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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Ben Leber was asked his opinion on some of the under the radar roster battles. Most of the starting positions are set. (Exceptions. coming soon in another post) Let's stretch this out a bit because it's a slow time. First question: Who will get more snaps- Bower or Hercules? Leber's answer in my next post.

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Ben Leber was asked his opinion on some of the under the radar roster battles. Most of the starting positions are set. (Exceptions. coming soon in another post) Let's stretch this out a bit because it's a slow time. First question: Who will get more snaps- Bower or Hercules? Leber's answer in my next post.

I would guess neither as I don't expect either of them to make the 53.

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Ben Leber was asked his opinion on some of the under the radar roster battles. Most of the starting positions are set. (Exceptions. coming soon in another post) Let's stretch this out a bit because it's a slow time. First question: Who will get more snaps- Bower or Hercules? Leber's answer in my next post.

I would guess neither as I don't expect either of them to make the 53.

Leber likes Hercules a lot and sees him getting snaps all over the line- not just DE.

Next question. When Mike Hughes is healthy, whose snaps will he be taking from?

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Ben Leber was asked his opinion on some of the under the radar roster battles. Most of the starting positions are set. (Exceptions. coming soon in another post) Let's stretch this out a bit because it's a slow time. First question: Who will get more snaps- Bower or Hercules? Leber's answer in my next post.

I would guess neither as I don't expect either of them to make the 53.

Leber likes Hercules a lot and sees him getting snaps all over the line- not just DE.

Next question. When Mike Hughes is healthy, whose snaps will he be taking from?

Hope so. Gotta root for my Maui bruddah.

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

All Kendricks did was agree to have base salary converted to a signing bonus. He gets the same money, just gets it in a different way. Rudolph is in a completely different boat. He has no guaranteed money coming to him. That's why a multi year deal is needed. He agrees to lower his cap hit this year and in return gets some guaranteed money in future years.

One problem with the whole thing is that the NFL seems to have very little in terms of enforceable tampering policies. Multiple teams have contacted Rudolph's agent. That's why he knows other teams are interested.

so the deal that goessling is proposing doesn't work...even if his salary is converted to a signing bonus it's paid this season - thus applicable to this year's cap...i wonder if he was thinking that rudy would get all the money originally due, but because it's in the form of a bonus the cap hit would be deferred until next year....

if there's no 2020 contract between the vikes and rudy than you cannot defer bonus money into that year....


Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Say the Vikings gave Kyle Rudolph a league-minimum $930K base salary in 2019, converted the remaining $6.345M of his salary to a signing bonus and kept his bonuses ($250K roster, $100K workout) intact. Same amount of cash for Rudolph, with ~$5M in cap saving for Vikings.

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Who does Mike Hughes steal snaps from when he is deemed healthy? Leber's answer. Rhodes is not the same player from the past and Hughes will be coming in to spell Rhodes before the others.

Next question: Who will get more snaps- Gedeon or Cameron Smith?

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

All Kendricks did was agree to have base salary converted to a signing bonus. He gets the same money, just gets it in a different way. Rudolph is in a completely different boat. He has no guaranteed money coming to him. That's why a multi year deal is needed. He agrees to lower his cap hit this year and in return gets some guaranteed money in future years.

One problem with the whole thing is that the NFL seems to have very little in terms of enforceable tampering policies. Multiple teams have contacted Rudolph's agent. That's why he knows other teams are interested.

so the deal that goessling is proposing doesn't work...even if his salary is converted to a signing bonus it's paid this season - thus applicable to this year's cap...i wonder if he was thinking that rudy would get all the money originally due, but because it's in the form of a bonus the cap hit would be deferred until next year....

if there's no 2020 contract between the vikes and rudy than you cannot defer bonus money into that year....


Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Say the Vikings gave Kyle Rudolph a league-minimum $930K base salary in 2019, converted the remaining $6.345M of his salary to a signing bonus and kept his bonuses ($250K roster, $100K workout) intact. Same amount of cash for Rudolph, with ~$5M in cap saving for Vikings.

I thought the space comes because the signing bonus is spread among all the previous years of the contract. Fancy accounting and all......

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Who does Mike Hughes steal snaps from when he is deemed healthy? Leber's answer. Rhodes is not the same player from the past and Hughes will be coming in to spell Rhodes before the others.

Next question: Who will get more snaps- Gedeon or Cameron Smith?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Who does Mike Hughes steal snaps from when he is deemed healthy? Leber's answer. Rhodes is not the same player from the past and Hughes will be coming in to spell Rhodes before the others.

Next question: Who will get more snaps- Gedeon or Cameron Smith?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Who does Mike Hughes steal snaps from when he is deemed healthy? Leber's answer. Rhodes is not the same player from the past and Hughes will be coming in to spell Rhodes before the others.

Next question: Who will get more snaps- Gedeon or Cameron Smith?

I really hope Hughes can get fully recovered and take one of the top two CB spots. He was a first round pick after all. I know Waynes was also, but to me he is very replaceable.

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Who does Mike Hughes steal snaps from when he is deemed healthy? Leber's answer. Rhodes is not the same player from the past and Hughes will be coming in to spell Rhodes before the others.

Next question: Who will get more snaps- Gedeon or Cameron Smith?

was hughes playing nickel mostly before his injury?...everywhere, maybe...right now i see him as alexander's replacement at nickel - but that might not happen until next year....

we could very easily lose alexander and waynes next season...leaving rhodes, hill and hughes - and our 1st/2nd round pick next year...i wonder if hughes will be playable this preseason?...perhaps we could trade mac and extend waynes' cap hit down for a couple of years....

we still need to draft an ot, te, safety - early in next year's draft...it would be nice to be pretty solid at cb going into the draft next season....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

On the question of who will get more snaps- Griffen or Weatherly, Leber said that he sees Weatherly as the better run defender and Griffen as the better pass rusher. So therefore he speculated that Weatherly will play more on rushing downs and Griffen will be more of a passing downs guy, although, as we know, depending on the game situation especially late in the game even first and second downs can be passing downs. He sees both being on the field a lot, which may be a good thing as they stay a bit fresher throughout the game. Anyway, in answering the question he said that if he had to choose he would choose Weatherly getting more snaps.

Next question: Will Samia crack the starting lineup on either side of the line?

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I feel sometimes I'm talking to myself, but I have more to share.

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

On the question of who will get more snaps- Griffen or Weatherly, Leber said that he sees Weatherly as the better run defender and Griffen as the better pass rusher. So therefore he speculated that Weatherly will play more on rushing downs and Griffen will be more of a passing downs guy, although, as we know, depending on the game situation especially late in the game even first and second downs can be passing downs. He sees both being on the field a lot, which may be a good thing as they stay a bit fresher throughout the game. Anyway, in answering the question he said that if he had to choose he would choose Weatherly getting more snaps.

Next question: Will Samia crack the starting lineup on either side of the line?

Another question is will Hunter line up over the LT?

Grif and Weatherly can share snaps on the other side.

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ORIGINAL: odin

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ORIGINAL: Last Word Troll

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: bohumm



Community college elite logic = I'll never admit I'm wrong and/or I'll never let go of this bone

I've committed one crime vs I've committed ten crimes without context: ten crimes is worse. If the one crime is murder and the ten crimes are shoplifting: one crime is worse. Injecting detail when there's none = nonsense.

Original point: "To me 63-625 is more impressive than 50-600". That is all. There is no underlying detail. 599 of the 600 yards were not on one catch. The 63 did not yield more first downs than the 50 because THERE WERE NO ACTUAL CATCHES IN THIS COMPARISON.

This is about one poster getting his needs met (?) by manifesting online; it is not even about the relative merits of Kyle Rudolph at his current salary cap figure.

Thanks for the sanity check. I thought when I posted some actual numbers from TEs that it would show the variability in first downs.

I should have known better.

You should have.

He's the guy who tries to be right while seeking strokes and ends up the laughingstock, but at least he is our franchise laughingstock.

Still, I'd trade him for a different laughingstock plus a laughingstock to be named later.

Whatever. I had to read the post again to figure out what the hell you were talking about. I noticed the same 12 yard average on 50 for 600, but it's obvious he just threw out 50 receptions as a minimum expectation. Talk about twisting things and being DISHONEST DF. A lie is the intent to decieve and it certainly looks like your intent was to deceive. Your post makes me angry. I expect better from you.

Whatever. The OP was not lacking in either research or honesty. YOU WERE TRYING TO TWIST THINGS. The OP never said anything about 12 YPR. he just threw out some numbers for this year. should have said 60-600 so people like you wouldn't twist his meaning.


I could be wrong but I don't think you are this clueless. Were any of the stats or contract numbers posted wrong? You in letting your anti-Rudy bias cloud your judgment took a simple 50-600 hypothetical numbers for this season and Twisted it into making a false and ridiculous clain against the OP who did some very good research and was not dishonest in any way whatsoever. Now you are trying very unsuccessfully to save face. Cut your losses DF.

Show me one stat the OP posted that was wrong. The 50-600 was just a hypothetical. DF tried to twist the OP's words to discredit him in an attempt to win the RUDY war. I'm calling him out for it. CV Boot doesn't even post here and DF's attack on his character is completely wrong and uncalled for. Nobody at Daily Norseman had a problem with either his research or integrity.

Pager you make a good point but DF didn't. In defense of the OP on the 7 million thing is IIRC his base salary this year is 7.25 million and that would be somewhat reasonable to round down to 7, but better if he didn't. You found a flaw DF fabricated one.
EDIT: LMAO. I just looked it up and you and I were both wrong Pager. Rudy's base salary is $7.275 not 7.25 and total compensation for this season is $7.625 not 7.65. Close enough an honest mistake.

The value is to show how Rudy is fairly compensated according to the market and possibly a bargain. It seems that on Talk Vikes familiarity is breeding contempt as we don't appreciate him IMO like we should.

The $7.625 just shows that you were wrong like 7.275 shows I was wrong. I'm sure both of us had
good intentions. In general we should give people the benefit of the doubt. I feel DF's post was in bad faith using a cheap trick to try to win rather than honest discussion.


Good summary as well. To me 63-625 is more impressive than 50-600. I prefer the 13 additional catches at 9.9 YPR compared to less at 12.
I still believe DF acted in bad faith.


DF didn't even say anything about 50-600 which were not looked up. They were just hypothetical numbers presented that actually diminished what Rudy has been doing. The OP never said anything about Rudy getting 12 YPR. DF fabricated that. You have been fair. I don't get you supporting DF's BS but you like him better than me so I think that explains it.

Absolutely I attacked his character. He deserves it in this case. Absolutely DF attacked the OP's character either by calling him sloppy or dishonest. Neither was true based on the 12 YPR that the OP never stated. Pager pointed out how the OP did fudge his numbers rounding down on Rudy's contract. It wasn't needed as his arguments stand up just fine using the real numbers of 7.625.

Because the OP never said those were numbers that Rudy ever put up. DF FABRICATED that the OP CLAIMED Rudy got 12 YPR. DF was creating a straw man.

13 more catches at 10 rounded per catch is going to create about 7 more first downs. 63-625 is superior to 50-600.

OP never said that Rudy ever put up those numbers.

OK done discussing DF's trickery, cheap shotting or totally valid criticism. I felt he acted in very bad faith.

that's the average per catch. 10 yard receptions produce or lead to first downs most of the time. Some will be 15 some will be 5. reasonable guess 7 additional first downs. I think you are projecting those 12 additional catches adding up to the 25 yards. That isn't the way it works.

You're clearly not getting this. we aren't talking total yards we are talking yards per reception. 10*63 =630 not 730 you are correct. however it's 13 more plays at ten yards per play. about 7 more first downs.

63-625 averages 10 YPR. It only accumulates 25 additional yards but it's 13 more receptions at 10 YPR. Maybe this will help. Lets take average out. 50 catches of 12 YPC 600 YARDS. We fully agree on that right. 63 receptions at 10 YPR 630 YARDS right. 63-50 = 13 right? That makes 13 more plays of 10 yards, but only accumulating 30 additional total yards.

never said it did. IT'S 13 ADDITIONAL PLAYS of 10 yards each but you subtract the additional 2*50 from the total yards. I haven't been talking total yards here. I've been talking additional ten yard catches.


You are correct. That is not the argument. The argument is more plays at 10 ypc is better than less plays at 12 ypc. The 13 extra good plays more than makes up for less plays at a better average. You've heard of possession receivers right. Keep the chains moving. That's what I'm talking about. Yes REGIS, FINAL ANSWER.

The above dump of the last few pages of posts is in honor of Bill's previous "Pathology" compilation as a reminder of how the signal-to-noise ratio here gets seriously messed-up when it is assumed the intentionally (?) obtuse writer is sincere and leads to multiple unreadable pages. Bill's post link:

quote:

I've always wondered what pathological looks like. Ladies and gentlemen, I present Mr. Pathological (this is just one chapter of individual posts in an incessant series where he argues anything for negative strokes):

Classic!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

Read that many contracts have extension clauses built in with the team option of exercising them. Downside of course is you are moving money forward and have to pay up one day, so teams try not to use them. We did with Kendricks.

Thing is, he was quoted talking about how it is all for the team, etc. The article implied he had no choice in the matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

On the question of who will get more snaps- Griffen or Weatherly, Leber said that he sees Weatherly as the better run defender and Griffen as the better pass rusher. So therefore he speculated that Weatherly will play more on rushing downs and Griffen will be more of a passing downs guy, although, as we know, depending on the game situation especially late in the game even first and second downs can be passing downs. He sees both being on the field a lot, which may be a good thing as they stay a bit fresher throughout the game. Anyway, in answering the question he said that if he had to choose he would choose Weatherly getting more snaps.

Next question: Will Samia crack the starting lineup on either side of the line?

Another question is will Hunter line up over the LT?

Grif and Weatherly can share snaps on the other side.