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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:45:20 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

A good qb is great with a solid OL

a decent QB is good with a solid OL.

does anyone think that cousins is not at least decent?

Don't waste a jewel in cook. Bill u r right about cook

Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts, DeSean Watson and Justin Herbert have some of the worst offensive lines in football. They make it work because they can feel pressure and take off and run.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 5601

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:45:49 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Uh oh. An empty stadium means the microphones are able to pick up more of the on-field chatter. Justin Jefferson had something to say after a play. Here's the actual clip and it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK - it has the F word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8AfE6ucjk

And here's a story on it

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/20/justin-jefferson-says-hes-no-diva-in-response-to-clip-of-him-yelling-about-kirk-cousins/

Thielen was dissatisfied and called out Cousins

Diggs was dissatisfied and forced a trade

Now it starts with Jefferson, boy that didn't take long.

I remember somebody posting yesterday that Pete Bercich was saying that Jefferson was open most of the day.

That was me, I was on the road so listened on the radio which (side note - was fascinating and frustrating all at once). He said if the Vikes wanted a nine-yard completion it was there with Jefferson all day.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5602

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:45:52 AM

geoffrey greitzer

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

any chance zimmer goes....I dont see it.

Post #: 5603

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:48:23 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Uh oh. An empty stadium means the microphones are able to pick up more of the on-field chatter. Justin Jefferson had something to say after a play. Here's the actual clip and it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK - it has the F word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8AfE6ucjk

And here's a story on it

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/20/justin-jefferson-says-hes-no-diva-in-response-to-clip-of-him-yelling-about-kirk-cousins/

Thielen was dissatisfied and called out Cousins

Diggs was dissatisfied and forced a trade

Now it starts with Jefferson, boy that didn't take long.

But on that particular play... jailbreak city. KC running left. Defenders in the area. It was a chance type pass.

Post #: 5604

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:48:24 AM

geoffrey greitzer

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

You are throwing in qb's that r mobile.

cousins is not a running qb...he has gotten better in last few games but not a runner.

OL that is the key. even if qb goes down you have a chance...

Post #: 5605

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:50:36 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Uh oh. An empty stadium means the microphones are able to pick up more of the on-field chatter. Justin Jefferson had something to say after a play. Here's the actual clip and it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK - it has the F word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8AfE6ucjk

And here's a story on it

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/20/justin-jefferson-says-hes-no-diva-in-response-to-clip-of-him-yelling-about-kirk-cousins/

Thielen was dissatisfied and called out Cousins

Diggs was dissatisfied and forced a trade

Now it starts with Jefferson, boy that didn't take long.

But on that particular play... jailbreak city. KC running left. Defenders in the area. It was a chance type pass.

We can't see what happened earlier in the play. It starts with Kirk in a clean pocket and my guess is that Jefferson was running to the corner of the endzone.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5606

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:52:10 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12170
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Uh oh. An empty stadium means the microphones are able to pick up more of the on-field chatter. Justin Jefferson had something to say after a play. Here's the actual clip and it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK - it has the F word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8AfE6ucjk

And here's a story on it

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/20/justin-jefferson-says-hes-no-diva-in-response-to-clip-of-him-yelling-about-kirk-cousins/

Thielen was dissatisfied and called out Cousins

Diggs was dissatisfied and forced a trade

Now it starts with Jefferson, boy that didn't take long.

No reason to not believe Cousins missed JJ a few times.

But, you have Hicks and 2 other journeyman DTs with free runs to the QB all day. That might cause someone to bail out or try to protect their body instead of keeping your eyes down field.

That is why we need to either overhaul this OLine(with proven guys,Thuney, etc..) or draft a dual purpose guy(Lance, Wilson, Trask)

Post #: 5607

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:52:44 AM

geoffrey greitzer

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

ok...zimmer will stay... would rather not

Kubiak probably stays as well

cousins stays...his contract is his contract...Now what?

number 14...QB? or trade down and get OL in first 2 picks.. then go DL, lb

Post #: 5608

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:55:13 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12170
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

A good qb is great with a solid OL

a decent QB is good with a solid OL.

does anyone think that cousins is not at least decent?

Don't waste a jewel in cook. Bill u r right about cook

Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Jalen Hurts, DeSean Watson and Justin Herbert have some of the worst offensive lines in football. They make it work because they can feel pressure and take off and run.

Didn't San Diego draft all those Olineman you wanted instead of Cook?

Post #: 5609

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 10:58:26 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

KC is almost assuredly staying in 2021. QB could still be the biggest need because Cousins isn't getting $45 million in 2022.

Biggest gaps:
- G
- G (assuming Cleveland to LT)
- DE (depending on Hunter's status)
- 3T
- S/LB

Priorities:
- QB
- OL
- DL

Post #: 5610

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:00:08 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45020
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.

Bottom line is that Cousins is not worth anything close to what he is being paid. He is also not close to one of the ten worst QB in football.

Name 10 starting quarterbacks that are worse.

Mullens
Lock
Goff
Jones

What's you're measure? Cousins is 3rd in yards per attempt, 13th in yards on one of the run heaviest teams in football, 7th in TD. 8th in quarterback rating , 13th in completion %, and 2nd in interceptions.

He is a mixed bag, to be sure, but his over all numbers put him in the upper half of QB. Nothing remotely close to $30+ M QB, but it ain't his fault that Spielman offered him that kind of money. Put him behind a reasonably good O-line and in an offensive scheme that isn't 50 years old and his numbers likely get much better.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 5611

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:03:17 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.

Bottom line is that Cousins is not worth anything close to what he is being paid. He is also not close to one of the ten worst QB in football.

Name 10 starting quarterbacks that are worse.

Mullens
Lock
Goff
Jones

What's you're measure? Cousins is 3rd in yards per attempt, 13th in yards on one of the run heaviest teams in football, 7th in TD. 8th in quarterback rating , 13th in completion %, and 2nd in interceptions.

He is a mixed bag, to be sure, but his over all numbers put him in the upper half of QB. Nothing remotely close to $30+ M QB, but it ain't his fault that Spielman offered him that kind of money. Put him behind a reasonably good O-line and in an offensive scheme that isn't 50 years old and his numbers likely get much better.

I agree with some of that, but my most important metric is what kind of a leader is he? IMO, he is not a leader of men. Never has been. Never will be. There is no stats for that.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/21/2020 11:04:23 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 5612

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:05:10 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

It does no good to harp about why we have KC. And he has a $41 million dead cap hit next year. With a $31 million charge, he could be released but it's very doubtful.

Geez, it's like JC yelling for months about not accepting mediocrity. We get it. Why piss in the wind?

Post #: 5613

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:05:36 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I think we remain at 14th in the draft. Maybe take an undersized guard. Zone blocking and all.

I get the whole concept that the modern lineman needs to be athletic enough to get off his first block and move to the next tier. The problem is that it only works if you can effectively if you can move that first guy. How many times have we seen that 3rd or 4th and really shortage play get stuffed in the backfield because because the middle of the other guys D line blew through the middle of our O line like shit through a goose.

Was thinking that while posting the blurb. It all sounds great on paper except as you say, the plays where you need to win the battle at the LOS, and of course passing plays.

Exactly! The bottom line for O-line play is if you can't win that initial battle, nothing else you do on the play matters.

I'm not saying we don't have issues at OL, and yes not every run play is a resounding success, but we did rush for 158 yards at 5.6 yards a clip yesterday against one of the leagues stingiest run defenses.

Post #: 5614

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:06:43 AM

geoffrey greitzer

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Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

If it wasnt for the last few games I would have done anything to bite the bullet and cap hell.

BUT, cousins has improved. and know that he will be here next year.

Book in late rounds? Someone for possible future. Have a ton of weapons need to have a chance to use them.

Post #: 5615

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:11:59 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12170
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It does no good to harp about why we have KC. And he has a $41 million dead cap hit next year. With a $31 million charge, he could be released but it's very doubtful.

Geez, it's like JC yelling for months about not accepting mediocrity. We get it. Why piss in the wind?

It would be the perfect year to draft Lance or Wilson.

Sit for a year(Mahomes did) and become starting QB in 2022.

Post #: 5616

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:14:16 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

If it wasnt for the last few games I would have done anything to bite the bullet and cap hell.

BUT, cousins has improved. and know that he will be here next year.

Book in late rounds? Someone for possible future. Have a ton of weapons need to have a chance to use them.

We don't have a ton of weapons for the future.

- Theilen. His peak years were 2017-18 and as he enters his 30s will never see that again.
- TE. Somehow if you could mix Rudolph, Smith, and Conklin together there might be a real weapon. Questionmarks.
- JJ. Yes, something to build around.
- Cook. Super RB when healthy. # of carries adding up, and not in a good way.
- No 3 WR to speak of. Quite terrible in fact for modern football.

So we have JJ and Cook.

Post #: 5617

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:14:21 AM

Bruce Johnson

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According to @PFF,
Kirk Cousins has been pressured at least 35 percent of the time in 11 of the #Vikings’ 14 games this season, and in every game since the win over the Packers on Nov. 1. Bears got to him 41.4 percent of the time on Sunday.

(Ben Goessling on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 5618

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:17:23 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
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Then get rid of the damn ball.

Post #: 5619

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:17:26 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Until the #Vikings final desperation drive, they had seven 2nd-and-short opportunities. They ran it all seven times, on a down where they have a chance to be most aggressive.
Yes, they converted five of seven. But they turned down opportunities to be more explosive.

Sam Ekstrom on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 5620

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:19:18 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12170
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

According to @PFF,
Kirk Cousins has been pressured at least 35 percent of the time in 11 of the #Vikings’ 14 games this season, and in every game since the win over the Packers on Nov. 1. Bears got to him 41.4 percent of the time on Sunday.

(Ben Goessling on Twitter)

I'm guessing our pressure % was about 5%. Trubisky had cleanest pocket I have seen all year.

Post #: 5621

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:22:42 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12170
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

If it wasnt for the last few games I would have done anything to bite the bullet and cap hell.

BUT, cousins has improved. and know that he will be here next year.

Book in late rounds? Someone for possible future. Have a ton of weapons need to have a chance to use them.

We don't have a ton of weapons for the future.

- Theilen. His peak years were 2017-18 and as he enters his 30s will never see that again.
- TE. Somehow if you could mix Rudolph, Smith, and Conklin together there might be a real weapon. Questionmarks.
- JJ. Yes, something to build around.
- Cook. Super RB when healthy. # of carries adding up, and not in a good way.
- No 3 WR to speak of. Quite terrible in fact for modern football.

So we have JJ and Cook.

Thielen: yep, we need to find a burner for a 3rd WR that would help both him and JJ get some single coverage.

TE: We are set. Smith, Conklin and Dillon

Post #: 5622

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:25:25 AM

geoffrey greitzer

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Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Theilan older yes, agreed

JJ stud...Cook stud.

better wr and rb combo in league? I cant think of one.

Post #: 5623

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:26:21 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45020
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

If it wasnt for the last few games I would have done anything to bite the bullet and cap hell.

BUT, cousins has improved. and know that he will be here next year.

Book in late rounds? Someone for possible future. Have a ton of weapons need to have a chance to use them.

We don't have a ton of weapons for the future.

- Theilen. His peak years were 2017-18 and as he enters his 30s will never see that again.
- TE. Somehow if you could mix Rudolph, Smith, and Conklin together there might be a real weapon. Questionmarks.
- JJ. Yes, something to build around.
- Cook. Super RB when healthy. # of carries adding up, and not in a good way.
- No 3 WR to speak of. Quite terrible in fact for modern football.

So we have JJ and Cook.

Thielen: yep, we need to find a burner for a 3rd WR that would help both him and JJ get some single coverage.

TE: We are set. Smith, Conklin and Dillon

Agreed. I'm not at all concerned about going into next year with that trio.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 5624

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 11:27:13 AM

SoMnFan