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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:19:47 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Sorry, Bradford doesn't compare to Brady. I can't recall, has Bradford ever won a playoff game ?

What would the Vikings' 2nd half rushing yards look like if Kurt played well in the 1st half of games, and had some leads against quality opposition, and some large leads against the bottom feeders ?

Also, the Vikings' 2nd half defense would be playing with leads, instead of opponents that are milking the clock, and doing as they please.


I'm all for drafting a QBTF and even trading for a QB upgrade (and giving up picks and having 2021 be a cap gut clear out).

But some of this non-sense is just non-sense. All the Cousin stats are from 2020 that I see being posted, not career or even the full three years Cousins has been with the Vikings. Cousins also [and the team] was terrible the first five weeks. Finally Cousins can only execute what's called. I was monstrously disappointed in Kubiak. Thought Stephanski did a way better job. If possible we got even MORE conservative in the first half of game in 2020. But let's put it all on Cousins


Also Brady is in conversation for GOAT. But the Bucs version, is vastly overrated by this crowd. He's not at the Brees point yet, but his accuracy has gone way down hill and deep passing is also deteriorating. Bucs oline is VASTLY superiors to ours, Their receiving weapons are better. And no reason to compare run games, because Arians only ran enough to keep em honest. Bucs defense had a Giants-like defense in the playoffs. The Bucs lifted up Brady, not the other way around.

Did everyone forget that Brady tried to GIFT wrap the NFCG in a way I've never seen Cousins do? Brady played like S*** in that game, was average in a couple of the other playoff games. Brady is nothing more than a compliment piece. To say Cousins couldn't do that? No way to prove it either way, but some of the takes here are pretty laughable.

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 951
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:30:31 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		How does the vikes poor defense explain cousin’s terrible first half stats? He had two of the best WRs in the game and the 2nd best RB. Shitty defense = more opportunities to score.

Oh and did I mention that out of whipping total of 10 TD passes thrown in first halves five of them were against the Lions?

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I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 952
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:33:25 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

How does the vikes poor defense explain cousin’s terrible first half stats? He had two of the best WRs in the game and the 2nd best RB. Shitty defense = more opportunities to score.

Oh and did I mention that out of whipping total of 10 TD passes thrown in first halves five of them were against the Lions?



Shitty defense = shitty TOP = equals fewer opportunities in the first half. Complimentary football, 3 and outs by the offense contribute. But my point is all of it is being put on Cousins.

< Message edited by Pager -- 2/25/2021 9:34:30 PM >

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Post #: 953
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:36:58 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 954
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:37:38 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.



Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind?

I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won).

The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins.

< Message edited by Pager -- 2/25/2021 9:42:07 PM >

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Post #: 955
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:42:09 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		Vikings were 9th best in third down conversion rate allowed.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 956
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:43:57 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.



Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind?

I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won).

The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins.


Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 957
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:44:04 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Vikings were 9th best in third down conversion rate allowed.



At something like 43%, correct? Which was a lot higher than previous years. What about 4th down? And first downs by defensive penalty. And again broken out in games we lost, first half/second half.

A better stat might be average yardage by down. If the defense is giving up a lot of first downs by second down, 3rd down conversion rate is a lot less meaningful.

< Message edited by Pager -- 2/25/2021 10:22:41 PM >

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Post #: 958
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:44:22 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.



Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind?

I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won).

The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins.


Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds.



Not in the first half.

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 959
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 9:46:40 PM   
Pager


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Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		David F, as always I appreciate your data driven approach! I've got an early morning and want to get to the mountains before traffic makes I70 unbearable. So I'm gonna check out.

Cheers.

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 960
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/25/2021 10:54:31 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

David F, as always I appreciate your data driven approach! I've got an early morning and want to get to the mountains before traffic makes I70 unbearable. So I'm gonna check out.

Cheers.


Thanks. Sometimes if I don't crunch numbers and rewatch things I have a tendency to have my memories tainted with emotion. Safe travels.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 961
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2021 4:29:33 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Status: offline 		https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/tyler-conklin-was-better-than-you-thought-last-year/

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Post #: 962
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/26/2021 10:55:31 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.



Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind?

I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won).

The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins.


Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds.



Now you're projecting. Unfortunately, not every team shares our antiquated football philosophy. I wish they did. Then coaching would matter less, and we could lock up Zimmer for life.

Time of possession, in a vacuum, is less than meaningless.

Chiefs and Buccaneers will certainly make time of possession more of a priority next season.....so they can get really good.

< Message edited by JT2 -- 2/26/2021 10:57:53 PM >
Post #: 963
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 8:35:56 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12170
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.



Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind?

I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won).

The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins.


Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds.



Now you're projecting. Unfortunately, not every team shares our antiquated football philosophy. I wish they did. Then coaching would matter less, and we could lock up Zimmer for life.

Time of possession, in a vacuum, is less than meaningless.

Chiefs and Buccaneers will certainly make time of possession more of a priority next season.....so they can get really good.

No matter what the philosophy we need to shore up the OLine.

Brady virtually untouched in SB and they roll.

Mahomes running for his life every other play and he looked human and the team looked average.

Horrible judgement by Speilman to not have an above average line with a $30M+ QB who can be above average if he is well protected.
Post #: 964
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 9:11:38 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Status: offline 		https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/

Really good article

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 965
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 11:52:40 AM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/

Really good article



Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found.

Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part.
  Post #: 966
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 1:00:45 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/

Really good article



Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found.

Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part.

Seems we need to do 2 things.

A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro.

B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 967
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 1:33:49 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/

Really good article



Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found.

Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part.

Seems we need to do 2 things.

A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro.

B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block.


I would add bring in someone to help access and identify talent.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 968
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 2:41:48 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		Assess not access. Ugh.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 969
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 2:54:42 PM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/

Really good article



Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found.

Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part.

Seems we need to do 2 things.

A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro.

B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block.



Boy I don’t know Bill, look at both Elflein, and Bradbury- Their calling card is/ was the ability to move around, get to the second and third levels in the run game.
Unfortunately both collapse in the pocket..
Hell I’d settle for a freakin road grater or two that hold up the pocket at this point Call me crazy.
Obviously the ability to do both is what we can’t seem to find.
  Post #: 970
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/27/2021 7:16:17 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/

Really good article



Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found.

Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part.

Seems we need to do 2 things.

A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro.

B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block.



Boy I don’t know Bill, look at both Elflein, and Bradbury- Their calling card is/ was the ability to move around, get to the second and third levels in the run game.
Unfortunately both collapse in the pocket..
Hell I’d settle for a freakin road grater or two that hold up the pocket at this point Call me crazy.
Obviously the ability to do both is what we can’t seem to find.


Once again the team contradicts itself with its philosophy. Resign the second-best RB in the league and then also try to cater the line to the running game. Why do both? A luxury of having such a talented RB would be that he can make up for less good run blocking. In the meantime put a QB back there that positively NEEDS good pass protection.

Fire spielman.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 971
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2021 10:45:28 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		If we have to improve our OL for Watson to be an improvement, then why get him?

Watson is an immediate improvement over Kirk, he can make every throw Kirk makes, his mobility is what makes Watson an improvement.

Kirk had the Vikings not even making the playoffs last year. Replace him with Watson, and the Vikes make the playoffs, but probably one and done.

After adding Watson, you change the OL coach, improve the guards, and a couple of defensive positions, and you have a team that can contend for a Super Bowl.


Make those same changes for Kirk, I am still not sure you have a SB contender. Maybe a team that wins 1 playoff game, or gets to the NFC Championship, and loses by a wide margin.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 972
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2021 10:49:24 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Did everyone forget that Brady tried to GIFT wrap the NFCG in a way I've never seen Cousins do? Brady played like S*** in that game, was average in a couple of the other playoff games. Brady is nothing more than a compliment piece. To say Cousins couldn't do that? No way to prove it either way, but some of the takes here are pretty laughable

As soon as Cousins leads the Vikings to a 28-10 3rd quarter lead in the NFC Championship, and 21-6 halftime SB lead, or a 31-9 3rd quarter SB lead, then you will have a point. Until then, your nonsense is laughable.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 973
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/28/2021 10:57:26 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Brady could afford to play worse than Cousins for part of the NFC Championship, because he built a nice halftime lead against a quality opponent on the road, in a playoff game.

That is NOT something you're likely to see with Kirk.

Brady must have made some good throws to get those leads. He certainly didn't throw INTs or poor throws in the 1st half, nor did he cough the ball up after getting hit in the 1st half.

Do you think Brady's throws that led to the Bucs getting early leads on GB and KC, helped the Bucs defense get turnovers against 2 of the best QBs in the league in Rodgers and Mahomes ?

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 974
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 6:55:44 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 63630
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline 		RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.

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Post #: 975
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