quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I remember people being pissed after the 1st few games of Jefferson last year that we traded away Diggs.....impatient.

Lots of changes on the Oline, lots of changes on the Defense....hope to see improvements each week that lead to wins...that is the key.

I resolutely believe that things can improve.

Not that you would notice or care, but I have been saying for weeks if not months that all the changes would take time to coalesce.

My first comment Monday after the CIN game was essentially, this doesn't tell us who we are as a team yet.

Again, my bitching and moaning are directed at the regime's half-assed methodology towards the OL. The results speak for themselves.

DL bad last year? OK ... even with all world Hunter and top 2020 fa signing Pierce returning, lets add Tomlinson, Richardson, Weatherly, Griffen and draft Jones and Robinson.

OL bad last year? OK ... lets draft an OT early to replace our 2nd best OL (who we let walk) and throw a middle round G at Dozier Bradbury Cleveland ... and we'll be good.

Do you not see the disparity?

Its nobody's fault that Darrisaw has a lingering injury ... its probably nobody's fault that the injury was missed in the pre-draft process ...

It is nobody's fault but our own that after missing TC and going in for a second procedure, we did nothing to increase depth or competition at the LT position.

Last year Hunter goes on IR and we grab Ngakoue ... Darrisaw goes down and we put Zack freakin' Bailey on the practice squad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have easily won, the fumble was a bit of a fluke. None of the other teams in the division could have easily won.

I think the other teams would have all beat the Bengals. I think they all get to play them.

Nope. It just wasn't Green Bay's day. The Bears would of got F by the officials as well and the Lions would of found another way to lose as is their fate - until all changes this week for them of course ...

I hope you aren't always as negative around your family as you are on these threads, Ron.

Negative = what the product delivers. The product delivers plenty of negative fuel and two playoff wins (1 a fluke) IMO is garbage this many years in. I honestly think long term the best result is a 0 to 3 win season. Blow it up, blow it all up.

Speilman keeps overpaying linebackers and safeties in an era where you need DB's and pass rushers.

He can't figure out how to build an OLine and that's pretty important when you commit to a QB that isn't exactly Mahomes when it comes to mobility and improvisation.

None of it makes sense to me.

This is what happens when you have 8 years of horrible oline draft picks. It's amazing that whoever is responsible for scouting olinemen for the Vikings still has a job. Spielman became the full time GM in 2012. Of the olinemen his regime has drafted since then, only one player drafted before 2019 is still on the team and that's Brian O'Neill. 2019's draft class produced Bradbury who has shown that he cannot play in this league, Dru Samia got cut, and Udoh should be a backup swing tackle, yet is now a starting Guard. 2020's Ezra Cleveland was drafted to be a Tackle once he put on some weight and gained some strength. He's now a starting Guard as well. Blake Brandel and Kyle Hinton could only make it to the PS. 2021 brought us Darrisaw and Davis. Like everyone else, my fingers are crossed that they buck the trend and become viable starters. If the Vikings were smart they'd throw in the towel with regards to drafting olinemen, and instead always stock the line with free agents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff was considered a fairly solid left tackle and spielman let him go...cleveland played left tackle for four years in college and was graded in the mid-70s by pff each year - we made him a right/left guard - does he have the anchor to play guard?...everyone thought he lucked out and drafted one of the better left tackle prospects this year, but his prospect had recent surgery, was injured when drafted, and still hasn't recovered....

this offseason there were more solid guards available through free agency than i can ever remember and we didn't pick one up...instead we moved a right tackle to guard and gave another right tackle a top-tier left tackle contract a year earlier than he had to....

obviously, a proven NFL veteran is much closer to a sure thing than a draft prospect, but spielman was expecting to plug and play draft picks this year and it didn't work out for him...he should have signed a left tackle four weeks ago when darrisaw had his second surgery, but he gave the job to a journeyman and signed o'neill instead....

KC had a bad oline last season and their GM went out and fixed it. Our GM just continues to rely on a wing and a prayer.

They had more cap room too...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have easily won, the fumble was a bit of a fluke. None of the other teams in the division could have easily won.

I think the other teams would have all beat the Bengals. I think they all get to play them.

Nope. It just wasn't Green Bay's day. The Bears would of got F by the officials as well and the Lions would of found another way to lose as is their fate - until all changes this week for them of course ...

I hope you aren't always as negative around your family as you are on these threads, Ron.

Negative = what the product delivers. The product delivers plenty of negative fuel and two playoff wins (1 a fluke) IMO is garbage this many years in. I honestly think long term the best result is a 0 to 3 win season. Blow it up, blow it all up.

Speilman keeps overpaying linebackers and safeties in an era where you need DB's and pass rushers.

He can't figure out how to build an OLine and that's pretty important when you commit to a QB that isn't exactly Mahomes when it comes to mobility and improvisation.

None of it makes sense to me.

This is what happens when you have 8 years of horrible oline draft picks. It's amazing that whoever is responsible for scouting olinemen for the Vikings still has a job. Spielman became the full time GM in 2012. Of the olinemen his regime has drafted since then, only one player drafted before 2019 is still on the team and that's Brian O'Neill. 2019's draft class produced Bradbury who has shown that he cannot play in this league, Dru Samia got cut, and Udoh should be a backup swing tackle, yet is now a starting Guard. 2020's Ezra Cleveland was drafted to be a Tackle once he put on some weight and gained some strength. He's now a starting Guard as well. Blake Brandel and Kyle Hinton could only make it to the PS. 2021 brought us Darrisaw and Davis. Like everyone else, my fingers are crossed that they buck the trend and become viable starters. If the Vikings were smart they'd throw in the towel with regards to drafting olinemen, and instead always stock the line with free agents.

It isn't just bad drafts but some bad luck...Kalil, Sullivan, Loadholt, Harris, and some FA Boone, Kline, etc. had injuries that they couldn't come back from. They did bring in FA like Remmers and Boone that just didn't work with their system.

They have tried to bring in some Vets in the past and actually spent decent money on them w/o much luck.

I think Davis and Darrisaw will improve the line as soon as they get them in and they are healthy and ready.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff was considered a fairly solid left tackle and spielman let him go...cleveland played left tackle for four years in college and was graded in the mid-70s by pff each year - we made him a right/left guard - does he have the anchor to play guard?...everyone thought he lucked out and drafted one of the better left tackle prospects this year, but his prospect had recent surgery, was injured when drafted, and still hasn't recovered....

this offseason there were more solid guards available through free agency than i can ever remember and we didn't pick one up...instead we moved a right tackle to guard and gave another right tackle a top-tier left tackle contract a year earlier than he had to....

obviously, a proven NFL veteran is much closer to a sure thing than a draft prospect, but spielman was expecting to plug and play draft picks this year and it didn't work out for him...he should have signed a left tackle four weeks ago when darrisaw had his second surgery, but he gave the job to a journeyman and signed o'neill instead....

KC had a bad oline last season and their GM went out and fixed it. Our GM just continues to rely on a wing and a prayer.

They had more cap room too...

Which is also Speilman’s fault. This is his baby, all of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have easily won, the fumble was a bit of a fluke. None of the other teams in the division could have easily won.

I think the other teams would have all beat the Bengals. I think they all get to play them.

Nope. It just wasn't Green Bay's day. The Bears would of got F by the officials as well and the Lions would of found another way to lose as is their fate - until all changes this week for them of course ...

I hope you aren't always as negative around your family as you are on these threads, Ron.

Negative = what the product delivers. The product delivers plenty of negative fuel and two playoff wins (1 a fluke) IMO is garbage this many years in. I honestly think long term the best result is a 0 to 3 win season. Blow it up, blow it all up.

Speilman keeps overpaying linebackers and safeties in an era where you need DB's and pass rushers.

He can't figure out how to build an OLine and that's pretty important when you commit to a QB that isn't exactly Mahomes when it comes to mobility and improvisation.

None of it makes sense to me.

This is what happens when you have 8 years of horrible oline draft picks. It's amazing that whoever is responsible for scouting olinemen for the Vikings still has a job. Spielman became the full time GM in 2012. Of the olinemen his regime has drafted since then, only one player drafted before 2019 is still on the team and that's Brian O'Neill. 2019's draft class produced Bradbury who has shown that he cannot play in this league, Dru Samia got cut, and Udoh should be a backup swing tackle, yet is now a starting Guard. 2020's Ezra Cleveland was drafted to be a Tackle once he put on some weight and gained some strength. He's now a starting Guard as well. Blake Brandel and Kyle Hinton could only make it to the PS. 2021 brought us Darrisaw and Davis. Like everyone else, my fingers are crossed that they buck the trend and become viable starters. If the Vikings were smart they'd throw in the towel with regards to drafting olinemen, and instead always stock the line with free agents.

It isn't just bad drafts but some bad luck...Kalil, Sullivan, Loadholt, Harris, and some FA Boone, Kline, etc. had injuries that they couldn't come back from. They did bring in FA like Remmers and Boone that just didn't work with their system.

They have tried to bring in some Vets in the past and actually spent decent money on them w/o much luck.

I think Davis and Darrisaw will improve the line as soon as they get them in and they are healthy and ready.

Maybe it isn't who they selected but instead it has more to do with how they've been developed by this team.

Bradbury was the highest rated center in that draft. Elflein was similarly highly regarded.

Free Agency is where you are going to get the more fully deveoloped guys (I read somewhere that it takes a few years for most of these guys in these positions to fully get up to speed in the game). That is where I think this team has failed the most. They get cheap about Oline talent. and poorly develop the talent they've drafted. There are a few exceptions over the years for that like O'Neill, but most of our drafted talent fails.

We are overpaying for an overrated QB and underpaying and poorly developing a line to protect him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff was considered a fairly solid left tackle and spielman let him go...cleveland played left tackle for four years in college and was graded in the mid-70s by pff each year - we made him a right/left guard - does he have the anchor to play guard?...everyone thought he lucked out and drafted one of the better left tackle prospects this year, but his prospect had recent surgery, was injured when drafted, and still hasn't recovered....

this offseason there were more solid guards available through free agency than i can ever remember and we didn't pick one up...instead we moved a right tackle to guard and gave another right tackle a top-tier left tackle contract a year earlier than he had to....

obviously, a proven NFL veteran is much closer to a sure thing than a draft prospect, but spielman was expecting to plug and play draft picks this year and it didn't work out for him...he should have signed a left tackle four weeks ago when darrisaw had his second surgery, but he gave the job to a journeyman and signed o'neill instead....

KC had a bad oline last season and their GM went out and fixed it. Our GM just continues to rely on a wing and a prayer.

They had more cap room too...

Which is also Speilman’s fault. This is his baby, all of it.

So were you in the keep Diggs over JJ crew after 2 games in 2020? Impatient.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have easily won, the fumble was a bit of a fluke. None of the other teams in the division could have easily won.

I think the other teams would have all beat the Bengals. I think they all get to play them.

Nope. It just wasn't Green Bay's day. The Bears would of got F by the officials as well and the Lions would of found another way to lose as is their fate - until all changes this week for them of course ...

I hope you aren't always as negative around your family as you are on these threads, Ron.

If by "it just wasn't Green Bay's day" you mean they got completely beat down on both sides of the ball, then yes, it just wasn't Green Bay's day. 🤪

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff was considered a fairly solid left tackle and spielman let him go...cleveland played left tackle for four years in college and was graded in the mid-70s by pff each year - we made him a right/left guard - does he have the anchor to play guard?...everyone thought he lucked out and drafted one of the better left tackle prospects this year, but his prospect had recent surgery, was injured when drafted, and still hasn't recovered....

this offseason there were more solid guards available through free agency than i can ever remember and we didn't pick one up...instead we moved a right tackle to guard and gave another right tackle a top-tier left tackle contract a year earlier than he had to....

obviously, a proven NFL veteran is much closer to a sure thing than a draft prospect, but spielman was expecting to plug and play draft picks this year and it didn't work out for him...he should have signed a left tackle four weeks ago when darrisaw had his second surgery, but he gave the job to a journeyman and signed o'neill instead....

KC had a bad oline last season and their GM went out and fixed it. Our GM just continues to rely on a wing and a prayer.

They had more cap room too...

Which is also Speilman’s fault. This is his baby, all of it.

So were you in the keep Diggs over JJ crew after 2 games in 2020? Impatient.

it has been almost a decade, 2 games?

The issues behind Diggs's unhappiness still exist in Minnesota.

Would the Vikings be better off today if they chose to keep Diggs and ditch Speilman Zimmer Cousins and the current philisophy?
That is the discussion to have, not if a cheaper good WR is better than an expensive good WR.

Has getting rid of Diggs resulted in more wins? No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

RandBall @RandBall
·1h
New post: Interesting QB grades from Pro Football Focus this week: Aaron Rodgers was the worst, Teddy Bridgewater was the best, and Kirk Cousins was not far behind Teddy.

Obviously I only post Pro Football Focus material when they point out the good in a Viking player - but as Rand says it is interesting

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have easily won, the fumble was a bit of a fluke. None of the other teams in the division could have easily won.

I think the other teams would have all beat the Bengals. I think they all get to play them.

Nope. It just wasn't Green Bay's day. The Bears would of got F by the officials as well and the Lions would of found another way to lose as is their fate - until all changes this week for them of course ...

I hope you aren't always as negative around your family as you are on these threads, Ron.

If by "it just wasn't Green Bay's day" you mean they got completely beat down on both sides of the ball, then yes, it just wasn't Green Bay's day. 🤪

yeah, that's kind of what I meant ... offense and defense sucked - how'd their special teams do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I remember people being pissed after the 1st few games of Jefferson last year that we traded away Diggs.....impatient.

Lots of changes on the Oline, lots of changes on the Defense....hope to see improvements each week that lead to wins...that is the key.

I resolutely believe that things can improve.

Not that you would notice or care, but I have been saying for weeks if not months that all the changes would take time to coalesce.

My first comment Monday after the CIN game was essentially, this doesn't tell us who we are as a team yet.

Again, my bitching and moaning are directed at the regime's half-assed methodology towards the OL. The results speak for themselves.

DL bad last year? OK ... even with all world Hunter and top 2020 fa signing Pierce returning, lets add Tomlinson, Richardson, Weatherly, Griffen and draft Jones and Robinson.

OL bad last year? OK ... lets draft an OT early to replace our 2nd best OL (who we let walk) and throw a middle round G at Dozier Bradbury Cleveland ... and we'll be good.

Do you not see the disparity?

Its nobody's fault that Darrisaw has a lingering injury ... its probably nobody's fault that the injury was missed in the pre-draft process ...

It is nobody's fault but our own that after missing TC and going in for a second procedure, we did nothing to increase depth or competition at the LT position.

Last year Hunter goes on IR and we grab Ngakoue ... Darrisaw goes down and we put Zack freakin' Bailey on the practice squad.

It isn't always just directed at you.

Darrisaw won't be gone long enough to put on the IR so who do you want to cut right now and replace? Most of the line is pretty young so they chose to go that route instead of grabbing older guys (Kyle Long) that are injury risks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I remember people being pissed after the 1st few games of Jefferson last year that we traded away Diggs.....impatient.

Lots of changes on the Oline, lots of changes on the Defense....hope to see improvements each week that lead to wins...that is the key.

I resolutely believe that things can improve.

Not that you would notice or care, but I have been saying for weeks if not months that all the changes would take time to coalesce.

My first comment Monday after the CIN game was essentially, this doesn't tell us who we are as a team yet.

Again, my bitching and moaning are directed at the regime's half-assed methodology towards the OL. The results speak for themselves.

DL bad last year? OK ... even with all world Hunter and top 2020 fa signing Pierce returning, lets add Tomlinson, Richardson, Weatherly, Griffen and draft Jones and Robinson.

OL bad last year? OK ... lets draft an OT early to replace our 2nd best OL (who we let walk) and throw a middle round G at Dozier Bradbury Cleveland ... and we'll be good.

Do you not see the disparity?

Its nobody's fault that Darrisaw has a lingering injury ... its probably nobody's fault that the injury was missed in the pre-draft process ...

It is nobody's fault but our own that after missing TC and going in for a second procedure, we did nothing to increase depth or competition at the LT position.

Last year Hunter goes on IR and we grab Ngakoue ... Darrisaw goes down and we put Zack freakin' Bailey on the practice squad.

It isn't always just directed at you.

Darrisaw won't be gone long enough to put on the IR so who do you want to cut right now and replace? Most of the line is pretty young so they chose to go that route instead of grabbing older guys (Kyle Long) that are injury risks.

No ofcourse not, but since you had a follow on post directly related to the exchange we were having ... I responded from my point of view.

I forget how short your attention span is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
reiff was considered a fairly solid left tackle and spielman let him go...cleveland played left tackle for four years in college and was graded in the mid-70s by pff each year - we made him a right/left guard - does he have the anchor to play guard?...everyone thought he lucked out and drafted one of the better left tackle prospects this year, but his prospect had recent surgery, was injured when drafted, and still hasn't recovered....

this offseason there were more solid guards available through free agency than i can ever remember and we didn't pick one up...instead we moved a right tackle to guard and gave another right tackle a top-tier left tackle contract a year earlier than he had to....

obviously, a proven NFL veteran is much closer to a sure thing than a draft prospect, but spielman was expecting to plug and play draft picks this year and it didn't work out for him...he should have signed a left tackle four weeks ago when darrisaw had his second surgery, but he gave the job to a journeyman and signed o'neill instead....

KC had a bad oline last season and their GM went out and fixed it. Our GM just continues to rely on a wing and a prayer.

They had more cap room too...

Which is also Speilman’s fault. This is his baby, all of it.

So were you in the keep Diggs over JJ crew after 2 games in 2020? Impatient.

it has been almost a decade, 2 games?

The issues behind Diggs's unhappiness still exist in Minnesota.

Would the Vikings be better off today if they chose to keep Diggs and ditch Speilman Zimmer Cousins and the current philisophy?
That is the discussion to have, not if a cheaper good WR is better than an expensive good WR.

Has getting rid of Diggs resulted in more wins? No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I remember people being pissed after the 1st few games of Jefferson last year that we traded away Diggs.....impatient.

Lots of changes on the Oline, lots of changes on the Defense....hope to see improvements each week that lead to wins...that is the key.

I resolutely believe that things can improve.

Not that you would notice or care, but I have been saying for weeks if not months that all the changes would take time to coalesce.

My first comment Monday after the CIN game was essentially, this doesn't tell us who we are as a team yet.

Again, my bitching and moaning are directed at the regime's half-assed methodology towards the OL. The results speak for themselves.

DL bad last year? OK ... even with all world Hunter and top 2020 fa signing Pierce returning, lets add Tomlinson, Richardson, Weatherly, Griffen and draft Jones and Robinson.

OL bad last year? OK ... lets draft an OT early to replace our 2nd best OL (who we let walk) and throw a middle round G at Dozier Bradbury Cleveland ... and we'll be good.

Do you not see the disparity?

Its nobody's fault that Darrisaw has a lingering injury ... its probably nobody's fault that the injury was missed in the pre-draft process ...

It is nobody's fault but our own that after missing TC and going in for a second procedure, we did nothing to increase depth or competition at the LT position.

Last year Hunter goes on IR and we grab Ngakoue ... Darrisaw goes down and we put Zack freakin' Bailey on the practice squad.

It isn't always just directed at you.

Darrisaw won't be gone long enough to put on the IR so who do you want to cut right now and replace? Most of the line is pretty young so they chose to go that route instead of grabbing older guys (Kyle Long) that are injury risks.

No ofcourse not, but since you had a follow on post directly related to the exchange we were having ... I responded from my point of view.

I forget how short your attention span is.

Usually when you aren't quoted there is a reason.....it isn't directed at you. Maybe it is the opposite and you want attention?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ambear

And Vigil limited with ankle....

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Heineke starting for Wash.
Reminds me a bit of Case... limited in some ways but makes plays and guys make plays for him... fun to watch.