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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/13/2021 7:02:26 PM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Per PFF for the 2020 regular season,

Average time to throw, Cousins ranks 8th, at 2.67 seconds. Josh Allen is #1 at 2.85 seconds. Tom Brady is #26 at 2.39 seconds.

Average time in pocket, Cousins ranks 14th, at 2.76 seconds. Lamar Jackson is #1 at 3.17 seconds. Drew Brees and Tom Brady are #25 and #27 at 2.49 and 2.42 seconds.

Percentage of dropbacks with 2.5 seconds or more to throw, Cousins ranks 7th at 56.2%. Josh Allen is #1 at 61.8%. The bottom 8 of this category are Stafford, Tannehill, Brees, Brady, Burrow, Rivers, Dalton, and Rapeyburger.

But Kirk's the issue right? Yep. Yep he is.

You think Kirk is more of an issue than the o-line? He is what he is, but if he's your QB, and he is and likely will be, you have to have at least an average o-line.

Really good point. On the other hand, when I think of Brady getting rid of the ball on time so quickly, I wonder if he makes his offensive line good by that and Kirk, who holds onto the ball longer, makes his offensive line bad.

Cousins does indeed have some really good qualities. He's accurate short and long and has good velocity. He makes the defense have to cover the whole field. We could win with that. It sure would be interesting if we didn't have the worst interior offensive line in the history of the NFL and it's not even close.

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 851

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/13/2021 9:00:00 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45017
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Per PFF for the 2020 regular season,

Average time to throw, Cousins ranks 8th, at 2.67 seconds. Josh Allen is #1 at 2.85 seconds. Tom Brady is #26 at 2.39 seconds.

Average time in pocket, Cousins ranks 14th, at 2.76 seconds. Lamar Jackson is #1 at 3.17 seconds. Drew Brees and Tom Brady are #25 and #27 at 2.49 and 2.42 seconds.

Percentage of dropbacks with 2.5 seconds or more to throw, Cousins ranks 7th at 56.2%. Josh Allen is #1 at 61.8%. The bottom 8 of this category are Stafford, Tannehill, Brees, Brady, Burrow, Rivers, Dalton, and Rapeyburger.

But Kirk's the issue right? Yep. Yep he is.

You think Kirk is more of an issue than the o-line? He is what he is, but if he's your QB, and he is and likely will be, you have to have at least an average o-line.

Really good point. On the other hand, when I think of Brady getting rid of the ball on time so quickly, I wonder if he makes his offensive line good by that and Kirk, who holds onto the ball longer, makes his offensive line bad.

Cousins does indeed have some really good qualities. He's accurate short and long and has good velocity. He makes the defense have to cover the whole field. We could win with that. It sure would be interesting if we didn't have the worst interior offensive line in the history of the NFL and it's not even close.

Why is the comparison always to the once in a lifetime quarterback?

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Post #: 852

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2021 11:32:11 AM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Per PFF for the 2020 regular season,

Average time to throw, Cousins ranks 8th, at 2.67 seconds. Josh Allen is #1 at 2.85 seconds. Tom Brady is #26 at 2.39 seconds.

Average time in pocket, Cousins ranks 14th, at 2.76 seconds. Lamar Jackson is #1 at 3.17 seconds. Drew Brees and Tom Brady are #25 and #27 at 2.49 and 2.42 seconds.

Percentage of dropbacks with 2.5 seconds or more to throw, Cousins ranks 7th at 56.2%. Josh Allen is #1 at 61.8%. The bottom 8 of this category are Stafford, Tannehill, Brees, Brady, Burrow, Rivers, Dalton, and Rapeyburger.

But Kirk's the issue right? Yep. Yep he is.

What is the % rollouts/play action per QB? It would be a much more meaningful comparison if those are separated out.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 853

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2021 1:21:46 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Per PFF for the 2020 regular season,

Average time to throw, Cousins ranks 8th, at 2.67 seconds. Josh Allen is #1 at 2.85 seconds. Tom Brady is #26 at 2.39 seconds.

Average time in pocket, Cousins ranks 14th, at 2.76 seconds. Lamar Jackson is #1 at 3.17 seconds. Drew Brees and Tom Brady are #25 and #27 at 2.49 and 2.42 seconds.

Percentage of dropbacks with 2.5 seconds or more to throw, Cousins ranks 7th at 56.2%. Josh Allen is #1 at 61.8%. The bottom 8 of this category are Stafford, Tannehill, Brees, Brady, Burrow, Rivers, Dalton, and Rapeyburger.

But Kirk's the issue right? Yep. Yep he is.

What is the % rollouts/play action per QB? It would be a much more meaningful comparison if those are separated out.

That’s a tall order. Average time in the pocket is as close to that as we’re going to get. We can get % of play action use but not pressure broken down to PA, roll outs, and designed pocket passes. That might make Kirk look better and it also might not. In a perfect world we’d also take out all plays were the QB scrambled successfully and then made a throw because that would skew that QB’s numbers to the positive.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 854

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 12:17:41 PM

Phil Riewer

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Whether you like Kirk or not....you still use a high draft pick on a QB. Hell GB has Rodgers and they did it. Philly did it.

At the very least you create competition and the loser gets traded.

Usually the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team....signing Mannion as the backup squelched that chatter.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/15/2021 12:19:27 PM >

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Post #: 855

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 1:45:38 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Whether you like Kirk or not....you still use a high draft pick on a QB. Hell GB has Rodgers and they did it. Philly did it.

At the very least you create competition and the loser gets traded.

Usually the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team....signing Mannion as the backup squelched that chatter.

I’ve been saying that for years.

Is it not repetitively obvious year after year that you draft/ acquire an elite QB you are highly likely to make deep playoff runs for many years?

Post #: 856

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 3:30:59 PM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Whether you like Kirk or not....you still use a high draft pick on a QB. Hell GB has Rodgers and they did it. Philly did it.

At the very least you create competition and the loser gets traded.

Usually the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team....signing Mannion as the backup squelched that chatter.

I’ve been saying that for years.

Is it not repetitively obvious year after year that you draft/ acquire an elite QB you are highly likely to make deep playoff runs for many years?

They should be drafting a QB Every year.

Sometimes high.

and if your starting QB balks at it and is perceived to not be able to handle the competition...that QB doesn't belong in the NFL.

The Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers when they still had Brett Favre. Now they have Rodgers and drafted Love. They are proactive. They've enjoyed nearly 30 years of HOF QBing as a result. They KNOW how important it is and they are PROACTIVE about it. The vikings in that same timeframe have started the likes of Spergeon Wynn, Brooks Bollinger, Matt Cassell, Christian Ponder, Chad Bradford, Todd Baumann, Gus Frerotte, Josh Freeman, Case Keenum etc etc etc etc. What has it gotten us? Sure some of those guys gave us a decent season here or there, but still. In the same time the Packers have essentially had two QBs, we've had dozens. and we have the lack of titles to show for it.

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Post #: 857

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 3:41:53 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

I'm still not sure what the Packers seen in Jordan Love and his 56 comp% but it did serve as lighter fluid for Rodgers to turn in an MVP year.

Agree about the PROACTIVE. It's a little different approach being the era apparent rookies wages are squandered on the bench.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 858

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 4:12:11 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Whether you like Kirk or not....you still use a high draft pick on a QB. Hell GB has Rodgers and they did it. Philly did it.

At the very least you create competition and the loser gets traded.

Usually the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team....signing Mannion as the backup squelched that chatter.

I’ve been saying that for years.

Is it not repetitively obvious year after year that you draft/ acquire an elite QB you are highly likely to make deep playoff runs for many years?

They should be drafting a QB Every year.

Sometimes high.

and if your starting QB balks at it and is perceived to not be able to handle the competition...that QB doesn't belong in the NFL.

The Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers when they still had Brett Favre. Now they have Rodgers and drafted Love. They are proactive. They've enjoyed nearly 30 years of HOF QBing as a result. They KNOW how important it is and they are PROACTIVE about it. The vikings in that same timeframe have started the likes of Spergeon Wynn, Brooks Bollinger, Matt Cassell, Christian Ponder, Chad Bradford, Todd Baumann, Gus Frerotte, Josh Freeman, Case Keenum etc etc etc etc. What has it gotten us? Sure some of those guys gave us a decent season here or there, but still. In the same time the Packers have essentially had two QBs, we've had dozens. and we have the lack of titles to show for it.

I have no problem with Case Keenum, Ponder, or Baumann....I have a problem with not drafting a guy in the first few rounds once every 2-3 years if not four.

We drafted Ponder and Teddy and it didn't work out....we drafted the wrong guys or they turned out wrong...it happens. Keep trying.

Maybe snag a guy in the 2nd or 3rd....(Russell, Hurts, etc.) and then you don't have to spend 1st round capital.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 859

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 4:17:10 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

Keep in mind this is Spielman we're talking about.

He simply sux at identifying qb's and G's.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 860

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 4:24:44 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I'm still not sure what the Packers seen in Jordan Love and his 56 comp% but it did serve as lighter fluid for Rodgers to turn in an MVP year.

Agree about the PROACTIVE. It's a little different approach being the era apparent rookies wages are squandered on the bench.

Strangely, "era" apparent kinda works for the normal "heir" apparent.

Post #: 861

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 5:31:54 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Per PFF for the 2020 regular season,

Average time to throw, Cousins ranks 8th, at 2.67 seconds. Josh Allen is #1 at 2.85 seconds. Tom Brady is #26 at 2.39 seconds.

Average time in pocket, Cousins ranks 14th, at 2.76 seconds. Lamar Jackson is #1 at 3.17 seconds. Drew Brees and Tom Brady are #25 and #27 at 2.49 and 2.42 seconds.

Percentage of dropbacks with 2.5 seconds or more to throw, Cousins ranks 7th at 56.2%. Josh Allen is #1 at 61.8%. The bottom 8 of this category are Stafford, Tannehill, Brees, Brady, Burrow, Rivers, Dalton, and Rapeyburger.

But Kirk's the issue right? Yep. Yep he is.

What is the % rollouts/play action per QB? It would be a much more meaningful comparison if those are separated out.

That’s a tall order. Average time in the pocket is as close to that as we’re going to get. We can get % of play action use but not pressure broken down to PA, roll outs, and designed pocket passes. That might make Kirk look better and it also might not. In a perfect world we’d also take out all plays were the QB scrambled successfully and then made a throw because that would skew that QB’s numbers to the positive.

It might not be possible with resources available. When Krause did it for 2018 and 2019 it did make a significant impact (adjusting time to throw down significantly). I think it's an important element, if the Vikings are leaders in rollouts (we were in 2019, haven't seen anything on 2020 - we did seem to do less of it) and that's adding time to time to throw, we should have that context if we are drawing conclusions about our QB and ultimately on his read progression/delivery the ball on time. To compare Cousins with Brees (just one example), who doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep anymore, has to get the ball out early, and Payton has done a magnificent job scheming for, doesn't add value to true evaluation of Cousins' strengths & Weaknesses. In my opinion.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 862

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 5:34:39 PM

Pager

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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Spielman and Zimmer have been derelict in their duties with QB development. Dennis Green did a fantastic job developing guys like Brad Johnson and Todd Bowman. And even if it was decided there were better options, that draft development turned into a solid return on investment when we flipped them for draft picks.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 863

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 6:03:57 PM

Bruce Johnson

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The Bears just acquired Wentz for their first this year and a fifth next year plus Nick Foles. I don't know clearly the salary cap implications yet. If he had stayed with the Eagles his cap number would have been in the mid 30's.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 864

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 6:18:03 PM

Bill Johanesen

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The Bears traded the Nos. 3, 67 and 111 picks, as well as a 2018 third-round pick, to the San Francisco 49ers in exchange for the second overall pick (Trubisky).

Post #: 865

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 7:26:55 PM

Pager

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Bears just acquired Wentz for their first this year and a fifth next year plus Nick Foles. I don't know clearly the salary cap implications yet. If he had stayed with the Eagles his cap number would have been in the mid 30's.

Wow! I'm heading over to Windy City SB to check out fans reactions. Bears and Rams GM really don't value first rounders like some.

This is BOLD. If it doesn't work it out, sets the Bears back quite a few years.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 866

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 7:41:49 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The Bears traded the Nos. 3, 67 and 111 picks, as well as a 2018 third-round pick, to the San Francisco 49ers in exchange for the second overall pick (Trubisky).

Maybe my all time favorite trade.

They traded up from 3 to 2 for Trubisky, while Mahomes went 10th and Watson 12th.

Oh, and that 67 pick was used on Alvin Kamara...

Post #: 867

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 7:44:06 PM

joejitsu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Bears just acquired Wentz for their first this year and a fifth next year plus Nick Foles. I don't know clearly the salary cap implications yet. If he had stayed with the Eagles his cap number would have been in the mid 30's.

Wow! I'm heading over to Windy City SB to check out fans reactions. Bears and Rams GM really don't value first rounders like some.

This is BOLD. If it doesn't work it out, sets the Bears back quite a few years.

Foles is going back to the eagles. Wonder where trubisky is going to end up? It is a real gamble for the bears.

Post #: 868

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 7:51:40 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Bears just acquired Wentz for their first this year and a fifth next year plus Nick Foles. I don't know clearly the salary cap implications yet. If he had stayed with the Eagles his cap number would have been in the mid 30's.

Still checking on this Bruce. Do you have a link?

I don’t see this even on ESPN

Post #: 869

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 7:53:28 PM

joejitsu

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I just heard that Vincent Jackson died. He was only 38 years old.

Post #: 870

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 8:18:00 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Bears just acquired Wentz for their first this year and a fifth next year plus Nick Foles. I don't know clearly the salary cap implications yet. If he had stayed with the Eagles his cap number would have been in the mid 30's.

Still checking on this Bruce. Do you have a link?

I don’t see this even on ESPN

I don’t think it’s legit. There appears to be only one person on Twitter talking about it. And he says it comes via Adam Schefter, but Adam had no mention of it.

Post #: 871

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2021 8:20:06 PM

David Levine

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Apparently it’s a bit of a crazy Bears fan reporting what was posted on a fake SportsCenter account.

Post #: 872

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2021 3:39:17 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Apparently it’s a bit of a crazy Bears fan reporting what was posted on a fake SportsCenter account.

Sorry I didn't confirm it. I do believe it will happen, but the Colts are probably bidding too, so we'll have to stand by.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 873

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2021 3:40:55 AM

Todd M

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DEL...

Post #: 874

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2021 5:13:44 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Interesting article on how the scouts got it wrong about Jefferson.

https://purpleptsd.com/whatscoutingreportsgotwrongjustinjefferson/

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 875