48.7% run plays.
This season under John DeFilippo, through 12 games, the Vikings have thrown 491 passes and had 253 rushing attempts. So, in 744 offensive plays, the Vikings are currently at 65.9% pass and 34.1% run plays

Post #: 251

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/3/2018 11:26:35 PM

marty

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But a hard-nosed, defense oriented HC who knows how to win a SB, has won a SB, who has the demeanor to calm things where a kicker like Bailey is excelling, instead of being nervous about kicking, might be the way to go.

Harbaugh can keep the pieces on defense, get them playing more inspired, and then put someone in charge of the offense that is innovative, and he can just let them do their thing.

< Message edited by marty -- 12/3/2018 11:29:15 PM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 252

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/3/2018 11:39:16 PM

Ragnarök

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Status: offline

Revisit this... Feb 8 2018

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/268980/vikings-make-statement-hire-with-respected-offensive-mind-john-defilippo

Before DeFilippo joined on with the Eagles as the quarterbacks coach, he was the offensive coordinator with Cleveland in 2015. Balancing a duo of Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel, DeFilippo’s system yielded an offense that passed for the fourth-most yards in franchise history (4,156) and had the second-best interception percentage in the league (2.0), despite going 3-13.

One sign that points to their vote of faith in DeFilippo dates back to that 2015 season. For the first time in 29 years, the Browns combined 4,100 passing yards with 1,500 rushing yards. This past year, Minnesota’s stable of running backs rushed for 1,957 yards while Case Keenum threw for a majority of the Vikings’ 3,753 passing yards.

Maintaining that balance is a top priority for the Vikings, especially with the expected return of Dalvin Cook in time for Week 1. DeFilippo will be tasked with making sure Minnesota is as aggressive throwing the ball as it is running it.

Not so much as promised... O line? Kirk Pocket Passer style? Zimmer micro managing?

Post #: 253

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/3/2018 11:47:40 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76782
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

But a hard-nosed, defense oriented HC who knows how to win a SB, has won a SB, who has the demeanor to calm things where a kicker like Bailey is excelling, instead of being nervous about kicking, might be the way to go.

Harbaugh can keep the pieces on defense, get them playing more inspired, and then put someone in charge of the offense that is innovative, and he can just let them do their thing.

Why don't we hire Parcells then?

What has Harbaugh done since he won the SB?

(The answer is "miss the playoffs 4 of the past 5 years")

I'm also not sure I've ever heard the words "calm" and "Harbough" in the same sentence before today either...

< Message edited by David Levine -- 12/3/2018 11:49:05 PM >

Post #: 254

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 12:09:56 AM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

Some very in depth DeFilippo stuff I missed first time around in May... Interesting stuff to reflect the season on and think about what was projected and what didnt quite pan out...

http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018/05/will-defilippo-dial-cousins-vikings-season-line/

“Cousins’ gunslinger mentality shined through on third downs, where he was sixth in big-time throws yet had the fourth most turnover-worthy throws.”

Peters said the biggest difference between DeFilippo’s previous franchise QB and his new one is the ability to go off script and make a game-changing play when nothing was available originally.

“The Eagles definitely executed within the structure of the pass concept a lot of times but a good chunk of their successful third downs were Carson Wentz either getting pressured quickly or his receivers were coverage and he would get out of the pocket and throw a bomb,” Peters said. “That stuck out as the biggest difference. Plays like that on third down, that changes games. You’re a half a play away from punting and instead you scored a touchdown on an improbable play from your quarterback escaping and finding something. You can do scramble drills in practice but you don’t teach that stuff. That’s the biggest difference from that standpoint between Wentz and Kirk Cousins.”

The biggest difference from Cousins on first and second and Cousins on third down is that the play-action is taken away. He’s been one of the league’s best play-action QBs, but on third down, opponents know what’s coming, the quarterback and OC just have to beat them.

We are beating no one when we dont even throw it to the sticks on third down...

Post #: 255

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 7:29:06 AM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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Back into the 6th spot?
This game with Sea is kind of a big deal
Win this one and beat the Bears for the title would be a good come back
It could happen

Post #: 256

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 7:36:59 AM

Todd M

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I always bugged Norv for what I called cast off plays. Plays that seemed to be called when you need a second because things were surprisingly humming along. Low % plays that almost never got you anything but to another down.

But I think it stems from a Zim thing. A philosophy that wants more control. X# of plays that really only get you to the next down with time accrued to the TOP clock.

And if he has his way he will get in there more to make it more that way.

As a fan I'd rather see a team flip it almost 180 and open it up. Have lower % plays that are meant to attack. Put the hammer down. Both offense and defense. And if you can't win with what you got so be it. Forget playing the numbers press the edges.

I like Zim a lot. But I can let him go in favor of a shift.

Post #: 257

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 7:40:45 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16416
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Basketball changed with the Warriors.

Football has been changing with the rules, and this year KC officially stamped the change as 'Complete'.

How many of the head coaches of contenders were brought up on the offensive side of the ball. McVay, Reid, Payton, others?

Agree Bill. It sucks but it is what it is. We hired Zimmer about 2 years too early. Meaning, the game has changed so quickly he was simply a bad hire. It's not his fault and I loved the hire at the time. He is stuck in the past and doesn't look like he'll change.

Lets be honest here. As bad as the O was yesterday, and they were terrible at times, we tied it up. What happened after was a wash/rinse/repeat. The big money/draft has been spent on D and they let Brady walk down the field like those moving walkways at the airport. There was no resistance what so ever. Anytime we really need this D they get shredded. Did we beat up on the hapless Lions, yes.

We dominate shitty offenses. We get shredded when we need them most. it's a common problem with this team since Zimmer took over.

To be fair to the D, on that drive we had 3 #1 pick CB's on the sidelines and Marcus Sherels in the game. I agree with your overall point though, they don't come through often enough against top teams. Zimmer did not create enough pressure on Brady. Brady did through the INT one of the few times the Blitz pressured him.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 258

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 7:41:42 AM

Todd M

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Back into the 6th spot?
This game with Sea is kind of a big deal
Win this one and beat the Bears for the title would be a good come back
It could happen

For sure. It's nice to know happiness could happen and that would be an electric jolt of awesomeness.

Post #: 259

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 8:18:24 AM

Bill Jandro

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If Cook was averaging 7yds/carry Flippo should have stuck with what was working.

What bothered me most in this game was the officiating. Esp the 2 non-PI calls on those two deep shots we took. Both Theilen and Robinson were definitely interfered with. Then on NE's next possession Holton Hill is flagged for PI on a less-blatant interference call. All three incidents occurred on the same side of the field.

Couple that with all the holding penalties we could gather little momentum. It was way more bias than any game I've seen in a long time

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 12/4/2018 8:21:11 AM >

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 260

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 8:20:04 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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self delete

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 261

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 8:40:03 AM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
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12. Minnesota Vikings (6-5-1)

Week 13 ranking: 9

We're No. 1 in: Third-down defense. For a second straight season, the Vikings are leading the league in third-down stops, allowing teams to convert on just fewer than 30 percent of their attempts. This is a critical facet for Minnesota's defense in forcing its will on opponents so the offense, which has gone through ebbs and flows all season, can get back on the field and attempt to score. -- Courtney Cronin

Post #: 262

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 9:24:16 AM

JT2

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Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Run/pass, pass/run....I don't give a S. When it's 3rd and 14, down 2 TD's and you run a 2 yard slant route with your slowest WR....THAT I have a big problem with.

Yes.

When Cook is gaining 12 yards a touch in the 1st Half and only gets 4 touches in the 2nd Half, that's a problem. Run/Pass, who cares? Get him the ball in space. (FLIP)

Bad game by Capt Kirk; on that early sack that killed a drive and Aikman called a "coverage sack", both Diggs and Thielen were WIDE OPEN!

Why are we ever counting on Treadwell in big moments, let alone any moments?
Ludicrous to even have him on the field there.

Very strange approach.

However, those wishing we had Shurmur back, he did almost the exact same thing two weeks ago at Philadelphia.

Barkley had about 130 yards from scrimmage in the first half and two TD's, averaging 8 yards per carry. 5 touches in the second half, and 2 of them came on the final possession out of desperation.

Post #: 263

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 10:59:41 AM

kevinemmer

Posts: 4650
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Basketball changed with the Warriors.

Football has been changing with the rules, and this year KC officially stamped the change as 'Complete'.

How many of the head coaches of contenders were brought up on the offensive side of the ball. McVay, Reid, Payton, others?

Agree Bill. It sucks but it is what it is. We hired Zimmer about 2 years too early. Meaning, the game has changed so quickly he was simply a bad hire. It's not his fault and I loved the hire at the time. He is stuck in the past and doesn't look like he'll change.

Lets be honest here. As bad as the O was yesterday, and they were terrible at times, we tied it up. What happened after was a wash/rinse/repeat. The big money/draft has been spent on D and they let Brady walk down the field like those moving walkways at the airport. There was no resistance what so ever. Anytime we really need this D they get shredded. Did we beat up on the hapless Lions, yes.

We dominate shitty offenses. We get shredded when we need them most. it's a common problem with this team since Zimmer took over.

To be fair to the D, on that drive we had 3 #1 pick CB's on the sidelines and Marcus Sherels in the game. I agree with your overall point though, they don't come through often enough against top teams. Zimmer did not create enough pressure on Brady. Brady did through the INT one of the few times the Blitz pressured him.

I love Marcus, (on ST's) but not outside alone at CB.

C'mon Zimmer, get Kearse and Iloka out there, hell, put Harris at Corner and Kearse/Iloka in Harris' Safety spot.

That was stupid, esp for "D Guru" like Zim.

Post #: 264

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:10:11 AM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
Status: offline

I probably missed it somewhere .. but did Iloka fall off a cliff?
I anticipated that pickup helping us a great deal.
He's been the Invisible man, hasn't he?
I realize getting jettisoned from a mess like the Bengals was a red flag, but we've seen a lot of red flags work out in the past.

Post #: 265

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:13:30 AM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

I probably missed it somewhere .. but did Iloka fall off a cliff?
I anticipated that pickup helping us a great deal.
He's been the Invisible man, hasn't he?
I realize getting jettisoned from a mess like the Bengals was a red flag, but we've seen a lot of red flags work out in the past.

Maybe Zimmer put him on the Anthony-Harris-Patented-Four-Year-Development-Plan (AHPFYDP).

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 266

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:18:40 AM

SoMnFan

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I'm one of the charter members of the Marcus Sherels Fan Club .... but who in the hell puts him out on an island with a WR in a tied game?

Post #: 267

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:37:57 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38421
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

I probably missed it somewhere .. but did Iloka fall off a cliff?
I anticipated that pickup helping us a great deal.
He's been the Invisible man, hasn't he?
I realize getting jettisoned from a mess like the Bengals was a red flag, but we've seen a lot of red flags work out in the past.

Maybe Zimmer put him on the Anthony-Harris-Patented-Four-Year-Development-Plan (AHPFYDP).

Or maybe Anthony Harris is completely outplaying him in practice in every way shape and form.

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.

Post #: 268

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:39:14 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38421
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Cook was averaging 7yds/carry Flippo should have stuck with what was working.

What bothered me most in this game was the officiating. Esp the 2 non-PI calls on those two deep shots we took. Both Theilen and Robinson were definitely interfered with. Then on NE's next possession Holton Hill is flagged for PI on a less-blatant interference call. All three incidents occurred on the same side of the field.

Couple that with all the holding penalties we could gather little momentum. It was way more bias than any game I've seen in a long time

It's the AFC version of playing the Packers at Lambeau.

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.

Post #: 269

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:53:29 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Basketball changed with the Warriors.

Football has been changing with the rules, and this year KC officially stamped the change as 'Complete'.

How many of the head coaches of contenders were brought up on the offensive side of the ball. McVay, Reid, Payton, others?

Agree Bill. It sucks but it is what it is. We hired Zimmer about 2 years too early. Meaning, the game has changed so quickly he was simply a bad hire. It's not his fault and I loved the hire at the time. He is stuck in the past and doesn't look like he'll change.

Lets be honest here. As bad as the O was yesterday, and they were terrible at times, we tied it up. What happened after was a wash/rinse/repeat. The big money/draft has been spent on D and they let Brady walk down the field like those moving walkways at the airport. There was no resistance what so ever. Anytime we really need this D they get shredded. Did we beat up on the hapless Lions, yes.

We dominate shitty offenses. We get shredded when we need them most. it's a common problem with this team since Zimmer took over.

To be fair to the D, on that drive we had 3 #1 pick CB's on the sidelines and Marcus Sherels in the game. I agree with your overall point though, they don't come through often enough against top teams. Zimmer did not create enough pressure on Brady. Brady did through the INT one of the few times the Blitz pressured him.

Part of our problem seems to be we can only function with extremely high pick CBs. Other teams develop CBs; we spend a high pick, break them down, make them relearn the position, and then either sign them to huge contracts or let them go because they don't get it.

Post #: 270

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:58:18 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

I probably missed it somewhere .. but did Iloka fall off a cliff?
I anticipated that pickup helping us a great deal.
He's been the Invisible man, hasn't he?
I realize getting jettisoned from a mess like the Bengals was a red flag, but we've seen a lot of red flags work out in the past.

Maybe Zimmer put him on the Anthony-Harris-Patented-Four-Year-Development-Plan (AHPFYDP).

Sheen coming off Zim by the minute, unfortunately. From crazy long development time for DBs to Gedeon and Joseph in on passing downs to "We should have used Patterson differently" when many of us were screaming for him to be used differently, only to end up with Treadwell......

Love the guy, but he has to do better. I suspect him more than Flip or Cousins until proven otherwise at this point.....

Post #: 271

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:58:39 AM

David F.

Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

I probably missed it somewhere .. but did Iloka fall off a cliff?
I anticipated that pickup helping us a great deal.
He's been the Invisible man, hasn't he?
I realize getting jettisoned from a mess like the Bengals was a red flag, but we've seen a lot of red flags work out in the past.

Maybe Zimmer put him on the Anthony-Harris-Patented-Four-Year-Development-Plan (AHPFYDP).

Or maybe Anthony Harris is completely outplaying him in practice in every way shape and form.

And Senjejo must have been outplaying Harris too huh? I'd rather have seen Iloka on the field than Sherels.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 272

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 11:59:54 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

Noah Fant is my way-too-early choice for our first rounder, unless an OG is worthy.

Overspend on an OG in FA and take the fast TE who can also block.

Post #: 273

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 12:15:29 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16416
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: online

According to this site Sherels was in on defense for 20 snaps. Kearse had 2 and Iloka had 1. STUPID! Agree...The Iloka signing has been a head-scratcher.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/defensive-players-snap-counts

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 274

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2018 12:17:10 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76782
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

According to this site Sherels was in on defense for 20 snaps. Kearse had 2 and Iloka had 1. STUPID! Agree...The Iloka signing has been a head-scratcher.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/defensive-players-snap-counts

Especially when Kearse had some success playing CB earlier this year.

Post #: 275