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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 1:36:35 PM

Phil Riewer

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I remember when they had Easton and Berger at guards and their line was at least functional. That was when we had trouble at tackle....now (trouble at guard).

Solution....keep using draft resources on oline before the mid/late rounds(every year).

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Post #: 551

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 2:05:34 PM

Pager

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100% apologize as Johnny come lately

I don't have time/energy to reread.

a 9.92 is a great indicator of a LT's ceiling. Couple years ago posted an article, and they listed something like a decade of the all pro LT's RAS score. All of them had a RAS of above 9.

Doesn't mean Ezra is a surefire but I thought/think the team building decision about Ezra, Reiff, Elf, Dozier, Udoh have been fire-able recently. Well more than just recent.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 552

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 2:17:28 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Hopefully Cleveland got some functional strength last year. Now it is likely (?) he has to get back to being a tackle. Probably regressed there through no fault of his own.

Post #: 553

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/12/2021 6:22:13 AM

Bill Jandro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I'm with David - he never should have been moved from LT. And as I advocated prior to the season, I would have cut/traded Reiff and gone for guard help and let Ezra take his lumps at LT.

At the very least he should have played at LT week 17 vs Hill.

That all important victory was more important than getting a better feel for next years roster.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 554

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/12/2021 8:45:53 AM

TJSweens

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I honestly won't be surprised if they keep Cleveland at guard. He did one thing very well last year that the Vikings emphasize in their guard play. He gets to the second and third level of the defense in the run game. If they believe they can shore up his pass blocking at the position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he lines up at guard next year. I also can't believe that they would take someone they envision as their long term LT and burn that crucial first year of development by playing him at guard. Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of what the Vikings do with the O-line makes no sense.

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Post #: 555

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/12/2021 9:24:59 AM

marty

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TJ, what you say makes a lot of sense.

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Post #: 556

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/12/2021 9:36:10 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

TJ, what you say makes a lot of sense.

I don't know how much sense it makes, but it fits the Vikings MO. Draft an O-lineman without any vision as to where you intend to play him. Move him from his natural position because they failed miserably to address the interior line. Then, after the year, cut the player we initially thought he would replace at his natural position, only Cleveland didn't practice a single rep at his natural position last year. Now we are in an offseason where it is unclear what they will do with LT and Cleveland. Another year. Another Spielman O-line clusterf***.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 557

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/12/2021 4:58:08 PM

Pager

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I honestly won't be surprised if they keep Cleveland at guard. He did one thing very well last year that the Vikings emphasize in their guard play. He gets to the second and third level of the defense in the run game. If they believe they can shore up his pass blocking at the position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he lines up at guard next year. I also can't believe that they would take someone they envision as their long term LT and burn that crucial first year of development by playing him at guard. Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of what the Vikings do with the O-line makes no sense.

It's not uncommon for a rookie to get pushed to Guard before moving back out to T. I think the interesting thing was the FO giving Reiff an ultimatum right before the season. Maybe their plan was to have Hill be the starting LT, or flip Oneil to LT - but more likely IMO was if Reiff had refused and been cut, Ezra would have been inserted at LT.

A lot will depend on the draft and FA - be interesting how the draft comes together.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 558

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 9:16:53 AM

Bruce Johnson

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If the Vikings don't do trades (and you know they will) they will be really busy at the beginning of day three. They also have two picks in round three, so between pick #79 and pick #172 (that's only 94 selections) they get eight players. Every year there are players that are projected to go in the late second round to third round, but actually go later than expected. I mean, all of the players projected to be selected in the second or third rounds can not possibly go there. Too many players. Then there hopefully can be diamonds in the rough. Players like Hunter or Mattison who the Vikings can see potential in that is not for all to see on the surface. Well, sometimes that potential never does surface, but here's hoping that they do well during that stretch. Those will be names that we don't talk about a lot here. Players that we're not familiar with.

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 559

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 9:36:20 AM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I honestly won't be surprised if they keep Cleveland at guard. He did one thing very well last year that the Vikings emphasize in their guard play. He gets to the second and third level of the defense in the run game. If they believe they can shore up his pass blocking at the position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he lines up at guard next year. I also can't believe that they would take someone they envision as their long term LT and burn that crucial first year of development by playing him at guard. Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of what the Vikings do with the O-line makes no sense.

It's not uncommon for a rookie to get pushed to Guard before moving back out to T. I think the interesting thing was the FO giving Reiff an ultimatum right before the season. Maybe their plan was to have Hill be the starting LT, or flip Oneil to LT - but more likely IMO was if Reiff had refused and been cut, Ezra would have been inserted at LT.

A lot will depend on the draft and FA - be interesting how the draft comes together.

Although not exactly equivalent, drafting Cleveland seemed similar to drafting Hughes where there wasn't a clear current needed but the pick had elements of insurance and heir-apparencie (not a word) to it knowing they eventually couldn't pay both Rhodes and Waynes.

Last year was wait around mode for Cleveland. I don't know if the stint at G helped him, hopefully it did, but he did lose focused training for tackle.

Post #: 560

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 9:37:50 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

If the Vikings don't do trades (and you know they will) they will be really busy at the beginning of day three. They also have two picks in round three, so between pick #79 and pick #172 (that's only 94 selections) they get eight players. Every year there are players that are projected to go in the late second round to third round, but actually go later than expected. I mean, all of the players projected to be selected in the second or third rounds can not possibly go there. Too many players. Then there hopefully can be diamonds in the rough. Players like Hunter or Mattison who the Vikings can see potential in that is not for all to see on the surface. Well, sometimes that potential never does surface, but here's hoping that they do well during that stretch. Those will be names that we don't talk about a lot here. Players that we're not familiar with.

Anything past round three is a likely project, and anything past round four is unlikely to be a guy that can make his mark in the NFL. The GM has really made it hard for this team to improve this off-season. Bad contracts and bad draft strategies should have gotten this guy fired 12-24 months ago. Last season we looked like a team with a bunch of 4th-7th rounders on the field. It's hard to win that way.

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Post #: 561

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 10:30:10 AM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I honestly won't be surprised if they keep Cleveland at guard. He did one thing very well last year that the Vikings emphasize in their guard play. He gets to the second and third level of the defense in the run game. If they believe they can shore up his pass blocking at the position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he lines up at guard next year. I also can't believe that they would take someone they envision as their long term LT and burn that crucial first year of development by playing him at guard. Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of what the Vikings do with the O-line makes no sense.

It's not uncommon for a rookie to get pushed to Guard before moving back out to T. I think the interesting thing was the FO giving Reiff an ultimatum right before the season. Maybe their plan was to have Hill be the starting LT, or flip Oneil to LT - but more likely IMO was if Reiff had refused and been cut, Ezra would have been inserted at LT.

A lot will depend on the draft and FA - be interesting how the draft comes together.

Although not exactly equivalent, drafting Cleveland seemed similar to drafting Hughes where there wasn't a clear current needed but the pick had elements of insurance and heir-apparencie (not a word) to it knowing they eventually couldn't pay both Rhodes and Waynes.

Last year was wait around mode for Cleveland. I don't know if the stint at G helped him, hopefully it did, but he did lose focused training for tackle.

Yes lost focused training in-season but last offseason didn't really offer that. He wasn't going to play if they just practiced him on the outside.

Atleast he got in some real game / nfl DL exposure, albeit inside.

With a full offseason of focused T training this year, if they go that route, that live action exposure will help him more than the second team practice reps he would have lost on the outside. Hopefully.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 3/14/2021 11:21:21 AM >

Post #: 562

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 11:02:28 AM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

If the Vikings don't do trades (and you know they will) they will be really busy at the beginning of day three. They also have two picks in round three, so between pick #79 and pick #172 (that's only 94 selections) they get eight players. Every year there are players that are projected to go in the late second round to third round, but actually go later than expected. I mean, all of the players projected to be selected in the second or third rounds can not possibly go there. Too many players. Then there hopefully can be diamonds in the rough. Players like Hunter or Mattison who the Vikings can see potential in that is not for all to see on the surface. Well, sometimes that potential never does surface, but here's hoping that they do well during that stretch. Those will be names that we don't talk about a lot here. Players that we're not familiar with.

Anything past round three is a likely project, and anything past round four is unlikely to be a guy that can make his mark in the NFL. The GM has really made it hard for this team to improve this off-season. Bad contracts and bad draft strategies should have gotten this guy fired 12-24 months ago. Last season we looked like a team with a bunch of 4th-7th rounders on the field. It's hard to win that way.

The defense looked that way. Spielman has gone from working up multiple first rd picks as a strategy to the opposite. It's an acknowledgement that he is just flinging as much crap as he can against the wall.

In Spielman's first 3 yrs as GM he had 7 first rd picks. Yes that included Patterson and Kalil ... but also Smith Rhodes Barr and Teddy. Without the freak injuries to Floyd and Teddy that would have been 5 solid or better starters in the first 3 drafts and one good starting year out of Kalil (+ the 3 late picks they screwed CLE for).

True, we had two 1st rders last year after a 5 year hiatus ... which look pretty good ... but drafting for late rd overall volume since the 2014 draft has gotten us Diggs and a massive pile of non-stickers.

It's hard to fathom.

Post #: 563

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 3:47:35 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I honestly won't be surprised if they keep Cleveland at guard. He did one thing very well last year that the Vikings emphasize in their guard play. He gets to the second and third level of the defense in the run game. If they believe they can shore up his pass blocking at the position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he lines up at guard next year. I also can't believe that they would take someone they envision as their long term LT and burn that crucial first year of development by playing him at guard. Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of what the Vikings do with the O-line makes no sense.

It's not uncommon for a rookie to get pushed to Guard before moving back out to T. I think the interesting thing was the FO giving Reiff an ultimatum right before the season. Maybe their plan was to have Hill be the starting LT, or flip Oneil to LT - but more likely IMO was if Reiff had refused and been cut, Ezra would have been inserted at LT.

A lot will depend on the draft and FA - be interesting how the draft comes together.

Although not exactly equivalent, drafting Cleveland seemed similar to drafting Hughes where there wasn't a clear current needed but the pick had elements of insurance and heir-apparencie (not a word) to it knowing they eventually couldn't pay both Rhodes and Waynes.

Last year was wait around mode for Cleveland. I don't know if the stint at G helped him, hopefully it did, but he did lose focused training for tackle.

Yes lost focused training in-season but last offseason didn't really offer that. He wasn't going to play if they just practiced him on the outside.

Atleast he got in some real game / nfl DL exposure, albeit inside.

With a full offseason of focused T training this year, if they go that route, that live action exposure will help him more than the second team practice reps he would have lost on the outside. Hopefully.

Probably right on the in-game action. No substitute for that, even at another OL spot. Maybe he watched the DEs going against O'Neill to see how fast they were, knowing they are 'slower' than the ones on the opposite side.

So basically we agree they handled Cleveland's first year perfectly

Post #: 564

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 4:38:13 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I honestly won't be surprised if they keep Cleveland at guard. He did one thing very well last year that the Vikings emphasize in their guard play. He gets to the second and third level of the defense in the run game. If they believe they can shore up his pass blocking at the position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he lines up at guard next year. I also can't believe that they would take someone they envision as their long term LT and burn that crucial first year of development by playing him at guard. Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of what the Vikings do with the O-line makes no sense.

It's not uncommon for a rookie to get pushed to Guard before moving back out to T. I think the interesting thing was the FO giving Reiff an ultimatum right before the season. Maybe their plan was to have Hill be the starting LT, or flip Oneil to LT - but more likely IMO was if Reiff had refused and been cut, Ezra would have been inserted at LT.

A lot will depend on the draft and FA - be interesting how the draft comes together.

Although not exactly equivalent, drafting Cleveland seemed similar to drafting Hughes where there wasn't a clear current needed but the pick had elements of insurance and heir-apparencie (not a word) to it knowing they eventually couldn't pay both Rhodes and Waynes.

Last year was wait around mode for Cleveland. I don't know if the stint at G helped him, hopefully it did, but he did lose focused training for tackle.

That's a great analogy.

I don't know footwork, hand technique (where's Dana?) well enough to say what the difference from the outside/T to inside/G would be.

I still think we should have cut Reiff and let Ezra take his lumps at LT. Elf gets hurt, Samia flames out, Udoh steps in at RG and we make the playoffs

.

We'd already have the money to sign Thuney at LG at 15M and resign ONeil. Top 5 line with Ezra/Thuney/Bradford/Udoh/Oneil.

That's for Tom

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 565

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 6:27:26 PM

Bruce Johnson

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It feels like to me that our team has been worse at developing offensive linemen than drafting them. I puked when we drafted Beavers, but I was inspired by the Yankey, Samia, Clemmings and Isadora selections They were all fourth round or later. I don't believe any of us were negative with the Elflein selection nor the Bradbury choice.

This is an article with much of the Viking's history of the choices that have been made in the draft on offensive linemen. Good article.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/a-round-by-round-look-at-the-vikings-history-of-drafting-offensive-linemen/

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 566

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/14/2021 7:02:12 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Levi Onwuzurike is a Sheldon Richardson clone. Best pass rushing interior defensive lineman in this class.

(Purple Post on Twitter)

I believe he will be selected in possibly the late first round, but more likely the earlier second round, especially with the dearth of defensive tackles in this draft.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 567

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/19/2021 2:52:41 PM

Bruce Johnson

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https://www.dailynorseman.com/2021/3/17/22335461/two-guards-the-vikings-could-target-with-mid-round-picks

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 568

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/19/2021 5:00:44 PM

Bruce Johnson

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The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 569

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/19/2021 5:18:54 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
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From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

Spielman's worst nightmare!

Post #: 570

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/19/2021 5:28:28 PM

David F.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

Spielman's worst nightmare!

Maybe it was a passive aggressive move on the executive’s part.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 571

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/20/2021 9:22:24 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

Spielman's worst nightmare!

Maybe it was a passive aggressive move on the executive’s part.

Bottom line is that the Vikings have 7 picks in the first 4 rounds and 11 overall. There is no reason for Spielman to trade down for extra picks.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 572

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:29:10 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

Spielman's worst nightmare!

Maybe it was a passive aggressive move on the executive’s part.

Bottom line is that the Vikings have 7 picks in the first 4 rounds and 11 overall. There is no reason for Spielman to trade down for extra picks.

Just watch. he will

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 573

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/20/2021 10:35:33 AM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

Spielman's worst nightmare!

Maybe it was a passive aggressive move on the executive’s part.

Bottom line is that the Vikings have 7 picks in the first 4 rounds and 11 overall. There is no reason for Spielman to trade down for extra picks.

Just watch. he will

I just don't see how we don't trade up at some point. two 3rds, four 4ths, two 5ths

Post #: 574

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/20/2021 11:00:48 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Vikings have to forfeit their seventh round draft pick because of a salary cap violation related to a practice squad player in 2019. Three executives also fined $10,000 each: https://startribune.com/vikings-lose-seventh-round-draft-pick-for-salary-cap-violation/600036383/

Mark Craig on Twitter

Spielman's worst nightmare!

Maybe it was a passive aggressive move on the executive’s part.

Bottom line is that the Vikings have 7 picks in the first 4 rounds and 11 overall. There is no reason for Spielman to trade down for extra picks.

Just watch. he will

He might trade up in the middle of the draft and also trade down later to retrieve some picks and still wind up with 11 picks. It does seem that 7 the rounders are usually candidates for the practice squad, though.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 575