Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums  Register  Login  My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums 

Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ  Ticket List  Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talk

 
Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: jbusse, Daniel Lee Young, kgdabom, thebigo, odin, McMurfy, Bruce Johnson
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk Page: <<   < prev  82 83 [84] 85 86   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 10:54:05 AM  1 votes
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 439
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Buckingham

You simply can't win against a good team if your offensive line sucks. Our offensive line sucks. We can't pass protect long enough to have a vertical passing game or a productive running game. All the OC in the world will agree that the only way to win is to run the ball when needed and pass protect. If you can't pass protect you have to have a quick-hitting passing game that prioritizes the QB getting rid of the ball quickly. We don't have that, for whatever reason. Cousins holds the ball, holds the ball, and runs for his life or throws a 3 yard pass to Kyle Rudolph (who is running toward his own goal line). The quick-slants and plays designed for a quick throw get batted down because our linemen don't attack the defensive linemen and Cousins throws right into the hands of the defenders.

We're going to be a QB oriented offense, so let's match what he can do with a system that works with the talent we have. A couple of new offensive linemen will make a big difference. The Colts went from a terrible OL to a a great one with one draft. We need to do the same thing.


Exactly! The Colts finally figured out that they needed to protect Luck if they wanted to have any success. Now that they've done so, the Colts look like an incredibly dangerous team.

I see no reason that Spielman can't do his job effectively and secure 1 starting FA Guard (Saffold), 1 backup G at vet minimum (Easton), 1 starting rookie Guard (Cody Ford-rd1) and 1 backup rookie Tackle (David Edwards - rd2). Couple that with a great Offensive line coach, TBD by Spielman, and we could match what the Colts did this year. If he can't achieve something along these lines, Spielman needs to be shown the door.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 2076
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 10:59:05 AM   
Pager


Posts: 8761
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cousins was looking for houses in the area during the Super Bowl Media week....pretty much means there was mutual interest.



I thought he was driving through neighborhoods to get a feel, I never read that he was "house shopping". It was while he was in MN that he found out about the Smith trade. I'd be shocked if he had already decided he was coming to MN then.

There is a report here in Denver that he/Cousins met with Mike Shanahan, I assume pretty close to that timeframe.


OC is interviewed 5 weeks and hired a month before Cousins signed. I would be surprised if he wasn't asked for input. Maybe it didn't or wouldn't have changed the outcome. I would never have signed on to a team that didn't want my input at QB as an OC.

But none of us really know timeframes or exactly what happened

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 2077
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 11:14:50 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 25203
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

I wonder if Working with a stubborn, meddling HC who is a lame duck final year guy would inhibit interests or would the future OC candidate see a chance to turn around head case but very talented Cousins and have a shot at being next HC himself?

Yes, if we bring in Machiavelli.

Otherwise, whatever OC comes in here will look forward to having a very good QB, very good skill players at WR, and RB ... and a top notch defense.


Cousins is a coach killer...

Ask John DeFilippo... he went from short list young phenom up and coming HC candidate to unemployed head scratched in matter of a month while Cousins melted down with the HC demanding more runs.,,..

No matter, the next OC better be strong on the run and push for a good OL coach hire and upgrade of the OL or he will be leaving with Zimm and Company at end of year...

Prior to signing with Minnesota this season, Cousins had a 4-11-1 record during matchups in which he finished with 40 pass attempts or more. Yet for some reason in 2018, the Vikings quarterback had seven games with at least 40 pass attempts with DeFilippo calling the plays (which Minnesota came out as a winner in just one of these specific matchups).

Cousins was DeFilippo's guy. When you don't do what your boss tells you, you are out quickly in most situations. Cousins has limited skills. So you either design your offense to handle his limitations or you are out the door.


Limited skills? Cousins was Defilippo's Guy?
Zimmer and Spielman picked Cousins and Defilippo....Defilippo didn't pick Cousins. Cousins isn't limited---Defilippo didn't utilize him correctly----Winston's skills are similar to Cousins which is why Koetter makes sense.

The biggest problem for Kirk the last few games was that our most dangerous 3rd and short weapon (Beebe) was hurt. Robinson was the deep threat and Beebe was the 1st down threat as teams doubled Thielen and Diggs.


Cousins was a better QB under Flip than Winston ever was under Koetter.
Post #: 2078
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:09:30 PM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2631
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Buckingham

You simply can't win against a good team if your offensive line sucks. Our offensive line sucks. We can't pass protect long enough to have a vertical passing game or a productive running game. All the OC in the world will agree that the only way to win is to run the ball when needed and pass protect. If you can't pass protect you have to have a quick-hitting passing game that prioritizes the QB getting rid of the ball quickly. We don't have that, for whatever reason. Cousins holds the ball, holds the ball, and runs for his life or throws a 3 yard pass to Kyle Rudolph (who is running toward his own goal line). The quick-slants and plays designed for a quick throw get batted down because our linemen don't attack the defensive linemen and Cousins throws right into the hands of the defenders.

We're going to be a QB oriented offense, so let's match what he can do with a system that works with the talent we have. A couple of new offensive linemen will make a big difference. The Colts went from a terrible OL to a a great one with one draft. We need to do the same thing.




I would also add that you reeeeaaaallly can’t win with an offensive line that sucks PLUS a statue for a QB.


I look at what the Bears have for 3rd and 4th receivers and think Beebe was really missed against the Bears. Need that third threat and it wasn't Treadwell.


Yes. Another area Spielman tried to address in FA last offseason but failed to find someone to take over Treadwell’s spot.

Last offseason was about as active an offseason as the Vikings have had .... maybe ever.

I'm not sure replacing Treadwell was a bad call by the coaches (still expecting improvement) or by the GM and staff (not over-ruling the coaches) or both ... but it was a bad call by somebody.

Even so – you can't upgrade every position. And between QB, DT and several of our own (including Diggs), I can see how they justified trying to use filler for WR competition, given the quality of the starters. Not agree with it, just see it.
Post #: 2079
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:09:49 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1033
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
FEB 19th 2018

In his first opportunity to join Paul Allen on KFAN, John DeFilippo had some very nice things to say about the prize quarterback in this year’s free agent pool, Washington Redskins signal caller Kirk Cousins.

“Obviously, I know a pretty good deal about him because we’re in the same division you know the last two seasons,” DeFilippo said. “And I’ve had to compete against Kirk at some other places I’ve been. So obviously Kirk’s a heck of a football player. He’s got a lot of skills. He’s accurate. He’s got plenty of arm strength, and does some really nice things. I mean, Kirk’s a very good quarterback.”

DeFilippo’s comments probably mean that the Vikings are going to be “in” on the Cousins Sweepstakes in some way. Will they ultimately be the winner of that sweepstakes? There’s a chance, I suppose. Any contract that Cousins signs is likely going to make him the highest-paid player in the NFL, and if the Vikings think they can do that without compromising the rest of the roster too much, I’m certain that Rick Spielman will be aggressive in bringing him in.

DeFilippo has gotten to see Cousins up close a couple of times a year for the past few seasons, and his input will be taken into account in the Vikings’ quarterback derby over these next few weeks. Whoever the quarterback for this team is in 2018, given DeFilippo’s track record, I think we can expect him to get the best out of whichever quarterback it is.
Post #: 2080
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:20:28 PM   
kwheats

 

Posts: 2489
Joined: 2/28/2009
From: NORTHERN MINNESOTA
Status: offline
Vikings should put cap space, draft picks into skill positions over offensive line
By Matthew Coller | @MatthewColler
January 6, 2019 10:48 am

After Blair Walsh shanked a 27-yard field goal wide left in a frigid TCF Bank Stadium and the Minnesota Vikings’ season came to an end, every Vikings fan would have told you that the key to a strong 2016 season was fixing the offensive line.

The team’s front office agreed. So they went on the prowl for a starting left guard and right tackle and landed Alex Boone on a four-year, $26.8 million deal with $10 million guaranteed and former Bengal Andre Smith for one-year, $3.5 million contract.

At the time of their signings, Boone and Smith were both 29 years old. Boone had graded solidly in 2015 with the 49ers, scoring a 73.7 (out of 100) grade by Pro Football Focus, which is a shade above average. There were warning signs with Smith, but his 62.3 grade would certainly be better than what they had received the previous year from TJ Clemmings.

Both moves worked out disastrously. Boone played one underwhelming season and then was cut the next season in favor of Nick Easton, costing the Vikings $3.4 million in dead money. Smith was hurt after two weeks and placed on Injured Reserve.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 30th in pass blocking in 2016.

Heading into the 2017 season, after a collapse from 5-0 to 8-8, every Viking fan would have told you that fixing the offensive line was the key to a good year.

In the offseason, the Vikings signed veterans Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers and drafted center Pat Elflein. Reiff’s contract is worth $59 million through 2021 and Remmers signed a five-year, $30 million deal

In two years, Reiff has ranked 34th of 56 and 36th of 62 in pass blocking by PFF among tackles. Remmers had a solid year at right tackle in 2017, but still ranked 30th of 56 in pass blocking and was ultimately moved to right guard for the 2018 season in favor of Rashod Hill, Ultimately Remmers graded 41st of 54 guards in pass blocking while being paid the 16th most of any guard in the NFL.

While Elflein showed promise in Year 1, PFF scored him 21st of 30 centers.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 17th in pass blocking in 2017.

Heading into 2018, Vikings fans would have told you all the team needed was to fix the offensive line to give Kirk Cousins a chance to surpass what Case Keenum did the previous year.

They used a second-round pick on Brian O’Neill, who took over the starting job and played admirably, but still finished 52nd of 62 in pass blocking.

Now if you ask Vikings fans what is needed this offseason to take the next step and return to the playoffs, they will tell you that the team has to spend cap space and its first-round pick on offensive linemen.

Quick fix, right?

Recent history should tell us that overspending on the free agent market on aging offensive linemen and drafting them to fill a one-year need is far from a sure thing.

The Vikings have the 18th overall pick this year. From the 2018 draft — one known for being historically good on the offensive line –13 rookies played more than 550 snaps and only three of them rated higher than a 70 on PFF’s scale. Two of those players were top-10 picks, the other was Indy’s Braden Smith. All the rest — from Frank Ragnow to Will Hernandez to James Daniels to Connor Williams — all finished with scores in the ballpark of Vikings guards Tom Compton and Mike Remmers.
There’s a good chance some of those players become Pro Bowlers, but asking rookies to take a huge leap forward and fix an offensive line right away is a big ask and it rarely happens past the middle of the first round.

Here’s the crazy thing about the draft: The odds of getting a quality lineman at 18th or in the middle of the second round aren’t that different. In an article from last offseason, we looked at the possibilities and found this:

The odds of a guard drafted at No. 30 vs. No. 45 aren’t much different. This study by the website Arrowhead Pride found that 70 percent of second-round linemen over the last 10 years became regular starters.

The possibility of a first-round skill position player like Arizona State receiver K’Neal Harry or Iowa tight end Noah Fant being a game-changer are much higher than a first-round guard being anything better than Nick Easton in his rookie season.

The free agent market has three solid offensive guards: Los Angeles’s Roger Saffold (eighth of 54), Ramon Foster (14th) and Mike Person (15th). Saffold is 31, Foster is 33 and Person is 31.

If Justin Pugh’s contract with Arizona is any indicator, they could all demand in the $9 million range. Pugh played only 343 snaps and scored a putrid 51.7 PFF grade.

Here’s how some other free agent guards worked out for their teams:

Guard Contract Result
Andrew Norwell 5-year, $66M Ranked 17th of 54 by PFF
Josh Sitton 2-year, $18M Played 1 game
Josh Kline 4-year, $26M Ranked 36th by PFF
Brandon Fusco 3-year, $12.7M Played 7 games, ranked 33rd by PFF
Zach Fulton 4-year, $28M Ranked 46th by PFF
Patrick Omameh 3-year, $15M Ranked 47th by PFF
Senio Kelemete 3-year, $12M Ranked 41st by PFF
So, in ranking 33rd, Tom Compton outperformed almost every other free agent guard and made $800k.

By now, you’ve probably figured out the point. If you think the Vikings are becoming the 1993 Dallas Cowboys next season, well, good luck with that. They can certainly get better with a signing or a strong draft pick — and they shouldn’t shy away from selecting linemen — but if the team expects to solve the offensive lien ridding with big spending on early-30s linemen or on the 18th overall pick, the odds are against a huge jump.

Could they go from 27th in pass blocking to mid-pack if O’Neill improves as everything goes right with a draft pick and signing? Yes. But a huge leap is extremely unlikely with Reiff still playing left tackle, still the most valuable pass blocking spot on the field.

The Vikings would gain more offensively by pouring cash and their first-round pick into skill players.

Use the Kansas City Cheifs as an example. Their two starting guards ranked 37th (of 54) and 47th in pass blocking this year, but they threw for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. They also had the sixth and seventh best receiving options in the NFL along with six other players who caught between 20 and 40 passes.

The Los Angeles Rams and Chicago Bears are great examples of teams who stacked up their rosters around questionable quarterbacks with skill players. The Rams picked up Robert Woods, traded for Brandin Cooks, drafted Cooper Kupp and Gerald Everett and the Bears signed Trey Burton, Taylor Gabriel and Allen Robinson to go along with drafting Anthony Miller.

New England traded for Josh Gordon, signed Cordarrelle Patterson and Rex Burkhead and drafted Sony Michael to support Tom Brady.

No matter what the Vikings spend on the O-line, they probably won’t reach the Rams’ level because there isn’t an Andrew Whitworth on the free agent market this year. They could reach L.A., Chicago or Kansas City’s level of playmakers surrounding their quarterback.

Aside from Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen, Cousins did not have a true No. 3 option. As the season went on, teams doubled each of them in key situations, leaving Cousins to search for answers where there were none.

If you recall, his best season in Washington, 2016, had DeSean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Jamison Crowder, Vernon Davis, Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson. That group is far deeper than what the Vikings had this year.

The free agent market and draft offer players who have a much better chance at making an impact in Year 1. Around the league, 17 rookies made more than 30 catches last season. And in the free agent market there are a number of intriguing options like tight ends Jared Cook and Maxx Williams and receivers Larry Fitzgerald (if he doesn’t retire), Randall Cobb, Golden Tate, John Brown, Jermaine Kearse, Cordarrelle Patterson, Chris Hogan, Jamison Crowder and Devin Funchess.

Not every big skill free agent acquisition worked out last year either, but there were more hits than with guards.

Robinson caught 55 passes for 754 yards for the Bears
Gabriel grabbed 67 passes for Chicago
Sammy Watkins picked up 40 catches in 10 games at 13.0 yards per catch
Michael Crabtree made 54 receptions for 607 yards
John Brown made 42 catches at 17.0 yards per catch
Jordy Nelson caught 63 passes for 739 yards
The Vikings always talk about having three-year plans and drafting the best player on their board. But this situation is different. They have two more years of Cousins at quarterback and probably a short window of having an elite defense with player like Linval Joseph, Everson Griffen, Harrison Smith and Xavier Rhodes in their late primes.

They should be in win-now mode for the rest of Cousins’ tenure at QB. And the best way to win now isn’t to risk another failure in O-line spending or drafting a first-rounder that has nearly equal odds of being good as a second-round guard. It is to find a massive upgrade in big-play ability over Laquon Treadwell. It is to find a No. 2 tight end who can stretch the field. That’s the way to give Cousins what he needs to raise his level of play.

If it were possible to spend a few bucks and give Cousins the 2009 Vikings offensive line, of course that would be the plan. But they aren’t drafting high enough to find the next Phil Loadholt and Steve Hutchinson isn’t available on the market this year. A version of Percy Harvin, however, is on the market in Golden Tate.
Post #: 2081
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:21:41 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 38035
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Buckingham

You simply can't win against a good team if your offensive line sucks. Our offensive line sucks. We can't pass protect long enough to have a vertical passing game or a productive running game. All the OC in the world will agree that the only way to win is to run the ball when needed and pass protect. If you can't pass protect you have to have a quick-hitting passing game that prioritizes the QB getting rid of the ball quickly. We don't have that, for whatever reason. Cousins holds the ball, holds the ball, and runs for his life or throws a 3 yard pass to Kyle Rudolph (who is running toward his own goal line). The quick-slants and plays designed for a quick throw get batted down because our linemen don't attack the defensive linemen and Cousins throws right into the hands of the defenders.

We're going to be a QB oriented offense, so let's match what he can do with a system that works with the talent we have. A couple of new offensive linemen will make a big difference. The Colts went from a terrible OL to a a great one with one draft. We need to do the same thing.




I would also add that you reeeeaaaallly can’t win with an offensive line that sucks PLUS a statue for a QB.


I look at what the Bears have for 3rd and 4th receivers and think Beebe was really missed against the Bears. Need that third threat and it wasn't Treadwell.


Yes. Another area Spielman tried to address in FA last offseason but failed to find someone to take over Treadwell’s spot.


Robinson's 5 TD's, as a 3rd/4th stands up among receiver totals the last 10 years. Talking better than a lot of 1's and 2's through the decade.

_____________________________

I tried.

2006/2019
Post #: 2082
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:23:53 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1033
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

He, ragnor, is slightly... distorting something else to fit his agenda...

Big surprise..

https://sportsspectrum.com/sport/football/2017/09/28/redskins-qb-kirk-cousins-keeps-bible-verse-locker-reminder/

the video, Cousins pointed out a Bible Verse that he keeps taped to the side of the wall., in his locker..


That is not at all what I am speaking of Dan...

There was several small mentions mid way though season of "someone" posting memos around the facility and on Kirks locker area of Kirks turn over stats...

no religious stuff, it was a article online I will attempt to find...



Ragnarok, the schtick is getting old. You even misremember to fit your agenda. I'm not sure what I'd like to read less, the pointless debate about CBs or PassRushers or your Cousins garbage.

What was posted: Zimmer coached teams winning record based on turnovers. It was posted and discussed right before/after the bye week. It was hung in either the QB room or some other offense meeting room.


When you posted Cousins record against winning teams you failed to post every other top 10 QB's record against winning teams (only two had winning records). Same thing with this 40 plus passes stat. What is the league average when passing more than 40 times????? I'm guessing similar. If you pass that much you are behind on the scoreboard (except Tom Brady). Which means you are going to lose.



The quote of 40 plus passing attempts was not mine, it was cut and pasted from a recent article... hence why it was bolded...

Brees, Rodgers and Brady all had multiple 40 plus pass games this year in which they won by a wide margin meaning they were likely not playing from behind... but you can feel how ever you want about that authors point...


On the issue of posting a memo of Kirk Cousins turnover stats around the facility I read that somewhere on Daily Norseman site about mid season when Kirk was really struggling. It essentially said "someone had made copies of a sheet showing Kirks past turnover struggles and posted it not only on Kirks locker area but around the building to make a point for all to see... "

It was a real reported event at the time... I cant now find the damn piece it came from, but I did read it... wasnt my intent to make shit up or misremember for my agenda...
Post #: 2083
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:29:32 PM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 87661
Status: offline
Each teams biggest 2019 off-season need.

Minnesota Vikings

Address the offensive line.

The same storyline that haunted the Vikings throughout 2018 is one that remains the top priority this offseason. After surrendering a league-high 227 pressures, Minnesota needs to upgrade the offensive line, particularly its guard spots. It wouldn't be a surprise to see the Vikings completely overhaul the line and move on from the likes of Tom Compton, Mike Remmers (who has no guaranteed money left on his deal), Brett Jones, Danny Isidora and Rashod Hill. Minnesota has several ways it can create the cap space needed to go after a lineman or two in free agency, but it also needs to use a chunk of its draft capital in the higher rounds to begin to fix the problem. -- Courtney Cronin


I've not heard this, but it appears we have OL trouble.
Post #: 2084
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:35:37 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 66428
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Each teams biggest 2019 off-season need.

Minnesota Vikings

Address the offensive line.

The same storyline that haunted the Vikings throughout 2018 is one that remains the top priority this offseason. After surrendering a league-high 227 pressures, Minnesota needs to upgrade the offensive line, particularly its guard spots. It wouldn't be a surprise to see the Vikings completely overhaul the line and move on from the likes of Tom Compton, Mike Remmers (who has no guaranteed money left on his deal), Brett Jones, Danny Isidora and Rashod Hill. Minnesota has several ways it can create the cap space needed to go after a lineman or two in free agency, but it also needs to use a chunk of its draft capital in the higher rounds to begin to fix the problem. -- Courtney Cronin


I've not heard this, but it appears we have OL trouble.


That's odd.

I wasn't even aware we had an Offensive Line...
Post #: 2085
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:37:25 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 15769
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffenach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

I wonder if Working with a stubborn, meddling HC who is a lame duck final year guy would inhibit interests or would the future OC candidate see a chance to turn around head case but very talented Cousins and have a shot at being next HC himself?

Yes, if we bring in Machiavelli.

Otherwise, whatever OC comes in here will look forward to having a very good QB, very good skill players at WR, and RB ... and a top notch defense.


Cousins is a coach killer...

Ask John DeFilippo... he went from short list young phenom up and coming HC candidate to unemployed head scratched in matter of a month while Cousins melted down with the HC demanding more runs.,,..

No matter, the next OC better be strong on the run and push for a good OL coach hire and upgrade of the OL or he will be leaving with Zimm and Company at end of year...

Prior to signing with Minnesota this season, Cousins had a 4-11-1 record during matchups in which he finished with 40 pass attempts or more. Yet for some reason in 2018, the Vikings quarterback had seven games with at least 40 pass attempts with DeFilippo calling the plays (which Minnesota came out as a winner in just one of these specific matchups).

Cousins was DeFilippo's guy. When you don't do what your boss tells you, you are out quickly in most situations. Cousins has limited skills. So you either design your offense to handle his limitations or you are out the door.


Limited skills? Cousins was Defilippo's Guy?
Zimmer and Spielman picked Cousins and Defilippo....Defilippo didn't pick Cousins. Cousins isn't limited---Defilippo didn't utilize him correctly----Winston's skills are similar to Cousins which is why Koetter makes sense.

The biggest problem for Kirk the last few games was that our most dangerous 3rd and short weapon (Beebe) was hurt. Robinson was the deep threat and Beebe was the 1st down threat as teams doubled Thielen and Diggs.


Cousins was a better QB under Flip than Winston ever was under Koetter.


Not what I was saying....Winston when not in trouble has the same attributes. Pocket passer and also Koetter's offense worked with Fitz too after Winston was suspended first four games.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 2086
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:40:16 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 15769
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

He, ragnor, is slightly... distorting something else to fit his agenda...

Big surprise..

https://sportsspectrum.com/sport/football/2017/09/28/redskins-qb-kirk-cousins-keeps-bible-verse-locker-reminder/

the video, Cousins pointed out a Bible Verse that he keeps taped to the side of the wall., in his locker..


That is not at all what I am speaking of Dan...

There was several small mentions mid way though season of "someone" posting memos around the facility and on Kirks locker area of Kirks turn over stats...

no religious stuff, it was a article online I will attempt to find...



Ragnarok, the schtick is getting old. You even misremember to fit your agenda. I'm not sure what I'd like to read less, the pointless debate about CBs or PassRushers or your Cousins garbage.

What was posted: Zimmer coached teams winning record based on turnovers. It was posted and discussed right before/after the bye week. It was hung in either the QB room or some other offense meeting room.


When you posted Cousins record against winning teams you failed to post every other top 10 QB's record against winning teams (only two had winning records). Same thing with this 40 plus passes stat. What is the league average when passing more than 40 times????? I'm guessing similar. If you pass that much you are behind on the scoreboard (except Tom Brady). Which means you are going to lose.



The quote of 40 plus passing attempts was not mine, it was cut and pasted from a recent article... hence why it was bolded...

Brees, Rodgers and Brady all had multiple 40 plus pass games this year in which they won by a wide margin meaning they were likely not playing from behind... but you can feel how ever you want about that authors point...


On the issue of posting a memo of Kirk Cousins turnover stats around the facility I read that somewhere on Daily Norseman site about mid season when Kirk was really struggling. It essentially said "someone had made copies of a sheet showing Kirks past turnover struggles and posted it not only on Kirks locker area but around the building to make a point for all to see... "

It was a real reported event at the time... I cant now find the damn piece it came from, but I did read it... wasnt my intent to make shit up or misremember for my agenda...


Rag on Cousins, I mean Ragnarok....who out there is/was a better option than Cousins? 4298 Yards, 30 TD and only 10 Int.

Before you say Case, remember he had 3890 yards 18 TD, 15 INTs for Denver.

Also if you want to bring up fumbles Case lost 6, Kirk lost 7.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/8/2019 12:42:42 PM >


_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 2087
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:45:22 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1033
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2018/12/11/kirk-cousins-is-more-than-an-84-million-mistake-for-the-vikings/#798e62c026b5

The above shtick from author is just the exact points I have been making all along...

Bad choice of contract structure, bad to overlook past stats, we didnt get what most of you had all hoped for out of KC in 2018...

We are stuck with him for two more years, sure hope the next OC does better as well I hope we upgrade the OL so we all can see if that in fact is all that was wrong with Kirks game in 2018.
Post #: 2088
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:47:19 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 38035
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Rag on Cousins, I mean Ragnarok....who out there is/was a better option than Cousins? 4298 Yards, 30 TD and only 10 Int.


+70%. Numbers never before duplicated.

We suffered through Jackson's, Ponders's, and Freeman's.

Have a complaint or criticism, it's normal. Having an agenda is a joke.

Tired of people's agendas. I swear they have 2,3,4 bullets in the chamber and that's all they can fire. Bores.

_____________________________

I tried.

2006/2019
Post #: 2089
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:48:08 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 25203
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kwheats

Vikings should put cap space, draft picks into skill positions over offensive line
By Matthew Coller | @MatthewColler
January 6, 2019 10:48 am

After Blair Walsh shanked a 27-yard field goal wide left in a frigid TCF Bank Stadium and the Minnesota Vikings’ season came to an end, every Vikings fan would have told you that the key to a strong 2016 season was fixing the offensive line.

The team’s front office agreed. So they went on the prowl for a starting left guard and right tackle and landed Alex Boone on a four-year, $26.8 million deal with $10 million guaranteed and former Bengal Andre Smith for one-year, $3.5 million contract.

At the time of their signings, Boone and Smith were both 29 years old. Boone had graded solidly in 2015 with the 49ers, scoring a 73.7 (out of 100) grade by Pro Football Focus, which is a shade above average. There were warning signs with Smith, but his 62.3 grade would certainly be better than what they had received the previous year from TJ Clemmings.

Both moves worked out disastrously. Boone played one underwhelming season and then was cut the next season in favor of Nick Easton, costing the Vikings $3.4 million in dead money. Smith was hurt after two weeks and placed on Injured Reserve.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 30th in pass blocking in 2016.

Heading into the 2017 season, after a collapse from 5-0 to 8-8, every Viking fan would have told you that fixing the offensive line was the key to a good year.

In the offseason, the Vikings signed veterans Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers and drafted center Pat Elflein. Reiff’s contract is worth $59 million through 2021 and Remmers signed a five-year, $30 million deal

In two years, Reiff has ranked 34th of 56 and 36th of 62 in pass blocking by PFF among tackles. Remmers had a solid year at right tackle in 2017, but still ranked 30th of 56 in pass blocking and was ultimately moved to right guard for the 2018 season in favor of Rashod Hill, Ultimately Remmers graded 41st of 54 guards in pass blocking while being paid the 16th most of any guard in the NFL.

While Elflein showed promise in Year 1, PFF scored him 21st of 30 centers.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 17th in pass blocking in 2017.

Heading into 2018, Vikings fans would have told you all the team needed was to fix the offensive line to give Kirk Cousins a chance to surpass what Case Keenum did the previous year.

They used a second-round pick on Brian O’Neill, who took over the starting job and played admirably, but still finished 52nd of 62 in pass blocking.

Now if you ask Vikings fans what is needed this offseason to take the next step and return to the playoffs, they will tell you that the team has to spend cap space and its first-round pick on offensive linemen.

Quick fix, right?

Recent history should tell us that overspending on the free agent market on aging offensive linemen and drafting them to fill a one-year need is far from a sure thing.

The Vikings have the 18th overall pick this year. From the 2018 draft — one known for being historically good on the offensive line –13 rookies played more than 550 snaps and only three of them rated higher than a 70 on PFF’s scale. Two of those players were top-10 picks, the other was Indy’s Braden Smith. All the rest — from Frank Ragnow to Will Hernandez to James Daniels to Connor Williams — all finished with scores in the ballpark of Vikings guards Tom Compton and Mike Remmers.
There’s a good chance some of those players become Pro Bowlers, but asking rookies to take a huge leap forward and fix an offensive line right away is a big ask and it rarely happens past the middle of the first round.

Here’s the crazy thing about the draft: The odds of getting a quality lineman at 18th or in the middle of the second round aren’t that different. In an article from last offseason, we looked at the possibilities and found this:

The odds of a guard drafted at No. 30 vs. No. 45 aren’t much different. This study by the website Arrowhead Pride found that 70 percent of second-round linemen over the last 10 years became regular starters.

The possibility of a first-round skill position player like Arizona State receiver K’Neal Harry or Iowa tight end Noah Fant being a game-changer are much higher than a first-round guard being anything better than Nick Easton in his rookie season.

The free agent market has three solid offensive guards: Los Angeles’s Roger Saffold (eighth of 54), Ramon Foster (14th) and Mike Person (15th). Saffold is 31, Foster is 33 and Person is 31.

If Justin Pugh’s contract with Arizona is any indicator, they could all demand in the $9 million range. Pugh played only 343 snaps and scored a putrid 51.7 PFF grade.

Here’s how some other free agent guards worked out for their teams:

Guard Contract Result
Andrew Norwell 5-year, $66M Ranked 17th of 54 by PFF
Josh Sitton 2-year, $18M Played 1 game
Josh Kline 4-year, $26M Ranked 36th by PFF
Brandon Fusco 3-year, $12.7M Played 7 games, ranked 33rd by PFF
Zach Fulton 4-year, $28M Ranked 46th by PFF
Patrick Omameh 3-year, $15M Ranked 47th by PFF
Senio Kelemete 3-year, $12M Ranked 41st by PFF
So, in ranking 33rd, Tom Compton outperformed almost every other free agent guard and made $800k.

By now, you’ve probably figured out the point.


Yes, PFF rankings are worthless.
Post #: 2090
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:53:22 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1033
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

Rag on Cousins, I mean Ragnarok....who out there is/was a better option than Cousins? 4298 Yards, 30 TD and only 10 Int.


+70%. Numbers never before duplicated.

We suffered through Jackson's, Ponders's, and Freeman's.

Have a complaint or criticism, it's normal. Having an agenda is a joke.

Tired of people's agendas. I swear they have 2,3,4 bullets in the chamber and that's all they can fire. Bores.

What do gaudy personal stat lines get you? What did it get us this year?

The other half of the equation in stats is real too

Cousins is just 5-13 in primetime games during his career, including a 0-7 mark on Monday Night Football. He boasts a career 4-24 record against winning teams and is 0-5 against like opponents this season.

One can reasonably conclude that Cousins comes up small with everything on the line.
Post #: 2091
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:57:51 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 15769
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

Rag on Cousins, I mean Ragnarok....who out there is/was a better option than Cousins? 4298 Yards, 30 TD and only 10 Int.


+70%. Numbers never before duplicated.

We suffered through Jackson's, Ponders's, and Freeman's.

Have a complaint or criticism, it's normal. Having an agenda is a joke.

Tired of people's agendas. I swear they have 2,3,4 bullets in the chamber and that's all they can fire. Bores.

What do gaudy personal stat lines get you? What did it get us this year?

The other half of the equation in stats is real too

Cousins is just 5-13 in primetime games during his career, including a 0-7 mark on Monday Night Football. He boasts a career 4-24 record against winning teams and is 0-5 against like opponents this season.

One can reasonably conclude that Cousins comes up small with everything on the line.



Here is the thing----look at the Bears/Eagles game and how locked down the Eagles WR were locked down...they scored 16 points and I don't hear them ragging on Foles for his 2 Ints because sometimes the ST and Defense have to win games. Now if you complained about the defense not stopping the Bears on third downs as much as you Ragged on Cousins....

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 2092
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 12:58:22 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 66428
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
At least Art left for the year when he hated our QB so we didn't have to read the constant drivel...
Post #: 2093
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:05:28 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1033
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...
Post #: 2094
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:10:38 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 66428
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...


You can say what you want - but you're shtick is getting relentlessly draining.

Especially the whole "I hope he proves me wrong, but here are 7 more articles saying he's the shittiest QB to ever QB..."
Post #: 2095
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:11:01 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 8771
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Each teams biggest 2019 off-season need.

Minnesota Vikings

Address the offensive line.

The same storyline that haunted the Vikings throughout 2018 is one that remains the top priority this offseason. After surrendering a league-high 227 pressures, Minnesota needs to upgrade the offensive line, particularly its guard spots. It wouldn't be a surprise to see the Vikings completely overhaul the line and move on from the likes of Tom Compton, Mike Remmers (who has no guaranteed money left on his deal), Brett Jones, Danny Isidora and Rashod Hill. Minnesota has several ways it can create the cap space needed to go after a lineman or two in free agency, but it also needs to use a chunk of its draft capital in the higher rounds to begin to fix the problem. -- Courtney Cronin


I've not heard this, but it appears we have OL trouble.


That's odd.

I wasn't even aware we had an Offensive Line...

Just like that Tampa Bay coach during their early years.

"What do you think about the execution of your Offensive Line?"

"I'm all for it"
Post #: 2096
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:13:39 PM   
ruffenach

 

Posts: 3527
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

FEB 19th 2018

In his first opportunity to join Paul Allen on KFAN, John DeFilippo had some very nice things to say about the prize quarterback in this year’s free agent pool, Washington Redskins signal caller Kirk Cousins.

“Obviously, I know a pretty good deal about him because we’re in the same division you know the last two seasons,” DeFilippo said. “And I’ve had to compete against Kirk at some other places I’ve been. So obviously Kirk’s a heck of a football player. He’s got a lot of skills. He’s accurate. He’s got plenty of arm strength, and does some really nice things. I mean, Kirk’s a very good quarterback.”

DeFilippo’s comments probably mean that the Vikings are going to be “in” on the Cousins Sweepstakes in some way. Will they ultimately be the winner of that sweepstakes? There’s a chance, I suppose. Any contract that Cousins signs is likely going to make him the highest-paid player in the NFL, and if the Vikings think they can do that without compromising the rest of the roster too much, I’m certain that Rick Spielman will be aggressive in bringing him in.

DeFilippo has gotten to see Cousins up close a couple of times a year for the past few seasons, and his input will be taken into account in the Vikings’ quarterback derby over these next few weeks. Whoever the quarterback for this team is in 2018, given DeFilippo’s track record, I think we can expect him to get the best out of whichever quarterback it is.


This is how I remember Flip on Cousins. He was a big public supporter of Cousins.
Post #: 2097
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:39:21 PM   
David F.


Posts: 7408
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kwheats

Vikings should put cap space, draft picks into skill positions over offensive line
By Matthew Coller | @MatthewColler
January 6, 2019 10:48 am

After Blair Walsh shanked a 27-yard field goal wide left in a frigid TCF Bank Stadium and the Minnesota Vikings’ season came to an end, every Vikings fan would have told you that the key to a strong 2016 season was fixing the offensive line.

The team’s front office agreed. So they went on the prowl for a starting left guard and right tackle and landed Alex Boone on a four-year, $26.8 million deal with $10 million guaranteed and former Bengal Andre Smith for one-year, $3.5 million contract.

At the time of their signings, Boone and Smith were both 29 years old. Boone had graded solidly in 2015 with the 49ers, scoring a 73.7 (out of 100) grade by Pro Football Focus, which is a shade above average. There were warning signs with Smith, but his 62.3 grade would certainly be better than what they had received the previous year from TJ Clemmings.

Both moves worked out disastrously. Boone played one underwhelming season and then was cut the next season in favor of Nick Easton, costing the Vikings $3.4 million in dead money. Smith was hurt after two weeks and placed on Injured Reserve.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 30th in pass blocking in 2016.

Heading into the 2017 season, after a collapse from 5-0 to 8-8, every Viking fan would have told you that fixing the offensive line was the key to a good year.

In the offseason, the Vikings signed veterans Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers and drafted center Pat Elflein. Reiff’s contract is worth $59 million through 2021 and Remmers signed a five-year, $30 million deal

In two years, Reiff has ranked 34th of 56 and 36th of 62 in pass blocking by PFF among tackles. Remmers had a solid year at right tackle in 2017, but still ranked 30th of 56 in pass blocking and was ultimately moved to right guard for the 2018 season in favor of Rashod Hill, Ultimately Remmers graded 41st of 54 guards in pass blocking while being paid the 16th most of any guard in the NFL.

While Elflein showed promise in Year 1, PFF scored him 21st of 30 centers.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 17th in pass blocking in 2017.

Heading into 2018, Vikings fans would have told you all the team needed was to fix the offensive line to give Kirk Cousins a chance to surpass what Case Keenum did the previous year.

They used a second-round pick on Brian O’Neill, who took over the starting job and played admirably, but still finished 52nd of 62 in pass blocking.

Now if you ask Vikings fans what is needed this offseason to take the next step and return to the playoffs, they will tell you that the team has to spend cap space and its first-round pick on offensive linemen.

Quick fix, right?

Recent history should tell us that overspending on the free agent market on aging offensive linemen and drafting them to fill a one-year need is far from a sure thing.

The Vikings have the 18th overall pick this year. From the 2018 draft — one known for being historically good on the offensive line –13 rookies played more than 550 snaps and only three of them rated higher than a 70 on PFF’s scale. Two of those players were top-10 picks, the other was Indy’s Braden Smith. All the rest — from Frank Ragnow to Will Hernandez to James Daniels to Connor Williams — all finished with scores in the ballpark of Vikings guards Tom Compton and Mike Remmers.
There’s a good chance some of those players become Pro Bowlers, but asking rookies to take a huge leap forward and fix an offensive line right away is a big ask and it rarely happens past the middle of the first round.

Here’s the crazy thing about the draft: The odds of getting a quality lineman at 18th or in the middle of the second round aren’t that different. In an article from last offseason, we looked at the possibilities and found this:

The odds of a guard drafted at No. 30 vs. No. 45 aren’t much different. This study by the website Arrowhead Pride found that 70 percent of second-round linemen over the last 10 years became regular starters.

The possibility of a first-round skill position player like Arizona State receiver K’Neal Harry or Iowa tight end Noah Fant being a game-changer are much higher than a first-round guard being anything better than Nick Easton in his rookie season.

The free agent market has three solid offensive guards: Los Angeles’s Roger Saffold (eighth of 54), Ramon Foster (14th) and Mike Person (15th). Saffold is 31, Foster is 33 and Person is 31.

If Justin Pugh’s contract with Arizona is any indicator, they could all demand in the $9 million range. Pugh played only 343 snaps and scored a putrid 51.7 PFF grade.

Here’s how some other free agent guards worked out for their teams:

Guard Contract Result
Andrew Norwell 5-year, $66M Ranked 17th of 54 by PFF
Josh Sitton 2-year, $18M Played 1 game
Josh Kline 4-year, $26M Ranked 36th by PFF
Brandon Fusco 3-year, $12.7M Played 7 games, ranked 33rd by PFF
Zach Fulton 4-year, $28M Ranked 46th by PFF
Patrick Omameh 3-year, $15M Ranked 47th by PFF
Senio Kelemete 3-year, $12M Ranked 41st by PFF
So, in ranking 33rd, Tom Compton outperformed almost every other free agent guard and made $800k.

By now, you’ve probably figured out the point.


Yes, PFF rankings are worthless.


How do you suppose that Fusco and Compton both ranked 33rd?

_____________________________

I've come to the conclusion that I'm in an unhealthy co-dependent relationship with the Vikings. Damn it.
Post #: 2098
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:44:50 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 15769
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
I have a feeling of a trade down to get multiple 2nd rounders to fill Oline, TE, and maybe a Barr replacement.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 2099
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:46:44 PM   
David F.


Posts: 7408
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I have a feeling of a trade down to get multiple 2nd rounders to fill Oline, TE, and maybe a Barr replacement.


Unless the right guy is there at #18 I would love to see this.

_____________________________

I've come to the conclusion that I'm in an unhealthy co-dependent relationship with the Vikings. Damn it.
Post #: 2100
Page:   <<   < prev  82 83 [84] 85 86   next >   >>
All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk Page: <<   < prev  82 83 [84] 85 86   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode