RE: General Vikes Talk

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talk

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk

Page: << < prev 38 39 [40] 41 42 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 7:01:06 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26365
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

If we have to improve our OL for Watson to be an improvement, then why get him?

Watson is an immediate improvement over Kirk, he can make every throw Kirk makes, his mobility is what makes Watson an improvement.

Kirk had the Vikings not even making the playoffs last year. Replace him with Watson, and the Vikes make the playoffs, but probably one and done.

After adding Watson, you change the OL coach, improve the guards, and a couple of defensive positions, and you have a team that can contend for a Super Bowl.

Make those same changes for Kirk, I am still not sure you have a SB contender. Maybe a team that wins 1 playoff game, or gets to the NFC Championship, and loses by a wide margin.

Before you get too giddy about Watson....what was the Texans record last year? One player does not make a team.

KC has a ton of speed at WR and on defense. Injuries to the Oline and Mahomes loss of mobility/turf toe and they still made it to the Super Bowl.

I would rate Wilson above Watson. In fact with the Vikings situation I would rate Fields and Lance as better options then Watson because if you trade Cousins you have no cap space. You draft a QB (Fields/Lance) you can still clear out some cap and fill some holes.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/1/2021 7:04:32 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 976

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 8:45:46 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.

He was the first African American to work as a sports analyst on national television. He came across as a really nice guy.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 977

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 9:11:18 AM

twinsfan

Posts: 62404
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.

He was the first African American to work as a sports analyst on national television. He came across as a really nice guy.

Legend.

He was on the Vikings Fox 9 shows fairly recently. Obviously wasn't at his peak anymore, but I still enjoyed listening to him.

_____________________________

Magic Number
Billy Hamilton 0

Post #: 978

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 11:19:13 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.

He was the first African American to work as a sports analyst on national television. He came across as a really nice guy.

Legend.

He was on the Vikings Fox 9 shows fairly recently. Obviously wasn't at his peak anymore, but I still enjoyed listening to him.

He had an important position at Macalester College in St. Paul, too. It might have been sports director.

Edit:. I confirmed that. He was also CEO of the local Big Brothers and Big Sisters. He had an impressive career after football and it's interesting that a lot of it was here in Minnesota.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 3/1/2021 11:22:49 AM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 979

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 12:35:40 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Did everyone forget that Brady tried to GIFT wrap the NFCG in a way I've never seen Cousins do? Brady played like S*** in that game, was average in a couple of the other playoff games. Brady is nothing more than a compliment piece. To say Cousins couldn't do that? No way to prove it either way, but some of the takes here are pretty laughable

As soon as Cousins leads the Vikings to a 28-10 3rd quarter lead in the NFC Championship, and 21-6 halftime SB lead, or a 31-9 3rd quarter SB lead, then you will have a point. Until then, your nonsense is laughable.

Do you think Brady's throws that led to the Bucs getting early leads on GB and KC, helped the Bucs defense get turnovers against 2 of the best QBs in the league in Rodgers and Mahomes ?

Vs GB, the INT vs Rodgers came in the first half, zero INTs in the second half. And the Jones fumble that gave the largest lead of the game (if I remember right) came on the second play of the second half. Bucs didn't generate any other TOs in that game. So no to your question vs GB. And the bucs defense harassed Mahomes ALL game.

TB's rating were: 104.3 vs WFT, 92.9 vs NO, and 73.8 vs GB. His best was against KC at 125.8. Again the Bucs defense played Giant-like throughout the playoffs. And I love how you delete out my points about the Bucs oline and weapons. But whatever floats your boat my friend.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 980

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 1:48:45 PM

marty

Posts: 12670
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

So Brady capitalized on the turnovers, and didn't make mistakes in the 1st half to put his team in the hole, and did this on the road against quality opposition, and he did the same thing in the SB, against a team that just won the SB the previous year.

There is NO guarantee Cousins would do that.

Only a fool would say any QB could do that. As none of Brady's throws looked terribly difficult, there are probably some that speculate Trubisky, Carr or Cousins could all havemade those throws, but just watching someone play in the clutch, doesn't make another player suddenly clutch.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 981

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 2:00:55 PM

marty

Posts: 12670
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I meant to say get turnovers AND slowed down Rodgers and Mahomes, which early leads help to do.

I am not going to lay it all on the Bucs OL being so much better than than the Vikes. Vikings are also very good at WR, and RB.

The Bucs OL looked better BECAUSE of Brady, having a quicker release, being decisive and making accurate throws makes a world of difference. They had WR targets with Winston, but some thought, if they could only improve the OL, that that was the real problem, when it may have been an inability to make quick, accurate, clutch throws against quality opposition, along with the ability to get your teammates to rally around you.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 982

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 2:08:01 PM

marty

Posts: 12670
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Before you get too giddy about Watson....what was the Texans record last year? One player does not make a team.

Before you get too giddy about putting down Watson, keeping in mind your point about 1 player not making a team, I would prefer we compare with the Houston team that had 2 great WRs [like the Vikes did last year], and that would be the 2 previous seasons, where despite a mediocre, even weak defense, the Texans were 11-5, and 10-6, winning their division both years.

However, I do agree with your point about Russell Wilson being a better choice, as Wilson has actually won a SB, and has made some nice comebacks in the playoffs. But, it sounds like the asking price for Wilson may be higher than that for Watson, and Wilson is 32, while Watson is 25.

< Message edited by marty -- 3/1/2021 2:09:29 PM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 983

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 2:33:53 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

So Brady capitalized on the turnovers, and didn't make mistakes in the 1st half to put his team in the hole, and did this on the road against quality opposition, and he did the same thing in the SB, against a team that just won the SB the previous year.

There is NO guarantee Cousins would do that.

Only a fool would say any QB could do that. As none of Brady's throws looked terribly difficult, there are probably some that speculate Trubisky, Carr or Cousins could all havemade those throws, but just watching someone play in the clutch, doesn't make another player suddenly clutch.

Make up your mind on which argument you are trying to push. Or better yet, do some research AND then make a claim. Like Brady made the oline better. Prove it. I can post some stats that back up my argument for the SB. Brady was pressured only 3 times (10%) on plays 2.5 or less while Mahomes was pressure 43% in the same situations. Bucs oline had 33 carries, 145 yards, 4.4 average, 1 TD.

Who guaranteed Cousins could do that?

Who said any QB could do that?

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

My original points: 1) I'm all for improving the Vikings QB situation. 2) Cousins, inaccurately imo, is getting all the blame for slow starts when it's multiple things.
3) Bucs had a vastly superior team to the Vikings last year in all phases except 1, the run game which was mitigated or caused by scheme (and as you can see the in the SB, ran it pretty effectively). And that the Bucs lifted Brady not the other way around.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 984

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 6:31:45 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27554
Status: offline

All I know is Tampa Bay went 7-9 without Brady, then the following year won the SB with Brady.

Post #: 985

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/1/2021 7:28:34 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

All I know is Tampa Bay went 7-9 without Brady, then the following year won the SB with Brady.

If that's your takeaway, cest la vie.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 986

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 8:52:58 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Brady brings a winning attitude and culture. I listen to a lot of talk radio and I heard "winning culture" time after time from current players, former players, current coaches, former coaches, and former GM's.

Never gave it much thought but after about 7 rings I think maybe there is something to it.

Contrast that to the Twins, losing about 18 playoff games in a row. There is something to losing culture also.

Post #: 987

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 10:35:55 AM

marty

Posts: 12670
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

All I know is Tampa Bay went 7-9 without Brady, then the following year won the SB with Brady.

That is the point, and it destroys all of stat boy Pager's arguments.

The Patriots were 12-4 with Brady, 7-9 last year without him.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 988

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 10:44:03 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44310
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

Tampa also added Gronk, Wirfs, Winfield and others to the starting lineup. Brady was the biggest piece, but he was far from the only piece. The Bucs built a great lineup around him.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 989

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 10:48:23 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22650
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Tampa also added Gronk, Wirfs, Winfield and others to the starting lineup. Brady was the biggest piece, but he was far from the only piece. The Bucs built a great lineup around him.

They held Kansas City to three field goals. That's the story of the game.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 990

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 10:48:47 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5705
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

So Brady capitalized on the turnovers, and didn't make mistakes in the 1st half to put his team in the hole, and did this on the road against quality opposition, and he did the same thing in the SB, against a team that just won the SB the previous year.

There is NO guarantee Cousins would do that.

Only a fool would say any QB could do that. As none of Brady's throws looked terribly difficult, there are probably some that speculate Trubisky, Carr or Cousins could all havemade those throws, but just watching someone play in the clutch, doesn't make another player suddenly clutch.

Make up your mind on which argument you are trying to push. Or better yet, do some research AND then make a claim. Like Brady made the oline better. Prove it. I can post some stats that back up my argument for the SB. Brady was pressured only 3 times (10%) on plays 2.5 or less while Mahomes was pressure 43% in the same situations. Bucs oline had 33 carries, 145 yards, 4.4 average, 1 TD.

Who guaranteed Cousins could do that?

Who said any QB could do that? You need to work on your reading comprehension.

My original points: 1) I'm all for improving the Vikings QB situation. 2) Cousins, inaccurately imo, is getting all the blame for slow starts when it's multiple things.
3) Bucs had a vastly superior team to the Vikings last year in all phases except 1, the run game which was mitigated or caused by scheme (and as you can see the in the SB, ran it pretty effectively). And that the Bucs lifted Brady not the other way around.

1) Ofcourse, nobody should dispute that.

2) Pretty much true.

3) Certainly, the Bucs were a superior team to the Vikings ... vastly on defense, OL and TE. And coaching.

To say that the Bucs would have won big game after big game, from getting the #5 seed in-season as an 11-5 above-average-but-not-really-good-team through winning the SB ... without a Big Game QB, is a feeble argument. That's not what happened in 2020.

Sure, the rest of the team absolutely rose to the occasion, and the Chiefs were not the same team that beat the Bucs during the season.

But 2020 ended with a proven big game player making reads, decisions, throws one necessary play after another, one big game after another.

Cousins is a good QB with a great arm. He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.

Post #: 991

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 11:11:42 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19068
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.

Neither has his coach.

Post #: 992

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 11:17:57 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44310
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.

Neither has his coach.

Don't waste your time Jeff. Coaching, worst O-line in football, worst defense in football, worst special teams in football are all irrelevant. It's Cousins. He couldn't over come all of that, ergo he has yet to prove he can win.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 993

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 11:26:59 AM

David F.

Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.

Neither has his coach.

Don't waste your time Jeff. Coaching, worst O-line in football, worst defense in football, worst special teams in football are all irrelevant. It's Cousins. He couldn't over come all of that, ergo he has yet to prove he can win.

Not the worst O-line in football, not the worst defense in football, not the worst special teams in football. Also no one is claiming Cousins is 100% of the problem. I personally just think he's not as good as his stats and I've put out plenty of situational season-long stats to support that. When you start using absolutes like 'worst this' and 'worst that' and 'people blame it all on Cousins' that really undermines the discussion. Cousins is decent. That's it.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 994

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 11:30:36 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5705
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

He has yet to prove he is a big game player in any sense of the term.

Neither has his coach.

Don't waste your time Jeff. Coaching, worst O-line in football, worst defense in football, worst special teams in football are all irrelevant. It's Cousins. He couldn't over come all of that, ergo he has yet to prove he can win.

Not the worst O-line in football, not the worst defense in football, not the worst special teams in football. Also no one is claiming Cousins is 100% of the problem. I personally just think he's not as good as his stats and I've put out plenty of situational season-long stats to support that. When you start using absolutes like 'worst this' and 'worst that' and 'people blame it all on Cousins' that really undermines the discussion. Cousins is decent. That's it.

Very good post.

Post #: 995

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 11:42:18 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44310
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 996

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 11:50:07 AM

David F.

Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.

100% cousins gets more blame than he should. He’s the QB after all. #8? On his jersey for sure.

Edit - vikes o line was ranked 28. Not last.

Edit again - 28 in pass. 26 overall

< Message edited by David F. -- 3/2/2021 11:54:34 AM >

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 997

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 12:04:08 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.

100% cousins gets more blame than he should. He’s the QB after all. #8? On his jersey for sure.

Edit - vikes o line was ranked 28. Not last.

Edit again - 28 in pass. 26 overall

Despite not too shabby play from the tackles. That's I was saying the interior offensive line was the worst in NFL history.

Here's a video that I enjoyed watching. It was interesting because of the intensity of the crowd noise (something I really miss) and because our team had a number of stars and they all showed up big time.

Take the time to watch it. You won't be disappointed.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1013205819045424

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 998

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 12:05:30 PM

David F.

Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

You know who had a worse line than us in 2020? The cowboys. They managed to go 6-10 vs our 7-9. Oh yeah, and they LOST their starting QB. Still beat us with our starter though.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 999

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/2/2021 12:15:51 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5705
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Vikings O-line graded out as the worst pass blocking line in football. I apologize. The Vikings defense ranked 30 out of 32 teams, not dead last. And the special teams were only a below average #21. Mea Culpa. Cousins, meanwhile was the #8 QB.

You can't seriously deny that despite putrid play (by any reasonable standard) of these units, that Cousins draws a disproportionate amount of the finger pointing and negative commentary.

I’m not sure if this includes me, I just stated that he does get unfairly critisized two posts above.

That being said, he has had plenty of opportunities in his career, game in and game out, to prove he’s a gamer. Plenty.

He has a lot of skill for sure. You can not seriously deny that he is uneven, at best, in tight situations?

Post #: 1000