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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 5:07:57 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

So

If the rumors that Hunter wants to be the top paid DE in NFL are true,

I'd be inclined to try and trade him for a top 5 draft pick (Dallas?)

And take Wilson with the pick.

Then best OL next (or move back a little and get 2 best Guards with the capital).

Just dreaming.

First we need to dump Spiels and Zimmer.

Possibly another dream...

We'd need to draft a top DE too or do you plan to go another season with no pass rush?

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Post #: 5701
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 5:12:20 PM   
kevinemmer


Posts: 4659
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

So

If the rumors that Hunter wants to be the top paid DE in NFL are true,

I'd be inclined to try and trade him for a top 5 draft pick (Dallas?)

And take Wilson with the pick.

Then best OL next (or move back a little and get 2 best Guards with the capital).

Just dreaming.

First we need to dump Spiels and Zimmer.

Possibly another dream...


Spiels isnt't going anywhere. They will point to Jefferson, Gladney, Dantzler and Cleveland being in the starting lineup with Wonum and Lynch making contributions and call it a successful draft, no matter how much better it could have been.

I don't think Zim is going anywhere either. They will point to Pierce, Hunter, Kendricks, Barr, etc. being out and give him a pass.


Agreed, unfortunately.

They will also point at Covid, even though the rest of the league had to deal with it too.
Post #: 5702
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 5:16:19 PM   
kevinemmer


Posts: 4659
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

So

If the rumors that Hunter wants to be the top paid DE in NFL are true,

I'd be inclined to try and trade him for a top 5 draft pick (Dallas?)

And take Wilson with the pick.

Then best OL next (or move back a little and get 2 best Guards with the capital).

Just dreaming.

First we need to dump Spiels and Zimmer.

Possibly another dream...

We'd need to draft a top DE too or do you plan to go another season with no pass rush?


Very true.

Wonnum and Odin ain't enough.

Change plan to Best Guard and DE with draft capital gained from trade back from #14
(or whatever it is) hopefully higher with 6-10 record.....
Post #: 5703
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 5:31:09 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

KC is almost assuredly staying in 2021. QB could still be the biggest need because Cousins isn't getting $45 million in 2022.

Biggest gaps:
- G
- G (assuming Cleveland to LT)
- DE (depending on Hunter's status)
- 3T
- S/LB

Priorities:
- QB
- OL
- DL

After the third day of the 2021 league year his $45ml for 2022 becomes guarenteed.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5704
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 5:53:38 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.

Bottom line is that Cousins is not worth anything close to what he is being paid. He is also not close to one of the ten worst QB in football.

Name 10 starting quarterbacks that are worse.

Mullens
Lock
Goff
Jones


It's actually closer than I thought:

Better than:
Cam Newton
Darnold
Carr
Smith
Trubisky

Debatable:

Bridgewater
Garoppolo
Wentz
Ryan
Tua
Burrow




Let me help:
Better than: Cam, Smith/Hoskins, Trubisky, Darnold Carr, Lock, Stafford, Garropolo, Wentz, Ryan, Tua, Burrow, Herbert, Rivers, Minshew, Jones, Teddy, Baker Mayfield, and Goff.

I would take Darnold, Carr, Stafford, Herbert, Burrow or Bridgewater over him. Herbert and Burrow are going to be stars. Stafford and Carr are aggressive and often that's what gets them in trouble, but at least they are trying to win games and have the ability to lead their teams to a comeback.

You'll get no arguments from me on Cam, Trubisky, Lock, Wentz, Ryan, Jones or Goff. IMO, Goff is arguably the worst quarterback in the league. He is killing the Rams.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/21/2020 5:59:19 PM >

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Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5705
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 6:14:04 PM   
Burns


Posts: 592
Status: offline 		So many brilliant football minds on this forum. I can't believe some of you are wasting your time posting in here and aren’t running an organization. Fire the front office, fire the coaches, change the schemes, trade or cut half the players, then we will have something! Gonna be another long and fun offseason in Viking land. But on a different note, Merry Christmas everyone and I hope you have a great holiday season!

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Post #: 5706
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 6:53:23 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

KC is almost assuredly staying in 2021. QB could still be the biggest need because Cousins isn't getting $45 million in 2022.

Biggest gaps:
- G
- G (assuming Cleveland to LT)
- DE (depending on Hunter's status)
- 3T
- S/LB

Priorities:
- QB
- OL
- DL

I believe that $45 million locks in almost immediately this offseason. The choice is eat all the dead cap with no QB this year or accept the last two years fully guaranteed, and the choice happens almost right away when the league (and offseason) starts.


For better or for worse, the Vikings are keeping Cousins next year. Depending on how things shake out the last two games we could be drafting in the top 10. If so, does Spielman grab an OG or QBOTF? Assuming Hunter and Pierce are okay next year, 2 OG's and a 3T DT could make this team a superbowl contender, plus Spielman has shown he's an abject failure drafting olinemen after the 2nd rd. However, its not often (thankfully) that the Vikes are in a position to draft a legit QBOTF.



2 OG's and a 3T DT could make this team a superbowl contender.

With Beebe at 3WR? Jones at nickel/dime? Unknown at S? Assuming all 3 (G, G, 3T) work out? Bradbury? The coaching? Game management?

There is fandom and there is.... Wow!


LOL! The Vikings 3rd WR isn't going to be the determining factor as to whether or not they're a superbowl contender.

And yes, that's assuming all 3 positions work out. I guess I should have said 2 "good" OG's and a "good" DT? Seemed kind of obvious in the context of my statement...

I think Bradbury has taken a step forward this year and with decent players on either side of him it's logical to expect further improvement.

Could coaching and game management sink the team's chances? Of course, but on paper, the Vikings absolutely have the talent to be contenders next year.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 5707
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 6:58:54 PM   
paulgly

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/13/2020
Status: offline 		I believe Spielman may have crushed this draft. And this is coming from someone who still believes he should be on the thinnest of ice. Jefferson is clearly a star already - which is incredibly rare for a WR. Dantzler has Pro Bowl potential IMO (he's been one of the highest graded CBs in the NFL the past few weeks). I think Gladney can be a very solid slot CB. Jury still out on Cleveland. Wonnum has potential and I think could greatly benefit playing on the other side of Hunter. Honestly, if you hit on 5 guys in a draft as solid starters (and again, jury is still out), that should be considered a very good draft. I believe it could be on par with the 2015 draft.

The problem is all the years in between that have been mediocre at best. And his failures on the offensive line and QB will prove to be the undoing IMO. I will say the 2nd half of this year has been Cousins' best football - at least since he's been in purple. He is getting better in the pocket, and escaping pressure. Definitely still holds on to the ball too long. But he has been saddled with some of the worst interior offensive line play I've ever seen. Whether you go by PFF grades or the eye test, I don't know who could dispute that. And say what you want about the guy - he always gets back up. Never misses a game. He absolutely needs to trust his receivers more. I think he's a better than average QB though. Just a terrible fit with a bad offensive line. That's what Keenum brought in 2017; I don't think the OL was any great shakes, he could just move around a lot better.

I don't think we can take a significant step with this philosophy. Our 2 minute offense is embarrassing. It's week 14 and the same s**t keeps happening. The playcalling sucks, but even beyond that, it seems like people don't where they're supposed to be. Nothing like 8-9 minute drives when you're trying to make up a 18 point deficit. Just....a facepalm. I do think they need a coaching enema, and wouldn't be overly sad if that meant Spielman is gone too. I think Zimmer is a good coach, but his fatal flaws in game management, clock management, people management, are the reason we will never get there with him. The way we play leaves zero margin for error - and that's with a good defense.

< Message edited by paulgly -- 12/21/2020 7:03:53 PM >
Post #: 5708
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 7:04:44 PM   
paulgly

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/13/2020
Status: offline 		how the hell do you put more than 1 space between sentences on here? I'm sorry about the wall of text above haha!
Post #: 5709
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 7:09:10 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		A nice video here showing off the hands of Jefferson with some of his best catches.

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1341163691241291779?s=20

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5710
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 7:33:55 PM   
Arlowe84

 

Posts: 331
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

So

If the rumors that Hunter wants to be the top paid DE in NFL are true,

I'd be inclined to try and trade him for a top 5 draft pick (Dallas?)

And take Wilson with the pick.

Then best OL next (or move back a little and get 2 best Guards with the capital).

Just dreaming.

First we need to dump Spiels and Zimmer.

Possibly another dream...

We'd need to draft a top DE too or do you plan to go another season with no pass rush?


Very true.

Wonnum and Odin ain't enough.

Change plan to Best Guard and DE with draft capital gained from trade back from #14
(or whatever it is) hopefully higher with 6-10 record.....


Funny you guys talk about that.
Did you watch the Giants Cle game last night? They were talking about how good the Giants D line is vs the run (and they are), but how they need a pass rushing DE to take their D to another level.

I was actually thinking how it would make sense to trade Hunter.
It's questionable whether he wants to be on the team, and apparently there is a contract rift with the team.

If you could trade him to the NY Giants for their 1st and 2nd rounder....would you do it?
I would. I have questions too about his long term health.
Anytime you have spine and neck issues.....not good.
Trading Hunter for 2 top picks could be a way to start rebuilding this D.
Post #: 5711
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 8:35:21 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		Mackenzie Alexander is having a monster of a game for the bengals tonight!

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5712
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/21/2020 8:59:34 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Mackenzie Alexander is having a monster of a game for the bengals tonight!


Probably the best I've ever seen him play... breaking on passes like he knows the play.
Post #: 5713
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 1:31:06 AM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 14000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulgly

how the hell do you put more than 1 space between sentences on here? I'm sorry about the wall of text above haha!

You have to hit return. The software won’t show spaces unless you use dots.......

I always break long post up with double returns.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 12/22/2020 1:32:27 AM >

_____________________________

**** you all.
Post #: 5714
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 2:28:04 AM   
Viking Rich

 

Posts: 3731
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I think we remain at 14th in the draft. Maybe take an undersized guard. Zone blocking and all.

Good point. So tired of these undersized guards getting tossed around like ragdolls.

Give me some monsters that smash people.

_____________________________

Here Comes the 2nd and Long Run...
Post #: 5715
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 8:13:11 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Kind of thought the Steelers were a bit of a mirage this year.

They don't look like they could beat anybody right now.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5716
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 8:16:24 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Kind of thought the Steelers were a bit of a mirage this year.

They don't look like they could beat anybody right now.


Something is wrong with Ben. It’s undisclosed yet fantasy advice people were ranking him really low this week and saying something is up with his ability to throw with velocity. It showed.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5717
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 10:19:21 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39278
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

So

If the rumors that Hunter wants to be the top paid DE in NFL are true,

I'd be inclined to try and trade him for a top 5 draft pick (Dallas?)

And take Wilson with the pick.

Then best OL next (or move back a little and get 2 best Guards with the capital).

Just dreaming.

First we need to dump Spiels and Zimmer.

Possibly another dream...

We'd need to draft a top DE too or do you plan to go another season with no pass rush?


Very true.

Wonnum and Odin ain't enough.

Change plan to Best Guard and DE with draft capital gained from trade back from #14
(or whatever it is) hopefully higher with 6-10 record.....


Funny you guys talk about that.
Did you watch the Giants Cle game last night? They were talking about how good the Giants D line is vs the run (and they are), but how they need a pass rushing DE to take their D to another level.

I was actually thinking how it would make sense to trade Hunter.
It's questionable whether he wants to be on the team, and apparently there is a contract rift with the team.

If you could trade him to the NY Giants for their 1st and 2nd rounder....would you do it?
I would. I have questions too about his long term health.
Anytime you have spine and neck issues.....not good.
Trading Hunter for 2 top picks could be a way to start rebuilding this D.



I think you guys are dreaming if you think we can get even one first round pick.

We'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 5718
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 10:24:34 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39278
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline 		I want to say that Tyler Conklin is making me a believer.

That TD run was a thing of beauty. He catches the ball, and does something with it after the catch. and doesn't just go down on first contact. Rudy would've been tackled on that play.

Plus TC is a better blocker...

More complete package and more consistant than Irv Smith Jr.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 5719
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 10:25:58 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

So

If the rumors that Hunter wants to be the top paid DE in NFL are true,

I'd be inclined to try and trade him for a top 5 draft pick (Dallas?)

And take Wilson with the pick.

Then best OL next (or move back a little and get 2 best Guards with the capital).

Just dreaming.

First we need to dump Spiels and Zimmer.

Possibly another dream...


I think he knows he needs to comeback and have a monster year before anybody is going to care what he thinks he should get.
Post #: 5720
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 10:57:52 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I want to say that Tyler Conklin is making me a believer.

That TD run was a thing of beauty. He catches the ball, and does something with it after the catch. and doesn't just go down on first contact. Rudy would've been tackled on that play.

Plus TC is a better blocker...

More complete package and more consistant than Irv Smith Jr.


He's shown it in the past two seasons as well. In those two seasons we gave him all of seventeen targets which he turned into thirteen catches for 135 yards. This year we've given him fourteen targets which he's turned into twelve catches for 123 yards and a TD. We took him in the fifth round of the 2018 draft. Next year will be the final year of his four-year deal and only now are we figuring out he's as good or better than Rudolph.

Fire Spielman. Fire Zimmer.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5721
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 11:03:59 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I want to say that Tyler Conklin is making me a believer.

That TD run was a thing of beauty. He catches the ball, and does something with it after the catch. and doesn't just go down on first contact. Rudy would've been tackled on that play.

Plus TC is a better blocker...

More complete package and more consistant than Irv Smith Jr.


His earlier reception was just as impressive.

Caught the ball immediately turned upfield and when the defense held up a bit because it looked like he as heading out of bounds, he cut back towards the middle of the field and picked up a bunch of extra yards.

He's probably our best TE.
Post #: 5722
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 11:40:11 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Making the Pro Bowl as an NFC inside linebacker over Bucs’ Devin White and Lavonte David was the 49ers’ Fred Warner, who has no sacks, no forced fumbles, two INTs, four TFLs and 101 tackles.

(Greg Auman on Twitter)

Or Kendricks.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5723
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 11:44:41 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Conklin is a big guy. Coaches need to burn it into his mind that he can run over people.

Rudy hasnt exactly set a good example of this

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5724
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/22/2020 12:01:21 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Conklin is a big guy. Coaches need to burn it into his mind that he can run over people.

Rudy hasnt exactly set a good example of this


I'm pretty sure he knows that already.

Its on the coaches for not using him more.
Post #: 5725
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