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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:33:19 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9568
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online 		.
.
this trade has become too messy...last-minute position shifting, more money now and new deal next season, a lot of draft capital....

should have paid griffen....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 3826
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:33:34 PM  1 votes
beo

 

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I have a little piece of wisdom for you.
you don't win anything on an internet forum...
nobody ever changes their mind...
no problems are solved...


Maybe this should be my first t-shirt saying.


I'll take one!
Post #: 3827
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:36:52 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9568
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online 		.
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we don't have the horses to fix the o-line the way we want it, or the way they want it....

i think they'll bail on the last-minute o'neill to lt and go with hill - they'll think it's safer, and they might be right....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 3828
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:37:05 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
this trade has become too messy...last-minute position shifting, more money now and new deal next season, a lot of draft capital....

should have paid griffen....


I get your feeling but...

Griff is 32 I think... and faded down the stretch in my eyes... (although I thought he was a beast against NO in the playoffs)
Yannick is 24 I think.

Not sure what to think on Reiff... I thought he was steady average.
However, I can see the gamble... if O'Neil and Udoh did rise to the occasion... this move has the chance to make you a contend.

Yannick's huge upside for me is his ability to cause turnovers... some players just have a knack.
Turning a sack into a sack/turnover can change games.

And he is durable... only missed 1 game I think.
Post #: 3829
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:41:31 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9568
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
this trade has become too messy...last-minute position shifting, more money now and new deal next season, a lot of draft capital....

should have paid griffen....


I get your feeling but...

Griff is 32 I think... and faded down the stretch in my eyes... (although I thought he was a beast against NO in the playoffs)
Yannick is 24 I think.

Not sure what to think on Reiff... I thought he was steady average.
However, I can see the gamble... if O'Neil and Udoh did rise to the occasion... this move has the chance to make you a contend.

Yannick's huge upside for me is his ability to cause turnovers... some players just have a knack.
Turning a sack into a sack/turnover can change games.

And he is durable... only missed 1 game I think.



with pressures and fumbles, he's off the charts, for sure...of course i hope it all works out well - just very last minute, and the o-line was/is so uncertain....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 3830
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:47:37 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
this trade has become too messy...last-minute position shifting, more money now and new deal next season, a lot of draft capital....

should have paid griffen....


I get your feeling but...

Griff is 32 I think... and faded down the stretch in my eyes... (although I thought he was a beast against NO in the playoffs)
Yannick is 24 I think.

Not sure what to think on Reiff... I thought he was steady average.
However, I can see the gamble... if O'Neil and Udoh did rise to the occasion... this move has the chance to make you a contend.

Yannick's huge upside for me is his ability to cause turnovers... some players just have a knack.
Turning a sack into a sack/turnover can change games.

And he is durable... only missed 1 game I think.



with pressures and fumbles, he's off the charts, for sure...of course i hope it all works out well - just very last minute, and the o-line was/is so uncertain....


Those bottom two rows...

Post #: 3831
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:51:43 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28647
Status: offline 		In 2018 we trotted out Reiff - Easton - Elf - Berger - Remmers. At best some of those five were praised as being average or showing glimpses of promise.

Since then we've added O'Neill and Bradbury, the latter of which the jury is still out or not even called.

So somewhere along the line the other three spots needed someone, anyone to at least try to finish the rebuild.

We drafted a not ready tackle, have a couple of unknowns at tackle, a couple of unknowns at guard, a journeyman guard, and a possible RG who pretty much failed at C and LG. And a cap crunch that will probably force our marginal LT off the roster.

Oh, and we are trying some of them out at new positions on Aug. 31.
Post #: 3832
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:56:08 PM   
Brad H


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Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

In 2018 we trotted out Reiff - Easton - Elf - Berger - Remmers. At best some of those five were praised as being average or showing glimpses of promise.

Since then we've added O'Neill and Bradbury, the latter of which the jury is still out or not even called.

So somewhere along the line the other three spots needed someone, anyone to at least try to finish the rebuild.

We drafted a not ready tackle, have a couple of unknowns at tackle, a couple of unknowns at guard, a journeyman guard, and a possible RG who pretty much failed at C and LG. And a cap crunch that will probably force our marginal LT off the roster.

Oh, and we are trying some of them out at new positions on Aug. 31.

Nothing quite says question mark like positional tryouts 13 days from the opener.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 3833
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 1:56:29 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

I heard the Vikings traded for A DE that's pretty good? Yanny Ngakawa
Does anyone know anything about him? Will he be a projected starter?


All I know is he's not Japanese.
Post #: 3834
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:01:05 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

When will our all-healing t-shirts be ready? Are you getting them from China? Any tariffs?


T-shirts were probably on my mind because I am starting a printing business. No joke. Cotton shirts from China are too expensive, although I might get some 100% poly shirts there. I think I will get my cotton and cotton-blend shirts from Bangladesh or India. So now you know.

Pretty exciting that we could have my all-healing shirts in stock by Black Friday. And I think there will probably still be some need for healing at that point. I can ship my first one to you.


Hey I want to virtue signal too! Make mine Kente!
Post #: 3835
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:03:11 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.



It's post June 1st. His cap hit would be 2.2M this year with a savings of 11M. And 2.2 M with 12M in savings next year.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 3836
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:05:12 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I think the young CBs and WRs (JJ, Johnson, Hollins) and the Oline improving.....they might have to go for it this year. You figure the ages of Thielen, Smith, Harris, and Cook's possible last year---they have to go for it.

Young CBs just got better yesterday.


Yep. Our two best defenses were when the front four were tremendous, PPE and Doleman/Millard. Rules have changed since so having great CBs is a game changer, but at least ours have - as you say - improved due to getting another awesome pass rusher.

Relatedly, did Ngakoue benefit from having Jalen Ramsey?

From PFF:

Ngakoue, playing much of his career with brilliant cornerback play in Jalen Ramsey and A.J. Bouye, actually got home less than one would expect with his circumstances, which is a big reason why his PFF pass-rushing grade has only eclipsed 80.0 once.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-minnesota-vikings-trade-jacksonville-jaguars-yannick-ngakoue
Post #: 3837
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:06:43 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28647
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

I heard the Vikings traded for A DE that's pretty good? Yanny Ngakawa
Does anyone know anything about him? Will he be a projected starter?


All I know is he's not Japanese.


Was thinking Vietnamese-Japanese.
Post #: 3838
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:07:36 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.


Who would want to assume the 22M base salary he's owed over this year and next?
Post #: 3839
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:18:59 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45027
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.


Who would want to assume the 22M base salary he's owed over this year and next?

Reiff is a white elephant. I can't imagine the line being any worse for his loss. I don't know if LT is O'Neill's best position, but he is so much a superior football player to Reiff that I can't imagine him not playing better at the position.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 3840
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:28:18 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.


Who would want to assume the 22M base salary he's owed over this year and next?

Reiff is a white elephant. I can't imagine the line being any worse for his loss. I don't know if LT is O'Neill's best position, but he is so much a superior football player to Reiff that I can't imagine him not playing better at the position.



I've been posting on this for months. The reason this is being done at the 11th hour is piss poor planning. Regardless of the Yannick trade, they should have alternate plans in place. Reiff is no worse than when camp started; if he is expendable now, he was expendable then. Udoh missed the first part of camp, but it can't be a new revelation that he could be a RT option. Ezra hasn't even been given consideration for the LT spot. ONeil only recently has been getting PT at LT.

Piss poor planning.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 3841
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:32:29 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45027
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.


Who would want to assume the 22M base salary he's owed over this year and next?

Reiff is a white elephant. I can't imagine the line being any worse for his loss. I don't know if LT is O'Neill's best position, but he is so much a superior football player to Reiff that I can't imagine him not playing better at the position.



I've been posting on this for months. The reason this is being done at the 11th hour is piss poor planning. Regardless of the Yannick trade, they should have alternate plans in place. Reiff is no worse than when camp started; if he is expendable now, he was expendable then. Udoh missed the first part of camp, but it can't be a new revelation that he could be a RT option. Ezra hasn't even been given consideration for the LT spot. ONeil only recently has been getting PT at LT.

Piss poor planning.

You'll get no argument from me on this point. Spielman's handing of the o-line has been nothing short of a cluster f**k.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 3842
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:39:14 PM   
unome

 

Posts: 985
Joined: 5/7/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.


Who would want to assume the 22M base salary he's owed over this year and next?

Reiff is a white elephant. I can't imagine the line being any worse for his loss. I don't know if LT is O'Neill's best position, but he is so much a superior football player to Reiff that I can't imagine him not playing better at the position.



I've been posting on this for months. The reason this is being done at the 11th hour is piss poor planning. Regardless of the Yannick trade, they should have alternate plans in place. Reiff is no worse than when camp started; if he is expendable now, he was expendable then. Udoh missed the first part of camp, but it can't be a new revelation that he could be a RT option. Ezra hasn't even been given consideration for the LT spot. ONeil only recently has been getting PT at LT.

Piss poor planning.

You'll get no argument from me on this point. Spielman's handing of the o-line has been nothing short of a cluster f**k.


It is almost like the O-line is Spielman/Zimmer's one huge blind spot. Pretty good at finding everything else and poor at the O-line.

Mediocre, at best, drafting. Even worse free agent pickups or lack of pickups.

I get not putting a lot of money and draft capital into Guards, but many teams pick up very good Guards on the third day of the draft and we are still waiting on that.
Post #: 3843
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:46:25 PM   
unome

 

Posts: 985
Joined: 5/7/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I've been posting on this for months. The reason this is being done at the 11th hour is piss poor planning. Regardless of the Yannick trade, they should have alternate plans in place. Reiff is no worse than when camp started; if he is expendable now, he was expendable then. Udoh missed the first part of camp, but it can't be a new revelation that he could be a RT option. Ezra hasn't even been given consideration for the LT spot. ONeil only recently has been getting PT at LT.

Piss poor planning.


What bothers me is not bringing Reiff into camp. He was great insurance if O'Neil or Hill was hurt or if Udoh or Ezra did not show much in camp.

I think the main miss was not bringing in another veteran Guard. Since Kline was not picked up by another team, I guess I cannot fault that move, but could we really not have found another vet Guard that we liked to come into camp?

They kind of fell in love with Udoh, Samia and maybe Ezra and have way too much trust in Elf.

Maybe it will all work out, but it would be hard to have a lot of faith that it will.
Post #: 3844
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 2:56:20 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i'm surprised we can't trade him....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Pro Football Talk reports #Vikings guard Riley Reiff has told teammates that he expects to be cut. That would clear $8.8 million in salary-cap room for the Vikings and would leave them with $4.4 million in dead money. Would make Brian O'Neill likely starting left tackle.


Who would want to assume the 22M base salary he's owed over this year and next?

Reiff is a white elephant. I can't imagine the line being any worse for his loss. I don't know if LT is O'Neill's best position, but he is so much a superior football player to Reiff that I can't imagine him not playing better at the position.



I've been posting on this for months. The reason this is being done at the 11th hour is piss poor planning. Regardless of the Yannick trade, they should have alternate plans in place. Reiff is no worse than when camp started; if he is expendable now, he was expendable then. Udoh missed the first part of camp, but it can't be a new revelation that he could be a RT option. Ezra hasn't even been given consideration for the LT spot. ONeil only recently has been getting PT at LT.

Piss poor planning.

You'll get no argument from me on this point. Spielman's handing of the o-line has been nothing short of a cluster f**k.


I wouldn't lay this episode at Spielman's feet.
Post #: 3845
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 3:06:52 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45027
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline 		Why not? He is the one who drafted, traded for and signed as FA, all of our linemen.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 3846
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 3:08:58 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15425
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
imo this will be starting o-line in 2020....

hill - lt
Dozier
Bradbury
Elflien
o'neill - rt


I get the feeling they want:
o'neil - lt
Dozier
Bradbury
Elflien
udoh - rt


I think you're right. But, Elf is still in there, who is arguably our worst starting olineman. I hope we can see some improvement inside soon but it isn't going to come from him. Curious to see Udoh at rt, though.
Post #: 3847
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 3:13:19 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Spielman's job is to talk big picture, team building. The 23M cost savings has always been there. And I've never thought Reiff > Hill/Ezra/ONeill + 23M.

I definitely fault the coaches on this one more, I would have liked to see Udoh get some play at RG. Ezra only getting snaps at LG, especially once he struggled early, seems shortsighted. ONeill should have gotten snaps at LT. It seems as if we went into camp with the only true competition at LG. Our line was too poor last year for that approach IMO.

Maybe this has all occurred and I'm wrong. But it sure doesn't seem like it.

< Message edited by Pager -- 8/31/2020 3:14:28 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 3848
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 3:20:40 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9568
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online 		.
.

Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Danielle Hunter isn’t practicing again, but he warmed up with players during the open portion of practice for the first time in weeks. Riley Reiff isn’t here (possibly in his final days with the team), and Kenny Willekes isn’t practicing.


Dane Mizutani@DaneMizutani
No Riley Reiff at Vikings practice today amid reports that he’s been asked to take a pay cut.
Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL

If Reiff is cut, here’s the 2020 cap hits for the #Vikings presumed front 5:

LT Brian O’Neill - $1.2M
LG Dakota Dozier - $840K
C Garrett Bradbury - $2.9M
RG Pat Elflein - $2.4M
RT Oli Udoh - $717K

Have to wonder if some of that extra cap space would be used to upgrade at guard.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 3849
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/31/2020 3:23:19 PM  2 votes
Brad H


Posts: 22989
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Why not? He is the one who drafted, traded for and signed as FA, all of our linemen.

And signed a mediocre (at-best) quarterback for $96-million over three years.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 3850
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