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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 3:44:56 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I know we are 0-2 at this point but if we would have been 1-1 and beat Arizona in their house I would have considered it as firing on all cylinders....5-6 mistakes cost us the game with a missed kick the last.

The Cincy game was horribly played and we still almost pulled it off....if we didn't have bad luck in how both those games finished we wouldn't of had any at all. A missed 37 yard FG and a Fumble they couldn't overturn due to camera angle....are they fireable offenses on the road?

The Arizona game was entertaining as we played very well....the Cincy game was fireable if want to rate the product presented on the field.


Again, do you do this same pointless exercise after wins as well?


Only when posters act like we were blown out. And go post somewhere else if you don't like it.

We have someone posting about trading KC, others firing Speilman...how did we play last game against a pretty good team....

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/20/2021 3:47:29 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 3:49:14 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I know we are 0-2 at this point but if we would have been 1-1 and beat Arizona in their house I would have considered it as firing on all cylinders....5-6 mistakes cost us the game with a missed kick the last.

The Cincy game was horribly played and we still almost pulled it off....if we didn't have bad luck in how both those games finished we wouldn't of had any at all. A missed 37 yard FG and a Fumble they couldn't overturn due to camera angle....are they fireable offenses on the road?

The Arizona game was entertaining as we played very well....the Cincy game was fireable if want to rate the product presented on the field.


Again, do you do this same pointless exercise after wins as well?

Was it Parcells who said you are what your record says you are?


Its the rallying cry of losers "if only this didn't happen, then..."

We see it all the time. "If these plays didn't happen, we win"..."If you take out these 3 plays, the defense was great"..."If you take out the 97 yard run, we held him in check"...

But how often do you see "If 2 plays went the other way, Zimmer would be 0-4 for his career in the Playoffs." from the same posters?

The point is that it's an exercise in futility, since most games could swing on a handful of plays.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 9/20/2021 4:08:46 PM >
Post #: 5227
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:05:30 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 8813
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

There is no point in firing a coach during the season unless you are trying to please the fan base.



the point is to halt the collective sense of extreme & agonizing frustration we all endure for 3+ hours every bloody week....

it's like watching a seven-year-old fail an iq test...and there's no pass or fail in an iq test....

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Post #: 5228
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:10:35 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74496
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

There is no point in firing a coach during the season unless you are trying to please the fan base.



the point is to halt the collective sense of extreme & agonizing frustration we all endure for 3+ hours every bloody week....

it's like watching a seven-year-old fail an iq test...and there's no pass or fail in an iq test....


Would having Andre Patterson take over partway through the season change that?
Post #: 5229
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:12:42 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I know we are 0-2 at this point but if we would have been 1-1 and beat Arizona in their house I would have considered it as firing on all cylinders....5-6 mistakes cost us the game with a missed kick the last.

The Cincy game was horribly played and we still almost pulled it off....if we didn't have bad luck in how both those games finished we wouldn't of had any at all. A missed 37 yard FG and a Fumble they couldn't overturn due to camera angle....are they fireable offenses on the road?

The Arizona game was entertaining as we played very well....the Cincy game was fireable if want to rate the product presented on the field.


Again, do you do this same pointless exercise after wins as well?

Was it Parcells who said you are what your record says you are?


Its the rallying cry of losers "if only this didn't happen, then..."

We see it all the time. "If these plays didn't happen, we win"..."If you take out these 3 plays, the defense was great"..."If you take out the 97 yard run, we held him in check"...

But how often do you see "If 2 plays went the other way, Zimmer would be 0-4 for his career in the Playoffs." from the same posters?

The point is that it's an exercise in futility, since most games could swing on a handful of plays.

Very true. Many games every week could be changed because of 1 play being different. The point is Zimmer can't win the close ones and has an atrocious record against solid competition. After the season he needs to go.

< Message edited by Richard Neussendorfer -- 9/20/2021 4:15:55 PM >
Post #: 5230
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:21:44 PM   
joejitsu

 

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Hopefully, KJO has solved the question of who will step up and be third receiver. Now, we just have to use the three of them in a style that befits a 2021 NFL team.
Post #: 5231
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:21:56 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 18281
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

There is no point in firing a coach during the season unless you are trying to please the fan base.



the point is to halt the collective sense of extreme & agonizing frustration we all endure for 3+ hours every bloody week....

it's like watching a seven-year-old fail an iq test...and there's no pass or fail in an iq test....


Would having Andre Patterson take over partway through the season change that?



He is about the only guy who always makes his room better.
Post #: 5232
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:22:55 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74496
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

There is no point in firing a coach during the season unless you are trying to please the fan base.



the point is to halt the collective sense of extreme & agonizing frustration we all endure for 3+ hours every bloody week....

it's like watching a seven-year-old fail an iq test...and there's no pass or fail in an iq test....


Would having Andre Patterson take over partway through the season change that?



He is about the only guy who always makes his room better.


So most likely the end result would be our DLine suffering as he couldn't focus on it anymore.
Post #: 5233
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:30:01 PM  2 votes
thebigo


Posts: 28093
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I know we are 0-2 at this point but if we would have been 1-1 and beat Arizona in their house I would have considered it as firing on all cylinders....5-6 mistakes cost us the game with a missed kick the last.

The Cincy game was horribly played and we still almost pulled it off....if we didn't have bad luck in how both those games finished we wouldn't of had any at all. A missed 37 yard FG and a Fumble they couldn't overturn due to camera angle....are they fireable offenses on the road?

The Arizona game was entertaining as we played very well....the Cincy game was fireable if want to rate the product presented on the field.


Again, do you do this same pointless exercise after wins as well?

Was it Parcells who said you are what your record says you are?


Its the rallying cry of losers "if only this didn't happen, then..."

We see it all the time. "If these plays didn't happen, we win"..."If you take out these 3 plays, the defense was great"..."If you take out the 97 yard run, we held him in check"...

But how often do you see "If 2 plays went the other way, Zimmer would be 0-4 for his career in the Playoffs." from the same posters?

The point is that it's an exercise in futility, since most games could swing on a handful of plays.


Well let's face it, everything posted on these threads is an exercise in futility.
Post #: 5234
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 4:43:02 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 11325
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

What are the indications that Zimmer is on the edge of losing his locker room?

Locker Room





Positive fans
]


Negative fans


Season ticket holders


< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 9/20/2021 4:47:26 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 6:24:12 PM   
David F.


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Charchian writes:

Out of 99 cornerbacks ranked, the Vikings' three starting cornerbacks have PFF rankings of 70th, 91st, and 99th.

Where have I seen this before?

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 6:37:04 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


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Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
Deja Vu all over again..

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 7:03:09 PM   
bohumm

 

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From: Altadena, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Charchian writes:

Out of 99 cornerbacks ranked, the Vikings' three starting cornerbacks have PFF rankings of 70th, 91st, and 99th.

Where have I seen this before?

Think of the resources devoted to CBs by this regime....
Post #: 5238
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 7:23:13 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 17814
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From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Charchian writes:

Out of 99 cornerbacks ranked, the Vikings' three starting cornerbacks have PFF rankings of 70th, 91st, and 99th.

Where have I seen this before?

Think of the resources devoted to CBs by this regime....

Cornerback whisperer huh? Those days seem so long ago.
Post #: 5239
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 8:55:14 PM   
marty


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Not that it makes any difference, but had the Vikes played the last 2 games at home, I think they would be 2-0.

I thought Cincy might be trouble, and believed for a couple of days before the game that Cincy would win, and then watched some Vikings hype and thought right before the game the Vikes would win.

I thought it was highly likely the Vikes would lose at Arizona.

< Message edited by marty -- 9/20/2021 8:59:13 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 8:58:22 PM   
marty


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I really wouldn't mind if Cousins got hurt, it would be interesting to see what Mond would do with the offense for a dozen games.

But when the game starts and KC is behind center, I hope he does well, and hope for the best.

This team will probably be entertaining this year, hopefully the CBs start playing a lot better.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5241
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 9:04:05 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17336
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 20 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 9:10:44 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17336
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 20 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

Zimmer ball

Didn't AZ score from their own 35 in the first half with about 40 seconds left?

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5243
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 9:25:09 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17336
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: GopherFan34

One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares.


We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG.

Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss.

Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0.

Did you see anything in the secondary other than an Int on a bad ball that made you think that years of resources spent on the secondary have amounted to....anything? Seriously, the whole philosophy of this regime is have an elite D and superior running game with a game manager QB, and they can't field a decent secondary or a decent OL to protect the ultimate game manager QB. As encouraging as the OL play was yesterday, it was just hope they would be adequate, and you can make a case that they weren't too good in the second half.

And do you actually purport to defend Zimmer's clock management and ultra-conservative philosophy? What about the squib kick that gave them enough extra yardage to get into FG range? All just fine?

It's all part of a pattern that repeats itself year after year.

Defense needs to step it up.

Barr coming back and playing at a high level.
Griffen coming up big in situational role. Hunter can't be only DE producing.
Dantzler needs to regain confidence he had last year.
Safeties need to cut down on mental errors
Richardson and Tomlinson need to show something. Where are they?

Can these things happen? Hope so.

I don't think either has even registered a simple assist let alone credited with a tackle.

These two are a huge disappointment at this stage

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 9:48:13 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28093
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Deja Vu all over again..

We've seen it three times?
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2021 9:52:40 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74496
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I really wouldn't mind if Cousins got hurt, it would be interesting to see what Mond would do with the offense for a dozen games.

But when the game starts and KC is behind center, I hope he does well, and hope for the best.

This team will probably be entertaining this year, hopefully the CBs start playing a lot better.


Mannion is the #2 QB…
Post #: 5246
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2021 7:44:36 AM   
stfrank

 

Posts: 10631
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero.

A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that.

The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills.

If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick.


I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.


I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs.

We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 20 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal.

Zimmer ball

Didn't AZ score from their own 35 in the first half with about 40 seconds left?

The definition of Zimmer ball:
--keep the game close at all times no matter the quality of the opponent
--make sure the game always comes down to the last possession
--never go for a TD late when a field goal will do!
Post #: 5247
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2021 9:28:29 AM   
Ush


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Haven’t posted in a while as life just seems to keep getting in the way. I enjoy catching up each week and reading the varying opinions so I’ll throw in mine:

1. I really dislike Cousins and think a lot of the team feels the same way. That being said, I really don’t place any blame on him for the 0-2 start. He is what he is....a very accurate passer with a strong arm who typically needs time to throw. You can tell he has worked to try and be more mobile and even had a couple of big runs the first two games. He is just limited physically. This offense hasn’t been the problem since the middle of last season IMO. They have been productive despite a bad oline and have put us in a position to win the first 2 games this year.

2. I wanted Zimmer to try and get more yards before the potential game winning kick. It might be just my “Vikings mentality” but I fully expected him to miss that kick.

3, I am very interested in how they play this week. Usually this kind of a play (missed kick) kills a team but I like what I’m hearing from Joseph and Theilen and how they are reacting to this. They seem to be rallying together. I think the team feels like they should be in a better position and are going to go and try to prove something this week. I could be totally wrong but just a gut feeling I get. If they get blown out I’ll say Zim has lost the team. I just don’t see it happening.

4. I feel like, for the first time in a long time, we have a punter who can boom one from our own endzone when we need it.

5. Welcome back Danielle. Pay the man!

6. Very disappointed in the run defense so far. I thought we’d be tougher up the gut with Pierce and Tomlinson but I see them getting pushed back a lot. Maybe it’s a matter of rarely playing with 3 LB’s but we seem to give up at least 5 yds every play on the ground.

7. Dantzler needs to just play. Breeland has shown nothing in the preseason and regular season so far. We had some bad luck with Gladney and injuries with Mike Hughes that have really set back our secondary. I don’t know that we have enough on the roster to fix this so our so-called DB guru needs to somehow work some magic with this group. The pass rush can offset some of that and I think we’ll see more pressure with the home field advantage but I fully expect our pass defense to struggle on the road especially.

8. Pleasant surprises so far: KJ Osborn, Dantzler when he played this week, passing offense continuing it’s success without Irv, creativity on offense and punting.

9. Disappointments so far: Tomlinson, Harrison (especially based on contract extension), defense overall, health issues with Barr after missing most of last season, Darrisaw injury as well and losing 2 games we easily should have won.
Post #: 5248
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2021 9:48:22 AM   
David F.


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We drafted 11 players in April and not one of them played an offensive or defensive snap last Sunday.

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Post #: 5249
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2021 10:00:42 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ush

Haven’t posted in a while as life just seems to keep getting in the way. I enjoy catching up each week and reading the varying opinions so I’ll throw in mine:

1. I really dislike Cousins and think a lot of the team feels the same way. That being said, I really don’t place any blame on him for the 0-2 start. He is what he is....a very accurate passer with a strong arm who typically needs time to throw. You can tell he has worked to try and be more mobile and even had a couple of big runs the first two games. He is just limited physically. This offense hasn’t been the problem since the middle of last season IMO. They have been productive despite a bad oline and have put us in a position to win the first 2 games this year.

2. I wanted Zimmer to try and get more yards before the potential game winning kick. It might be just my “Vikings mentality” but I fully expected him to miss that kick.

3, I am very interested in how they play this week. Usually this kind of a play (missed kick) kills a team but I like what I’m hearing from Joseph and Theilen and how they are reacting to this. They seem to be rallying together. I think the team feels like they should be in a better position and are going to go and try to prove something this week. I could be totally wrong but just a gut feeling I get. If they get blown out I’ll say Zim has lost the team. I just don’t see it happening.

4. I feel like, for the first time in a long time, we have a punter who can boom one from our own endzone when we need it.

5. Welcome back Danielle. Pay the man!

6. Very disappointed in the run defense so far. I thought we’d be tougher up the gut with Pierce and Tomlinson but I see them getting pushed back a lot. Maybe it’s a matter of rarely playing with 3 LB’s but we seem to give up at least 5 yds every play on the ground.

7. Dantzler needs to just play. Breeland has shown nothing in the preseason and regular season so far. We had some bad luck with Gladney and injuries with Mike Hughes that have really set back our secondary. I don’t know that we have enough on the roster to fix this so our so-called DB guru needs to somehow work some magic with this group. The pass rush can offset some of that and I think we’ll see more pressure with the home field advantage but I fully expect our pass defense to struggle on the road especially.

8. Pleasant surprises so far: KJ Osborn, Dantzler when he played this week, passing offense continuing it’s success without Irv, creativity on offense and punting.

9. Disappointments so far: Tomlinson, Harrison (especially based on contract extension), defense overall, health issues with Barr after missing most of last season, Darrisaw injury as well and losing 2 games we easily should have won.

Good summary … I agree with most …

I have no idea if Cousins is liked by his teammates or not, don’t really care. IMO the likability / leadership discussions are way overblown … some QBs carry the ‘it’ factor, some dont. With no say in the matter, KC is the QB and at least he can be very productive.

I just read a blog that we are tied for 2nd to last in field goal % since 2014 - to tie or win in the last 2 minutes of games. About 50%! I thought we were a little iffy but that is just plain awful. How the hell can you justify not taking one shot at the endzone before kicking it?

I think we win 2 of our next 3 games and keep the season is in front us. 1-4 vs 2-3 just seems like a huge difference to me. If we go 1-4 … I will have to break bread with the people I have been blasting for giving up too soon … 1-4 and I think the rest of the season will be a mad scramble for 7 wins.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 9/21/2021 10:11:24 AM >
Post #: 5250
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