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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/23/2021 5:26:10 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Only on these boards is a team that takes an UDFA turns him into a top 5 NFL WR labeled as having "backed into" the player.

Also note that Stephon Diggs was a 5th round pick that we turned into a top 5 NFL WR, got 1st round type production from him for 5 years, then in effect, turned that used 5th rounder into a 1st rounder for a brand new 1st round toy in Justin Jefferson.

But hey, nobody backs into players like the Vikings.


They released him once.


And 31 other teams did not pick him up.


31 other teams didn't have him on the roster, in the facility, watching him play football every day. The Vikings didn't know what they had in Thielen and they didn't know what they had in Diggs.


Oh please. Adam Thielen of 2013 attended a rookie tryout and the Vikings like the potential they saw, more as a Special Teams guy with WR potential. Thielen was not NFL ready as a WR. And as you said 31 other teams didn't have him on the roster, in the facility, watching him play football every day. So the Vikings risked nothing in releasing Thielen and signing him to the practice squad. Over 3 seasons they developed him and in 2016 he emerged as a top NFL WR. The bolded of course being your definition of "backing in". Or is your contention that Thielen would have been a pro-bowl WR in 2013, if only the Vikings knew what they had, and started him game one?
Post #: 276
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/23/2021 5:42:04 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		It’s a good thing Charlie Johnson and jarius Wright were injured in week 4 in 2015 or it would have been a breakout season in 2017 instead of 2016 and the “development process” would have then been four years.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 277
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/23/2021 7:24:15 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It’s a good thing Charlie Johnson and jarius Wright were injured in week 4 in 2015 or it would have been a breakout season in 2017 instead of 2016 and the “development process” would have then been four years.


Nope, met Ricky Jensen for TC in Mankato before the 2016 season, it was clear Thielen was head and shoulders above Wright.

Do you stay up all night spinning this stuff?
Post #: 278
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/23/2021 7:27:29 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It’s a good thing Charlie Johnson and jarius Wright were injured in week 4 in 2015 or it would have been a breakout season in 2017 instead of 2016 and the “development process” would have then been four years.


Nope, met Ricky Jensen for TC in Mankato before the 2016 season, it was clear Thielen was head and shoulders above Wright.

Do you stay up all night spinning this stuff?


You probably missed my point and that's fine.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 279
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 5:49:54 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Ifeadi Odenigbo was really double-teamed at neadly the same rate as Myles Garrett and Joey Bosa because our other defensive linemen were that bad.

Matt Fries on Twitter


the difference is that ifeadi doesn't get the sacks like those two...he's a free agent in a couple of weeks, too....


I do like him as a backup. He has some position flexibility and I do believe he could do better in rotation with a better supporting cast around him. I agree that he showed that he's not a starting DE on a good defense.

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 280
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 6:08:13 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Looking at the career stats for Chad Ochocinco Johnson, it looks like of course Jefferson did much better in his rookie season. I still think that it's not a given that Jefferson will surpass him career wise. He will have to stay healthy, for example. He may not always have a star tandem receiver to divert some attention, especially like the beginning of this past season. I do think that opposing defenses are really going to pay attention to him for now on- kind of like the way that defenses used to focus on stopping Adrian Peterson. Of course, the great ones can overcome that and Jefferson will only turn 22 this June.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnCh01.htm

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 281
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 6:18:35 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		This Stafford vs Cousins thing is pretty interesting & I'll admit I'm a little guilty of it. Stafford is better on the eye test. You would think he's better watching them play.

Yet Kirk beats him at pretty much every aspect of being a qb throughout their careers. Pretty easily.

(Deep to Moss on Twitter)

Did you all see that the Lions are letting Stafford go? I do believe he will catch on pretty quickly with another team. Perhaps the Colts or the Patriots. The Panthers are not so happy with Teddy as their starter either, I believe. Oh. Then there are the Niners and Bears. I believe the Texans will find a young quarterback to exchange for Watson.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 282
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 11:35:04 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

What do you think about Ezra Cleveland? I believe he unfortunately has been inserted in the wrong position and that may continue if the Vikings select an OT in the first round as many speculate. When I think about that, I hope that they select a defensive lineman in the first round so that Cleveland can move to tackle where he belongs.

Yes and no. While I agree he would probably be better as a T it leaves us with zero starting G's on the roster. Spielman has proven repeatedly that G's are a very low value priority and having him have to find one is tough but replacing both would qualify as a horror show.


If Cleveland had done well at G those points may have merit. But he didn't. By every account I've seen, he is suited for tackle. What they decide to do with Reiff will be the key. My guess:

- They cut Reiff
- Cleveland to LT
- Draft OL to start but not necessarily at 14. Either a pure G or a T who has played G that they then move inside. Several of the high ranking T's have played G.

Or they can continue to pay Reiff the big $ and deal with a middling G who should be playing T.
Post #: 283
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 11:37:31 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27521
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Currently the biggest problem is our salary cap situation. Spielman has been careless going all in when clearly he needed to stand pat. The Wilf's are mostly to blame with this. But not being able to sign a few quality FA's per year to fill holes is really going to hamper efforts to build a contender. We're clearly in purgatory.


If the salary cap had not been reduced by Covid it would not have been as bad of a problem, but in that respect, I believe the Vikings are better than a lot of other teams. Still, it's bad. I agree.


No, the Vikings are one of the WORST teams as far as current cap space (negative). Wasn't that ever mentioned on twitter?
Post #: 284
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 1:22:25 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Marcus Epps was one of the highest graded safeties in the NFL in 2020.

Crazy.

(Purple Post on Twitter)

These prospects selected later in the draft need to be developed. Some teams can recognize potential better and/ or coach up the prospects better. This is one that apparently got away.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 285
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 1:29:36 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Picture and comments from Chuck Foreman:

https://twitter.com/ChuckForeman/status/1353394424710094850?s=20

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 286
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 5:13:06 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Brady and the Bucs got a call from the refs in crunch time.

Vs the Packers. They usually own the refs.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 287
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 6:04:39 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		I can enjoy the Superbowl now.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 288
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 6:06:23 PM   
Pager


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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Brady and the Bucs got a call from the refs in crunch time.

Vs the Packers. They usually own the refs.



Packs got most of the calls up to that point. Obv false start on Pack LT on a 30 yard gain, delay of game, an arm bar that should have been DPI in addition to several others. But they let the DBs play, the INT to close the half for Bucs could have been a def holding.

Refs had to call it. Jersey stretched out for several steps. Kings lets go then grabs it again.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/24/2021 7:03:35 PM >

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 289
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 6:13:49 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Packers SB Nation write up:

What makes this loss so disappointing for the Packers is over Rodgers’ career, too often they weren’t the best team. There was no shame in losing because Green Bay’s squad wasn’t good enough. They were this season but didn’t play well enough in the biggest game of the year. This was a golden opportunity to put the green and gold back in the mix for the Lombardi trophy. Given how few chances Rodgers may have left, this one could do down as the most disheartening of all the playoff exits.

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 290
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 6:40:51 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Josh Allen taking two terrible sacks (well 1 an intentional grounding). And now just threw a terrible pass that should have been picked.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/24/2021 7:54:59 PM >

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 291
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 7:18:04 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Brady is 3-1 in the playoffs when throwing 3 INTs.

Arod's career playoff rating was like 77 going into this game. Brady's 83 going into this game.

Takes a team to win in the playoffs.

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 292
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 8:42:51 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Diggs going off like a Diva just now.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 293
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2021 8:51:40 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Diggs going off like a Diva just now.

yup he wont last long in any nfl city
Post #: 294
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2021 6:45:23 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17834
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Marcus Epps was one of the highest graded safeties in the NFL in 2020.

Crazy.

(Purple Post on Twitter)

These prospects selected later in the draft need to be developed. Some teams can recognize potential better and/ or coach up the prospects better. This is one that apparently got away.

Most of us thought exposing Epps to the waiver wire in favor of bringing back Sandejo was extremely short sighted.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 295
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2021 6:47:02 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17834
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		The game speed of KC's Hill and Hardman is just off the charts.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 296
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2021 11:27:47 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27521
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Diggs going off like a Diva just now.


When Buffalo scored late throwing to some other WR a few teammates came over to congratulate him. Diggs was about 5 yards away. Think Prima Donna came over to congratulate him as well?
Post #: 297
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2021 11:49:23 AM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Diggs going off like a Diva just now.


What are you calling out exactly? I'm not aware of anything happening.
Post #: 298
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2021 12:06:44 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11406
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline 		My end of season $0.02:

First off, I hope all are well and safe.

I felt relatively disinterested in the NFL this year. Lots of the games felt wonky. I was pretty certain the Vikes were not a contender. I was just kinda checked out of it a bit like I never have been before. The lousy start didn't help.

I also felt strongly that the lack of preseason games and typical camps and offseason stuff would lead to: guys opting out, guys getting injured, and an advantage to teams with solid incumbent systems/coaches/QBs - especially vets. I expected a GB/NO NFCCG, with an outside change one would be SEA.

The stars lined up for GB. They stayed pretty healthy. Vet QB who played his best in a long time. COVID impacts helped them. Weak division. Playoff path was easy - especially once they got the top seed. This NFCCG loss has to really sting for them - maybe like ours did in 2009.

Anyhow, they deserved that loss. Brady brain-farted a few times or that is a blow-out. That was not a "questionable" call at the end. GMAFB. **** the Packers.

I think KC is going to roll TB is the SB.

As for the Vikes, this last year had some challenges: losing Hunter, Linval, Griffen, etc. really made our DL very soft against the run and we got zero pass rush. Then you add in losing Barr and Kendricks for several games. Surprisingly, the young CB played OK. Harris was mediocre. Wilson played above his pay grade, though.

There were bright spots: Jefferson. Holy shit! Smith and Conklin played great. O'Neil was good, as was Cleveland. Bradbury improved. Cousins played pretty well. I would give him a B+ overall.

Pretty clear to me that Reiff, Rudy, Harris all gone. Barr maybe, too.

With a good draft and some decent FS signings, this team will contend next season - and I am not some glass-half-full type.

< Message edited by Lars -- 1/25/2021 12:09:18 PM >

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Post #: 299
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2021 12:08:10 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11406
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline 		Diggs was going off at the end of some play and had to have his mates "hold him back".

Whatever. He wanted off the team. He's gone and not a Viking. Don't care. Bills mafia? Yawn.

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<this space for rent>
Post #: 300
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