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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/12/2019 4:52:36 PM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hrerikl

quote:




@billbarnwell

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Absolutely no issue with giving Adam Thielen a new deal, of course, but the Vikings are now paying two WR’s $30+ million per season, their QB $28 million per season, and their head coach wants them to run the ball more



On the surface it seems absurd. But in the end I think it comes down to having a successful running game so when the going gets tough it's something that can keep us in or win games. Time and time again we see high powered offenses stall out when they are more one dimensional.
Post #: 3751
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/12/2019 5:05:34 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39703
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Status: offline 		Everything about this team save for the OL is as good as it's been for a long time.

I still stand by the thought that there are many many eyes on the prize and enough coaching/scouting talent to shake 2 guys that can start loose from the draft/what comes available in and around it.
Post #: 3752
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/12/2019 6:03:44 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online 		Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3753
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/12/2019 6:56:27 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.

Brez must have it figured out. He's(Thielen) probably getting a big chunk of it next year.

- Cap goes up every year

- 2 of these 4 are probably gone in 2020 (Reiff, Waynes, Rhodes, Griffen)

- Last year base salary usually means nothing(either cut or re-structured)
Post #: 3754
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/12/2019 6:58:01 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28245
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.
Post #: 3755
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/12/2019 6:59:49 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33447
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.

We still get Thielen for practically free the next two years. If his production goes down how is the contract structured? Will we take on a lot of dead cap for example if we cut him before the last two years?

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So let it be done."
Post #: 3756
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 12:15:49 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Status: offline 		Where are the Vikings now with regard to cap money for 2019? I imagine they have enough for the rookies and perhaps some in case there are injuries to the team and cheaper free agents must be brought in. Is that about it, or do we have a little bit more for another free agent or two to compete in training camp. (perhaps at wide receiver or running back)

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 7:24:05 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3758
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 8:57:05 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28245
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.
Post #: 3759
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 9:13:08 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online 		Might be a team friendly ext similar to Griffins. Where there is no additional guaranteed money once it kicks in.

No point in arguing about it until the financial details are released.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3760
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 9:50:36 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Where are the Vikings now with regard to cap money for 2019? I imagine they have enough for the rookies and perhaps some in case there are injuries to the team and cheaper free agents must be brought in. Is that about it, or do we have a little bit more for another free agent or two to compete in training camp. (perhaps at wide receiver or running back)


Assuming we have the max allotment of 90 players in camp, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. That policy has been in place since 2012. And of course the contracts are contingent on the player making the team.
Post #: 3761
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 9:54:31 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.
Post #: 3762
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 9:56:26 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



So you're saying the Triangle of Authority is alive and well.
Post #: 3763
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 10:03:06 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3764
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 10:16:28 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Uh, no. Your issue was "another back loaded contract" which apparently are mortgaging our future, although admittedly you want to wait the see the contract details before arguing the point.

In any case, that would be BRZEZ. Contract terms. Key role of the capologist. Looks like you really don't understand this.

Searching here... maybe you don't think AT's new contract is warranted? Oh, no I see you wrote that he deserved it.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/13/2019 10:25:28 AM >
Post #: 3765
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 10:24:52 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Your issue was "another back loaded contract" which apparently are mortgaging our future, although admittedly you want to wait the see the contract details before arguing the point. In any case, that would be BRZEZ.

Spielman says he wants to extend a player and tells Brez to get it done.

Brez presents his numbers and Spielman executes the deal. I'm sure Brez makes Spielman aware that this will bite us in the ass later.

Point being Spielman is in charge. Not Brez.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3766
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 10:40:32 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Scenario is we go into salary cap hell and Brzez (FYI, he is our money guy) is fired. Brzez interviews for a job.

Team: What assurances are there that we won't go into cap hell.
Brzez: Wasn't my fault. Spielman kept mortgaging our future.

Exactly. Brez is just the accountant/capalogist. He isn't deciding whom to extend.



Your issue was "another back loaded contract" which apparently are mortgaging our future, although admittedly you want to wait the see the contract details before arguing the point. In any case, that would be BRZEZ.

Spielman says he wants to extend a player and tells Brez to get it done.

Brez presents his numbers and Spielman executes the deal. I'm sure Brez makes Spielman aware that this will bite us in the ass later.

Point being Spielman is in charge. Not Brez.



Okay, so Spielman essentially approves the deal. Your beef (at least here) is another presumed back-loaded contract mortgaging our future.

What should Spielman do? Not approve the deal? Tell Brzez to front load the deal even though we have no cap space?

Brzez (IMO) is among the best in the business. Unless Spielman overrides him and tells him to rework contracts, how is this Spielman's fault except in the general "the buck stops here" sense? Presuming of course they want to keep the players they are trying to sign, or do right by them.
Post #: 3767
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 10:51:43 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline 		Besides, it's easy to see so many high-dollar contracts over time (Smith, Rhodes, Joseph, Kendricks, Hunter, Diggs, Cousins, Barr, etc) and simply proclaim "our future is mortgaged".

Well here is a newsflash: the future is now. When most of these contracts were done, the future was, again.... pointed to now.

And at the time, the overwhelming concern on the board was whether we could pay all the mainstays. Last time I checked, they are all on the team.

Enjoy the possibility of the present and worry about the 'next future' later. And when you do worry later, go on SpotTrac and back up your 'we are doomed' claims with facts. My guess is a new influx of talent will be a bigger issue than cap space.
Post #: 3768
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 10:57:27 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online 		Ian Rapoport reported Thielen will receive a guaranteed $35 million.

Theilen will be 30 when deal kicks in. So we better hope he ages well.

Details of how the money is doled out are not in yet.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3769
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 11:31:19 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28245
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



So you're saying the Triangle of Authority is alive and well.


Actually no, that's what Bill J is saying.
Post #: 3770
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 11:45:34 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Ian Rapoport reported Thielen will receive a guaranteed $35 million.

Theilen will be 30 when deal kicks in. So we better hope he ages well.

Details of how the money is doled out are not in yet.


Not worried about that at all.

34/35 is not old at all for a WR that isn't totally reliant on speed.

And while he's 28 right now, he barely played his first 2 years and only has 3 heavy-load seasons in his career.
Post #: 3771
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 12:03:06 PM   
ambear

 

Posts: 4385
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: Fort Lauderdale
Status: offline 		Chris Tomasson
‏


@christomasson
19h
19 hours ago


More
Talked to cap expert Jason Fitzgerald of OverTheCap. He said it's not too hard for #Vikings to get more 2019 cap room with Adam Thielen extension. Said if his base is cut to $1 million and he gets $15M signing bonus would lower his cap number from $8.1 to $5.15M & create $3M room
Post #: 3772
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 12:12:59 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Monopoly money?

Spielman continues to mortgage our future.

Not that AT doesn't deserve it because he does. But yet another back loaded contract.


Brezinski is our cap guy.

And he takes his orders from Spielman.


Here's the thing. In the NFL, you have to pay the players. Quality players = quality money. Ain't no way around that. Spielman can't do anything about that. So it's up to Brezinski to finagle the salary cap, push money to years where there is salary cap room etc. You could also argue that Spielman takes his orders from Zimmer in terms of player acquisition/retainment, ergo Brezinski takes his orders from Zimmer, extending your logic.



So you're saying the Triangle of Authority is alive and well.


Actually no, that's what Bill J is saying.



Yeah, the post was in jest....
Post #: 3773
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 12:17:55 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ambear

Chris Tomasson
‏


@christomasson
19h
19 hours ago


More
Talked to cap expert Jason Fitzgerald of OverTheCap. He said it's not too hard for #Vikings to get more 2019 cap room with Adam Thielen extension. Said if his base is cut to $1 million and he gets $15M signing bonus would lower his cap number from $8.1 to $5.15M & create $3M room



$3M is luxury cap space! Time to blow it on a FA turd.
Post #: 3774
RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/13/2019 12:38:22 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17809
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Ian Rapoport reported Thielen will receive a guaranteed $35 million.

Theilen will be 30 when deal kicks in. So we better hope he ages well.

Details of how the money is doled out are not in yet.


Not worried about that at all.

34/35 is not old at all for a WR that isn't totally reliant on speed.

And while he's 28 right now, he barely played his first 2 years and only has 3 heavy-load seasons in his career.

Guess we're getting the bargain years right now.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3775
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