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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 11:04:19 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

So..

You are a fan of doing the same thing over and over, even though the result is almost always the same...



Besides Udoh, what young guy isn't getting a chance this year.

Seems to me our whole season has been about seeing what the young guys can do.
Post #: 5501
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 11:30:11 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Elflein and Samia were rather high draft picks for inferior offensive lineman. We had hopes for them when they were drafted. Clearly it didn't work out. Our first round center has only been rather pedestrian, too.


Fixed your typo.
Post #: 5502
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 11:32:42 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

With three games left..

Not looking to go very far IF the team makes the playoffs..

I would rather use the live playing time to evaluate the player we have, on the OL, LB, DL, and FFS, field goal kickers.

Why are all the guys we get for kicking, either, able to boom a kick off out of the end zone, or make an extra point, consitantly?

When do we find competency at both?

I think there is a bit of truth to ST play suffering because ST players have become starters, but... I recall that in the past, some of our better starters on defense, also played on ST.

It seems the team has gone away from that, which is puzzling.

I understand not wanting to gas or risk additional injury to starting players, by putting them out there, but if poor special teams play is a result of lack of leadership, and talent, which is causing poor execution and bad field positions and points given up?

What is the advantage?

None IMO.


I would argue that even one playoff game would be important for our young guys, going forward.
Post #: 5503
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 11:38:03 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I apologize for being negative but this team will always be a pretender as long as Spielman is in charge. Those G rankings are embarrassing.

No need to apologize. The guard numbers are embarrassing. When the offense is predicated on 30 inside handoffs combined with a straight drop passing game, the guard position is rather important and has been treated as an afterthought.


I can't imagine that Oli Udoh wouldn't be an immediate upgrade over Dozier. It's like the 6 foot wide hockey goalie. You just have to stand there and block stuff.

I'm not going to go down that road. I said the same thing about Samia. Boy was I wrong.


Wouldn’t it be nice to find out and then know what we have going forward? Real game play has been the only way to accurately evaluate our linemen. Heck - the entire roster really.

There's a lot to be said for that mind set. Especially since this team isn't going anywhere this year.

Considering how poorly this coaching staff misjudged the depth chart at G. They had Samia as the first guy off the bench...


He's still the first guy off the bench. At both guard spots.
Post #: 5504
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 3:02:11 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 16487
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

So..

You are a fan of doing the same thing over and over, even though the result is almost always the same...



Besides Udoh, what young guy isn't getting a chance this year.

Seems to me our whole season has been about seeing what the young guys can do.

I was thinking more along the lines of getting live games for a kicker.

The OL is a complete disaster outside the center, with the exception of O’Neil...

It’s time for Rudolf to retire, he has not been missed since he went down with injury.
The money they pay for his “leadership”and blocking is wasted space.

Playoff experience...

Getting steamrolled by a much better defense, which is what this team will face in the playoffs, will not help “develop the right attitude “ in our younger players.

Yea, they get additional money for a playoff game, win or lose, but I see no upside to it.

The only upside I can see is that maybe Zimmer will get embarrassed soo badly, that Wilf & Co. decide to move on.


Besides, I am not sure my heart can take 4 more weeks of nail biting, TV screaming at, anxiety.

It’s about me...

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who
Post #: 5505
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 4:13:33 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Elflein and Samia were rather high draft picks for inferior offensive lineman. We had hopes for them when they were drafted. Clearly it didn't work out. Our first round center has only been rather pedestrian, too.


Fixed your typo.


Lol! Touche'

By the way, I just read that the Saints star receiver Thomas is out for the season, which includes the game with the Vikings Friday. I don't know if that means the post season too.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5506
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 5:29:14 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 16487
Status: offline 		Hire the Boise state fg kicker, immediately

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who
Post #: 5507
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 5:30:22 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 16487
Status: offline 		50 yarder right down the middle

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who
Post #: 5508
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 5:36:39 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Elflein and Samia were rather high draft picks for inferior offensive lineman. We had hopes for them when they were drafted. Clearly it didn't work out. Our first round center has only been rather pedestrian, too.


Fixed your typo.


Lol! Touche'

By the way, I just read that the Saints star receiver Thomas is out for the season, which includes the game with the Vikings Friday. I don't know if that means the post season too.


Just read regular season
Post #: 5509
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 6:47:55 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Elflein and Samia were rather high draft picks for inferior offensive lineman. We had hopes for them when they were drafted. Clearly it didn't work out. Our first round center has only been rather pedestrian, too.


Fixed your typo.


Lol! Touche'

By the way, I just read that the Saints star receiver Thomas is out for the season, which includes the game with the Vikings Friday. I don't know if that means the post season too.


Just read regular season


If the Vikings make the post season the Saints are a very likely opponent. First thing first they have to make the playoffs.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5510
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2020 9:30:03 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

So..

You are a fan of doing the same thing over and over, even though the result is almost always the same...



Besides Udoh, what young guy isn't getting a chance this year.

Seems to me our whole season has been about seeing what the young guys can do.



Not many. But the implications if udoh is a good guard are huge. We'd only need 1 guard for next year with a pretty solid 4 out of 5 (assuming Reiff is gone). If we keep Reiff - we'd having the best making of an oline since 09. Reiff, Ezra, Bradbury, Udoh, ONeill. Draft S, DT, DE. [3rd WR and CB depth and developmental safety]. Our team could be pretty good next year.

< Message edited by Pager -- 12/20/2020 5:00:19 AM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 5511
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 12:35:26 AM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

So..

You are a fan of doing the same thing over and over, even though the result is almost always the same...



Besides Udoh, what young guy isn't getting a chance this year.

Seems to me our whole season has been about seeing what the young guys can do.

I've thought all along that this season was pegged as a soft rebuild, with CB, OG, and WR as clearly developmental projects. Strange what we've done with safety from that POV, though.
Post #: 5512
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 7:52:11 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 18183
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30003263/how-nfl-manipulating-scoring-2020-fewer-holding-calls-faster-games-way-more-offense

Interesting article

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5513
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 8:53:18 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30003263/how-nfl-manipulating-scoring-2020-fewer-holding-calls-faster-games-way-more-offense

Interesting article


For a run first oriented team, it feels like the Vikings have had more than their share of holding calls.

To my surprise, I was quickly able to find this stat page which shows that the Vikings are second in all of the league in yards penalized for holding. We've had more than our share of drives cut short by this, no doubt.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2019&view=team

And going down this list it shows that the most penalized Viking for holding is Bradbury with five, but honorable mention should be given to Elflein who was penalized four times in of course fewer games.

It does show that Bradbury has been struggling in the pass blocking and he has been trying to get away with holding to cover for his short comings. I suppose that he is doing better than last year and I imagine that his PFF grade would be considerably better if he didn't get the holding calls.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2019&view=players

One more thing: holding calls seem to be very much a function of the officiating crew. From this data it seems that certain crews call holding twice as much as other crews. That's quite a wide disparity.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2019&view=referee

Edit: Forgive me because I now realize that these stats are for 2019.

Here is the page for 2020. It shows that the Vikings are not as bad, but still on the high side.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/index.php?view=total&year=2020

And according to this page for this year, the award goes to (drum roll please) Dakota Dozier with seven already, but honorable mention should go to O'Neil who is closely following on his heels with six. To my surprise, Bradbury has only been charged twice, so he has indeed made progress in that way.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/all-players.php?year=2020

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 12/20/2020 9:15:19 AM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5514
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 9:19:38 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		A check on this page shows that the Vikings defense has been only charged four times this season for defensive holding. Credit should go to the young corners for not resorting to holding. It's interesting to note that there is one team, the LA Rams who have not been called for defensive holding yet this year. That is an amazing stat.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?view=team&year=2020

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5515
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 9:22:38 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 33234
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

With three games left..

Not looking to go very far IF the team makes the playoffs..

I would rather use the live playing time to evaluate the player we have, on the OL, LB, DL, and FFS, field goal kickers.

Why are all the guys we get for kicking, either, able to boom a kick off out of the end zone, or make an extra point, consitantly?

When do we find competency at both?

I think there is a bit of truth to ST play suffering because ST players have become starters, but... I recall that in the past, some of our better starters on defense, also played on ST.

It seems the team has gone away from that, which is puzzling.

I understand not wanting to gas or risk additional injury to starting players, by putting them out there, but if poor special teams play is a result of lack of leadership, and talent, which is causing poor execution and bad field positions and points given up?

What is the advantage?

None IMO.


I would argue that even one playoff game would be important for our young guys, going forward.


Equally ridiculous, even one playoff game would allow RS and Zimmer to pad their worthless resume.
Post #: 5516
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 10:29:12 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

A check on this page shows that the Vikings defense has been only charged four times this season for defensive holding. Credit should go to the young corners for not resorting to holding. It's interesting to note that there is one team, the LA Rams who have not been called for defensive holding yet this year. That is an amazing stat.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/defensive-holding?view=team&year=2020


Curious that they don't have the 10 yard variety of defensive holding listed, the one where typically a defensive lineman holds the offensive lineman so he can't continue his block ie get to the next level.
Post #: 5517
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 2:41:59 PM   
odin


Posts: 2322
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		5 min 28 second drive for a TD. That's great, but but wasted a couple minutes by huddling and waiting so long to hike it. We may need that additional time at the end of the game.
Post #: 5518
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 3:09:49 PM   
odin


Posts: 2322
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		Last drives prior to the failed 4th down and bear fg.

Vikings 11 plays 75 yds. 328 seconds 29.8 seconds per play
Bears 9 plays 65 yards 308 seconds 34.2 seconds per play

We used only about 4 seconds less per play when the Bears are trying to kill the clock. Would have been nice to have even an extra minute on the last drive. This has been an ongoing problem and never gets corrected.

< Message edited by odin -- 12/20/2020 3:12:40 PM >
Post #: 5519
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 3:37:12 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Only the Vikings give up pressure on 3 man rush on a Hail Mary.

Vikeologist on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5520
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 3:42:33 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline 		Posted this in the gameday thread:

Fish rots from the head. Wilfs sign off on Chilly, Frazier, Zimmer, Triangle of Authority, Spielman. They have yet to move into the modern era.

Here's news for those Giants fans: Sam Huff and YA Tittle ain't walkin' through that door.
Post #: 5521
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 3:47:32 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I guess we can't be saved from the Minnesota sports abyss.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5522
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 3:51:02 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 18183
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Thoughts

-Zero sense of urgency
-Play calling and play designs were atrocious.
-Dozier is a mutt
-Dline gets manhandled by a bottom talented oline.
-Kendricks is really important.
-Overall roster depth is just flat out bad (maybe we need more 7th rd picks).

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5523
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 4:06:42 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Thoughts

-Zero sense of urgency
-Play calling and play designs were atrocious.
-Dozier is a mutt
-Dline gets manhandled by a bottom talented oline.
-Kendricks is really important.
-Overall roster depth is just flat out bad (maybe we need more 7th rd picks).


The Bears were missing three corners, weren't they? You would have thought that could have been exploited better, but you know that Cousins was getting hit/ and or running for his life whenever he went back to pass.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5524
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/20/2020 4:16:13 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I was watching the game and seeing the Bears drive down the field again and again and again and I just thought the Vikings are not good enough. They don't deserve to be in the playoffs. If they could have squeezed in they would have not advanced anyway. The Vikings have a 4% chance still to make the playoffs, but I don't care. They are just not that good.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5525
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