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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:21:07 PM

geoffrey greitzer

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

Post #: 1451

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:22:23 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

HC 100%.

No brainer for me.

Post #: 1452

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:22:36 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19189
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

That's easy for me. I think you all know my answer.

Post #: 1453

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:26:27 PM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

I'd take the HC, but I'd choose a new GM over both of them.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 1454

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:37:51 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf both declined comment after the game

They're signing the paychecks, so I would imagine they are a little concerned with their investment, i.e., this team.

It's not even worth caring about who this team picks up until we have a staff in place that can get something out of them. Hopefully the Wilfs see it too.

I'm hoping they are having those conversations right now. They've given a lot of bright shiny objects for this head coach to play with. They gave this team the "missing link" with tens of millions spent on a QB. They've listened to a GM who is incompetent at putting together an offensive line. And they just watched their investment digress into mediocrity. They're not stupid. I'm sure they are discussing some of these same issues.

I agree. RS is like a stock broker who was managing a very wealthy client on how to spend approximately $100 million. He encouraged his client to dump about 85% of his funds into one "can't miss" investment. In four months time, $84 million spent on one pony has turned into an investment it would be difficult to get 50 cents on a dollar for the next two years.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1455

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:38:54 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

I'd take the HC, but I'd choose a new GM over both of them.

The GM who should be held in contempt for his O line mismanagement then followed up by plugging in a pocket passer behind such O line as well as the young gun OC that runs schemes that best utilize skill sets not possessed by said QB... That guy?

Post #: 1456

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:39:06 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

HC 100%.

No brainer for me.

YUP

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 1457

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:39:33 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

I'd take the HC, but I'd choose a new GM over both of them.

No reason you can't do both.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 1458

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:41:17 PM

Dave Odle

Posts: 8335
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline

It seems simple to me. He's an above average defensive coordinator who isn't effective as a HC. He wants a ground and pound offense and a stingy defense that translates into chewing the clock and keeping his defense fresh. The problem is that it grounds an offense that could be high flying and forces it to be something it's not.

_____________________________

Try using hindsight in the present.

Post #: 1459

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:41:18 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Cousins is worrisome. Did we just mortgage our future for a guy without the killer instinct? It sure looks that way. He just had no poise at all. You can't blame everything on your line. I would try really hard to draft a QB or sign a FA who can come in and lead this team if we need to bench him. Go get a real LT and leave O' Neill where he is. Then sign at least one G.

Zimmer is the problem, IMO. It doesn't matter what he says. He can't make this right because he can't run and offense and he obviously can't see eye to eye w/ an offensive coordinator. It makes me wonder what Shurmer was able to do motivationally that was different in working w/ the players and Zimmer.

I think it is time to start over. He can run the D as a coordinator or leave. Nobody would want him as a HC right now anyway.

That's the thing, the oline is so awful that it can be argued that their ineptitude is responsible for the downfall of the entire team. It's too hard to tell if Cousins sucks, Zimmer sucks, etc. because the oline is so bad. Zimmer and Spielman aren't getting fired one year removed from the NFCCC. This team needs to get the oline fixed. Once that happens we'll all be able to tel if Cousins sucks, the OC sucks, or Zim sucks, or if we fix the oline and we're actually a viable Superbowl contender. If the Vikings are mediocre again next year then I suspect RS and Zim get shown the door.

What does the oline have to do with a defense that continually gave up the score when our offense finally did something? The defense sucked when it mattered all season. Feels to me like players aren't buying in anymore.

It appeared to me as if not ONE Vikings player came prepared to play today's game on either offense or defense. The ST were so removed from the game that there was no way to really tell how their performance ranked. It almost appeared as if the Vikings were trying to lose. And make no mistake about it, this team was just as awful during the first half of the Lions game the week before until the final three minutes of the first half. And the second TD was a Hail Mary pass on the last play of the second quarter.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1460

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:41:58 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf both declined comment after the game

They're signing the paychecks, so I would imagine they are a little concerned with their investment, i.e., this team.

It's not even worth caring about who this team picks up until we have a staff in place that can get something out of them. Hopefully the Wilfs see it too.

I'm hoping they are having those conversations right now. They've given a lot of bright shiny objects for this head coach to play with. They gave this team the "missing link" with tens of millions spent on a QB. They've listened to a GM who is incompetent at putting together an offensive line. And they just watched their investment digress into mediocrity. They're not stupid. I'm sure they are discussing some of these same issues.

I agree. RS is like a stock broker who was managing a very wealthy client on how to spend approximately $100 million. He encouraged his client to dump about 85% of his funds into one "can't miss" investment. In four months time, $84 million spent on one pony has turned into an investment it would be difficult to get 50 cents on a dollar for the next two years.

I hope you do better math for your clients...

Post #: 1461

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:44:25 PM 1 votes

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf both declined comment after the game

They're signing the paychecks, so I would imagine they are a little concerned with their investment, i.e., this team.

It's not even worth caring about who this team picks up until we have a staff in place that can get something out of them. Hopefully the Wilfs see it too.

I'm hoping they are having those conversations right now. They've given a lot of bright shiny objects for this head coach to play with. They gave this team the "missing link" with tens of millions spent on a QB. They've listened to a GM who is incompetent at putting together an offensive line. And they just watched their investment digress into mediocrity. They're not stupid. I'm sure they are discussing some of these same issues.

I agree. RS is like a stock broker who was managing a very wealthy client on how to spend approximately $100 million. He encouraged his client to dump about 85% of his funds into one "can't miss" investment. In four months time, $84 million spent on one pony has turned into an investment it would be difficult to get 50 cents on a dollar for the next two years.

I hope you do better math for your clients...

What the heck does this comment mean? Explain asshole

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 1462

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:47:18 PM

Viking Rich

Posts: 3731
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Zimm walks into Speilman’s office tomorrow and says “I know it’s early but I got some tape on some defensive guys in the draft that I would hate to let slip by in first round. I need Lots of talent to look good. “

Speilman “ well ok, menards has a sale on duct tape that will be good enough for the OL.” “BTW, send Prefier up, some of these senior kickers look good, I want his opinion.”

Thanks for the laugh after a horrible game

_____________________________

Sam Darnold's Gonna Shock Us All

Post #: 1463

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 9:48:38 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russell Timmons

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Vikings owners Zygi and Mark Wilf both declined comment after the game

They're signing the paychecks, so I would imagine they are a little concerned with their investment, i.e., this team.

It's not even worth caring about who this team picks up until we have a staff in place that can get something out of them. Hopefully the Wilfs see it too.

I'm hoping they are having those conversations right now. They've given a lot of bright shiny objects for this head coach to play with. They gave this team the "missing link" with tens of millions spent on a QB. They've listened to a GM who is incompetent at putting together an offensive line. And they just watched their investment digress into mediocrity. They're not stupid. I'm sure they are discussing some of these same issues.

I agree. RS is like a stock broker who was managing a very wealthy client on how to spend approximately $100 million. He encouraged his client to dump about 85% of his funds into one "can't miss" investment. In four months time, $84 million spent on one pony has turned into an investment it would be difficult to get 50 cents on a dollar for the next two years.

I hope you do better math for your clients...

What the heck does this comment mean? Explain asshole

It means you have no idea what you're talking about. As usual.

Cousins salary is nowhere near 85% of anything salary related. Nor would it hurt us as a team if we'd just simply make smarter decisions before, during and after it.

Post #: 1464

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 10:02:53 PM 1 votes

Viking Rich

Posts: 3731
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Cousins is worrisome. Did we just mortgage our future for a guy without the killer instinct? It sure looks that way. He just had no poise at all. You can't blame everything on your line. I would try really hard to draft a QB or sign a FA who can come in and lead this team if we need to bench him. Go get a real LT and leave O' Neill where he is. Then sign at least one G.

Zimmer is the problem, IMO. It doesn't matter what he says. He can't make this right because he can't run and offense and he obviously can't see eye to eye w/ an offensive coordinator. It makes me wonder what Shurmer was able to do motivationally that was different in working w/ the players and Zimmer.

I think it is time to start over. He can run the D as a coordinator or leave. Nobody would want him as a HC right now anyway.

That's the thing, the oline is so awful that it can be argued that their ineptitude is responsible for the downfall of the entire team. It's too hard to tell if Cousins sucks, Zimmer sucks, etc. because the oline is so bad. Zimmer and Spielman aren't getting fired one year removed from the NFCCC. This team needs to get the oline fixed. Once that happens we'll all be able to tel if Cousins sucks, the OC sucks, or Zim sucks, or if we fix the oline and we're actually a viable Superbowl contender. If the Vikings are mediocre again next year then I suspect RS and Zim get shown the door.

I don't need the Oline to be addressed to know that Zimmer is constantly getting outcoached.

Yes, the Oline has issues, but Zimmer looks completely lost on the sideline.

Exhibit A: Calling for a stupid challenge on 4th and inches, wasting a TO, and nullifying a 1st down where your QB made the quick call and executed it.

Meanwhile, Zimmer is busy looking for his red hanky, completely unaware what's going on

_____________________________

Sam Darnold's Gonna Shock Us All

Post #: 1465

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 10:05:42 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77423
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking Rich

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Cousins is worrisome. Did we just mortgage our future for a guy without the killer instinct? It sure looks that way. He just had no poise at all. You can't blame everything on your line. I would try really hard to draft a QB or sign a FA who can come in and lead this team if we need to bench him. Go get a real LT and leave O' Neill where he is. Then sign at least one G.

Zimmer is the problem, IMO. It doesn't matter what he says. He can't make this right because he can't run and offense and he obviously can't see eye to eye w/ an offensive coordinator. It makes me wonder what Shurmer was able to do motivationally that was different in working w/ the players and Zimmer.

I think it is time to start over. He can run the D as a coordinator or leave. Nobody would want him as a HC right now anyway.

That's the thing, the oline is so awful that it can be argued that their ineptitude is responsible for the downfall of the entire team. It's too hard to tell if Cousins sucks, Zimmer sucks, etc. because the oline is so bad. Zimmer and Spielman aren't getting fired one year removed from the NFCCC. This team needs to get the oline fixed. Once that happens we'll all be able to tel if Cousins sucks, the OC sucks, or Zim sucks, or if we fix the oline and we're actually a viable Superbowl contender. If the Vikings are mediocre again next year then I suspect RS and Zim get shown the door.

I don't need the Oline to be addressed to know that Zimmer is constantly getting outcoached.

Yes, the Oline has issues, but Zimmer looks completely lost on the sideline.

Exhibit A: Calling for a stupid challenge on 4th and inches, wasting a TO, and nullifying a 1st down where your QB made the quick call and executed it.

Meanwhile, Zimmer is busy looking for his red hanky, completely unaware what's going on

While a lot of his decisions were suspect today, that was excellent recognition by Cousins to see the gap in the Bears DLine over our Left Guard and to quickly run the play.

Post #: 1466

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 10:10:49 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18338
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Such a huge disappointment! Talk about being owned by Chicago in 2018!

Is it true Zimmer really said to the sideline reporter coming out of the half that we needed to run the ball more?

We would love to run the ball, Boss ... but first you need to fix the OL or we'll be doing this 3 & out thing until the cows come home.

- Boy I am as guilty as anyone ignoring the fact that our OL was going to bring us down. And all the other roster spots filled with all that wonderful talent couldn't do a damn thing to stop it.

- As an untrained observer I'd say this game was 90% on the OL (which includes everyone involved in putting it together).

* My take on this mess is, I'm almost sad to say, Zimmer's persona is incapable of coexisting with an OC to the degree you need to to be successful - unless maybe you have a top 5 OL.

Post #: 1467

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 10:32:59 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

Offseason goals.

#1 Fire Spielman, hire new GM.
#2 New GM fires Zimmer and coaching staff and replaces them.
#3 Add 3 new OL.
#4 Replace Rudolph with athletic pass catching TE
#5 Find a #3 WR, Treadwell probably won't be cut due to cost, but he should be no higher than #5 and needs to play Special Teams if Active. A pity that Bebe was hurt so often. I think he could've been than quick little slot guy we needed.
#6 Retain as many of Harris, Richardson, Johnson, Barr ,Waynes as is financially feasible, probably 2 or 3 of the 5.
#7 Cut or renogatiate Sendejo (Cut), Rudolph, Griffen, Remmers, Waynes, to make above achievable. I'd probably cut all 5, but might keep Waynes, especially if Hughes won't be ready to start the season.
#8 Fill in the cracks with low cost FA's or late round picks.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 1468

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 10:47:19 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15150
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

New coach, GM, and staff. Kirk is a good to very good qb. We wrecked him by not giving him enough protection. That is a gm and coach issue, not a qb issue.

Post #: 1469

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 11:03:10 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

New coach, GM, and staff. Kirk is a good to very good qb. We wrecked him by not giving him enough protection. That is a gm and coach issue, not a qb issue.

Delusional...

I buy the fact that poor OL, bad schemes from a temp OC and all doomed us, but Kirk has some issues as a QB that need addressed too...

We did not cross the 50 until right before the half... Really? seriously?

We never beat one team this year with a winning record for the season... Kirk tends to have same issues on his resume... Its not a aberration, stats be damned, he owns some really shitty tendencies that make one wonder if he can be "great". Its a reality...

BUT nothing we can do but reshuffle the OL, hire some new coaches OC and OL and get some schemes and plays that best utilize his skill set...

Then HOPEFULLY he can prove me and the "Kirk Sucks" crowd wrong... I would LOVE to be wrong...!

Post #: 1470

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 11:27:05 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22846
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Question?
Who would you rather have?
New QB or new HC

QB

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1471

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 11:29:20 PM

bgdavis

Posts: 1957
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
Status: offline

The OLine is a root cause of many of the teams offensive woes and potentially some on the defensive side as well (forcing the D back onto the field after 3 and outs). However, the inept OLine is itself a symptom of a broader problem that stems from poor coaching and bad GM decisions.

Sadly, there's no evidence that the current GM and coaches have what it takes to correct the OLine issues. This team hasn't had a good OLine for nearly 2 decades. Expecting the current GM and coaching staff to suddenly change that trend and fix the OLine in one season seems far-fetched. Seriously, does anyone really think that Spielman, Zimmer and the other current staff have displayed an ability to build a decent OLine?

The only way I see the OLine truly being addressed starts by replacing the GM with someone who is competent at building not just an OLine, but a playoff-caliber one, and then bringing in the necessary staff that can further solidify it with proper coaching and playcalling. Until they do that, there's little chance of the OLine actually getting this fixed.

_____________________________

Heimdall kept the “ringing” horn, Gjallarhorn, which could be heard throughout heaven, earth, and the lower world; he would sound the horn to summon the gods when their enemies drew near.
(Norse mythology)

Post #: 1472

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 11:32:23 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

A new GM who can hire his choice of coach.

Ed Dodds is a name that looks intriguing. Was involved in forming SEA in their hay day and now is assistant GM at INDY.

Post #: 1473

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 11:43:27 PM 1 votes

Brad H

Posts: 22846
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

2018 Draft:
O-Line
Corner
O-Line
Tight End
O-Line
Kicker
O-Line

Let go of Waynes, Remmers, Compton, Elflein, Treadwell, Robinson and Gideon. They all suck beyond belief. That's right, Elflein sucks!

Pick up a tight end in free agency that chew gum and walk at the same time (a total upgrade over what we currently have). Cut the loser tight end with the long hair. Get a legit fullback in free agency.

Sign Nick Foles. Cut Cousins.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/30/2018 11:50:43 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1474

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/30/2018 11:45:24 PM

bgdavis

Posts: 1957
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Cedar Rapids, IA
Status: offline

If they don't clean house entirely, I'd be OK with this strategy instead:
2019: New GM, New OC. Zimmer put on win-or-else notice. Top 3 draft picks: OL, OL, OL
2020: Possible new HC depending on how we fared in 2019. Top 3 draft picks: at least 1 OL
2021+: At least 1 OL in top 3 draft picks every single year since that's how to keep replenishing an OLine and ensure it has enough developing back-ups/subs for injuries, etc.

_____________________________

Heimdall kept the “ringing” horn, Gjallarhorn, which could be heard throughout heaven, earth, and the lower world; he would sound the horn to summon the gods when their enemies drew near.
(Norse mythology)

Post #: 1475